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 Forum index » Featured Tools » Voxel Section Editor III
Voxel Section Editor III 1.4 Plans
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:31 am    Post subject:   Voxel Section Editor III 1.4 Plans
Subject description: After thinking about recoding it and make VXLSE IV, I've changed my plans...
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I've spent a couple of hours from the last 30 days recoding the program to make VXLSE IV with multi voxel support, import and export 3D objects (.obj mainly), multi voxel preview and few other things, but honestly, if I do that, I'll fail in my final project. So, let's keep it simple:


Here's 1.4 roadmap so far:

-> Improve auto normals and rendering (objective from my final project)
-> Integrate most of OS HVA Builder features as long as the user has the 3D preview window opened.
-> (Optional, if I'm really excited to do this one and ViPr allows): Make an interface to integrate it with ViPr 3ds2vxl's tool, allowing users to import .3ds file and edit them quick and fast.
-> (Optional, if I'm really excited to do this one): Export voxel to .obj.



Any other suggestion that doesn't require a recode of the program? Go ahead and post it.


(Note: regarding VXLSE IV, it should become another program)

Last edited by Banshee on Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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Team Black
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, those would be some schmecksy additions..

I posted a suggestion for a tool that might be handy for us voxellers
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've started coding it. There is a new directory in the SVN for it and so far, some files are being recoded. The idea is to get a code that is more oriented to object to reduce memory leaks so far and make coding easy. Once some files are recoded, I'll move to the features like darker and lighter, a fix for the flood and fill for normals and the features mentioned above.

The recent recode of the HVA class should help me a lot on adding HVA Builder features into it.

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Team Black
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we can definitely use a better voxel program.
Good luck, Banshee!
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, more improvement! Last time we got [ctrl]+[L] wich was awsome, helped me a lot! A new interface could be useful, or at least a costemizable interface. Oh, and remove "remove redundant voxel", it's a useless feature!
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interface is a very low priority at the moment. Remember that I need the render and autonormals improved to graduate or at least complete my final project.

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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exporting to OBJ would be simple. Just need to export what you render, except work out which faces of the cube's are hidden.
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, that ain't hard. But I wanna a better model than that.

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Team Black
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one more small suggestion, could you hotkey the "Nudge" commands for us?
it would save the trouble of selecting the option each & every time, as sometimes I'm nudging stuff for like 10 pixels on each axis
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Lt Albrecht
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And a rotate tool, I don't know how may people have put their voxel the wrong way round and can't rotate the whole thing the right way... Like SS's Invader MBT originally
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Team Black wrote:
one more small suggestion, could you hotkey the "Nudge" commands for us?
it would save the trouble of selecting the option each & every time, as sometimes I'm nudging stuff for like 10 pixels on each axis


Sounds like a fair deal. I've uploaded a revision that has it working. Use shift ctrl and the arrows and have fun.
http://svn.ppmsite.com/filedetails.php?repname=OS%20Voxel%20Tools&path=%2Fvxlseiii14x%2Fvxlse_III.exe&rev=0&sc=0


Lt Albrecht wrote:
And a rotate tool, I don't know how may people have put their voxel the wrong way round and can't rotate the whole thing the right way... Like SS's Invader MBT originally


Use OS HVA Builder for it.

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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you banshee, a small feature, but it saves babies!!! and time Wink
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update on the AN:
My normals, based on 5.6


AN 8,2 standar out of the box Wink

Niether one gives a good result. The 5.6 is way to smooth at the "shark fin" at the top, but the 8.2 is full of black normals. I also tried to deselect "trest diss-continued" thingi, same result. Idealy, I would be avible to select different parts of a voxel, and use different AN on different parts. But your wish is a "perfect" AN, you still have work to do. I belive this AN 8.2 is good for basic voxels, but complex voxels, like the one above, you can see for yourself the difference Wink

EDIT:

results in

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Last edited by Dupl3xxx on Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:32 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for testing it, buddy. Yea, I have to take a look at these black issues on AN8.2 and what could be causing it.

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Dupl3xxx
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whatever it takes in the quest of perfect normals!
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Paranoia
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Joined: 04 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never given this a thought before, but there must be some bloody complicated physics behind making autonormals.

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, it is a lot of maths Wink.

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MT
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Voxel Section Editor III 1.4 Plans Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:

-> (Optional, if I'm really excited to do this one and ViPr allows): Make an interface to integrate it with ViPr 3ds2vxl's tool, allowing users to import .3ds file and edit them quick and fast.


It would be awesome if you did this, as 3ds2vxl doesn't work for me. (I don't know why, says its missing some .dll)

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Dupl3xxx
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when i think about the AN, it seems whenever a voxel cover another voxel, black nomals are garantied. However, this is only true for AN 7.1 and abov. 5.6 doesn't have that bug. I will test my theory asap!
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that happens, then, I'll have to revise my ray tracing code (which is still suspicious, to be honest).

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MT
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any recent progress?

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been rewriting the renderer and I wrote a lot of stuff, however, it is a very complex this, which will require more hard work. The new renderer is quite far from rendering anything at the moment.

