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Harvester
Moderators: Tiberian Odyssey Active Staff
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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject:  Harvester Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Harvester




Strength: Strong
Armour: Medium
Speed: Average
Cost: 1100


The Harvester is a vital tool in utilizing Tiberium for funds. Harvesters can safely negotiate Tiberium infested areas and are equipped with specialised tools and machinery used for the collecting and temporary storage of Tiberium. The Nod harvester is more focused for speed of harvesting and general vehicle movement.

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Last edited by Morpher on Sat May 02, 2009 10:26 am; edited 3 times in total

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the GDI harvester thread you said that the Nod harvester costs 1100. Is the price here just a typo?
Other than that, I think that this design is one of the best so far, and the voxelist should be proud.
But won't the harvesting look strange without any animation, I'm pretty sure you can't have animations for harvesting - or am I wrong?

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daTS
Mr. Moosey


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Corrected the price.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow. This one looks just like an insect. Very interesting design. Great work!

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Destiny
President


Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks pretty frail...but it's fine. Smexy.

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Vefbl4
General


Joined: 07 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bravo!TSO has the best voxels imo. Smile

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I Love the design. It looks a lot like something Harv would make.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Looks pretty frail

Yeah, is there a way to bulk it up a bit - just so it doesn't look so spindly?

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Titan
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Orac wrote:
Quote:
Looks pretty frail

Yeah, is there a way to bulk it up a bit - just so it doesn't look so spindly?


It's supposed to look frail, that's why it's only 1100 creds. Wink

The Nod harvesters are going to be fast, but will have less storage space and armour plating than the bulky and slow GDI version.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it actually looks like it could support some kind of stealth technology.
How about giving it weak armor but fast speed and stealth capability?

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Titan
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's a nice idea, but not very balanced. This is a cheap regular unit supposed to be deployed en-masse for all kinds of harvesting operations on any tech level, we do not want to give Nod a cloaked harvester when you're playing on some small map with a techlevel set to 3 or 4 or something where you have no sensor arrays. Wink

The reason the same harvesters are shared by the two factions in tiberium C&C games is because it automatically removes the need for balancing the economy of the two sides as they are completely equal. In TO we wanted to change that a little and this is the result. Smile

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It does mean though that Nod players up against people who don't Harvester harass will benefit more. Cheaper AND more income-per-minute etc. Unless you balanced it out perfectly with the Tiberium capacity.

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Titan
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's what we said, they have much less storage. Also, since you usually have a lot of starting credits, the initial difference will be overcome rather quickly.

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Machine
Commander


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A steady low cash income is better than a big cash income in chunks. This is not a problem in games that you must pay the for unit before it starts building, like warcraft and starcraft, but it is in games like the command and conquer series.
The reason for this is that Nod players can have a steady production, but GDI players would need to wait a while while they're without cash, having their production stopped. The result of this is that the Nod player is able to churn out units faster than the GDI player; if you don't believe me ask Judeau, as we came to this conclusion while balancing TSD.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The result of this is that the Nod player is able to churn out units faster than the GDI player

Which almost fits GDI and Nod. GDI would have to play carefully - building defences and surveying the area. While Nod would count on speed and stealth, striking out quickly before GDI could respond.

Also, generally Nod have been less well armoured, stealth and speed making up for the lack of armour.

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Titan
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You have a valid and very interesting point, but you fail to understand the reason behind the difference: A player's economy is always one of its most fragile components. Nod goes for high-risk, high-return, GDI goes for safety.

You don't just barge in and destroy a GDI harvester, it's one armoured beast, you'll need an entire division of anti-armour units to even be effective, so the GDI harvesters are very well protected from say, an early-game attack on the player's economy.

The Nod harvesters need to have access to the right amount of refineries. A big queue from several harvesters in a cluttered up base may severely hamper the efficiency of a Nod economy.

That's something you and Judeau did not take in account apparently. You know that harvesters will have to travel further away from a base later in-game, right? Well, you can send in a heap of cheap Nod harvies, but the psychological effect triggered by such an event is that the opposing player sees a chance and comes hopping in with some anti-armour units just because it's such a juicy target.

The difference between harvesters was not made up to get two different approaches of gathering tiberium, but two ways of managing the entire economy in a dangerous environment. It was not just about speed, storage and price, but also about armour, so this goes way further than just a steady flow of cash.

Besides... It's... You know... Cool? Very Happy

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Besides... It's... You know... Cool?

Can't argue with that ...uhh... logic.

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Titan
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Orac wrote:
Can't argue with that ...uhh... logic.


Very Happy

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Machine
Commander


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I perfectly know that, so don't worry. I was just pointing it out, if you haven't noticed a possible unbalance, specially in the late game where tiberium is not abundant.
Also forgot to comment on the voxel; you got a nice piece of art right there, probably my favorite Nod unit in TO so far (design wise).

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Image Updated.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Image is...dark....

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Image is...cool...

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Destiny
President


Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, love the updates. More worthy to be annhilated. #Tongue

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