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Dupl3xxx
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voxel cover wasn't the problem... wierd...
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ViPr
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Voxel Section Editor III 1.4 Plans Reply with quote

MT wrote:
Banshee wrote:

-> (Optional, if I'm really excited to do this one and ViPr allows): Make an interface to integrate it with ViPr 3ds2vxl's tool, allowing users to import .3ds file and edit them quick and fast.


It would be awesome if you did this, as 3ds2vxl doesn't work for me. (I don't know why, says its missing some .dll)


this will solve your DLL problem:
put the files from these zips in the folder with the 3ds2vxl.exe

http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.13-win32.zip
http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_image/release/SDL_image-1.2.6-win32.zip

Banshee it would be cool if you could make a 3d model editor, which i think is probably too difficult, and then users can just hit a voxelize button and the model will be voxelized using my program, skipping over the front end and everything, and then once it is done, the voxel appears automatically in your editor. i have no idea if this is technically possible though.

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Mortecha
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ A tool like this would have been perfect a good year or 2 ago. And the concept for a tool like this is a brilliant one. But I can't see a greater number of people using it than there are already to justify the work on such a tool.
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr, I was actually working towards this kind of direction. The idea is that, with some progress, we can allow people to design the geometry before, when creating the section. Then, they voxelize it to texture it. The difference here is that I'd allow voxels to be converted back to geometry, having a tool that creates and edits voxels for old games and models for newer games such as Generals and Red Alert 3 as well.

Of course, the main challenge for me is to convert the voxel back to model, since you've already done a good job at the opposite operation. Once I get a geometry, I'm aware that I'd also need to find out a way to tone down the amount of polys, otherwise, the tool will be useless for newer games.

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ViPr
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee, if you want to convert voxels to polygons i would suggest metaballs but i can't see many people wanting to do this. what you are suggesting is extremely complicated and i bet nobody in this community will care but i think it would be useful for your career in programming.

by the way, i should mention to anyone undertaking a programming project now that OpenCL is arriving soon (summer 2009 perhaps) and i'm not sure if it will mean programmer's will have to majorly overhaul their work to benefit from it.

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MT
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Joined: 23 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Voxel Section Editor III 1.4 Plans Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
MT wrote:
Banshee wrote:

-> (Optional, if I'm really excited to do this one and ViPr allows): Make an interface to integrate it with ViPr 3ds2vxl's tool, allowing users to import .3ds file and edit them quick and fast.


It would be awesome if you did this, as 3ds2vxl doesn't work for me. (I don't know why, says its missing some .dll)


this will solve your DLL problem:
put the files from these zips in the folder with the 3ds2vxl.exe

http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.13-win32.zip
http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_image/release/SDL_image-1.2.6-win32.zip

Banshee it would be cool if you could make a 3d model editor, which i think is probably too difficult, and then users can just hit a voxelize button and the model will be voxelized using my program, skipping over the front end and everything, and then once it is done, the voxel appears automatically in your editor. i have no idea if this is technically possible though.


I am very grateful for the solution to this! Thanks a lot!

Now I just got to get better with 3d (right now all I can do is make warped out geometric shapes)...

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
Banshee, if you want to convert voxels to polygons i would suggest metaballs but i can't see many people wanting to do this. what you are suggesting is extremely complicated and i bet nobody in this community will care but i think it would be useful for your career in programming.

by the way, i should mention to anyone undertaking a programming project now that OpenCL is arriving soon (summer 2009 perhaps) and i'm not sure if it will mean programmer's will have to majorly overhaul their work to benefit from it.


Most people are tipping me with metaballs or something based on octrees, but I'll try something with the least amount of vertices possible, getting as close as possible to quads or multiples triangles per vertex, based on the value of the normals its neighborhood. The idea is to get it as close as possible to the 3D geometry used in games, rather than detailed smooth objects. I know that this method would be expensive for a voxel editor, which is why it would be restricted to high LOD previews or conversion to 3D geometries.

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crevio
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know what would be great is an extra preview window for units that require multiple parts, that way you can see the main body while building the turret or arms and legs, and so forth. and has this version been released yet?

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can techically preview that already by importing the section from other vxl files.. and then, use the 3D Preview window to see them. Once you are done, removing these added sections.

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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My progress so far, after one year and 4 months:

Quote:
Here's 1.4 roadmap so far:

-> Improve auto normals and rendering (Under Construction)
-> Integrate most of OS HVA Builder features as long as the user has the 3D preview window opened. (Not Done)
-> Make an interface to integrate it with ViPr 3ds2vxl's tool, allowing users to import .3ds file and edit them quick and fast. (DONE)
-> Export voxel to .obj. (Under Construction)


I've lost a lot of time with the rendering and .obj export because of my final project (which switched to exporting 3D models from voxels).

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Orac
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think that integrating OS HVA Builder features should be quite low on the list of things to do because the community already has OS HVA Builder.
Autonormal improvement is good, but I'd really like to see the ability to export to .obj. This one makes things much easier for things like deploying vehicles - new Tick tank, Mob. Sens. Array, etc.

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Tony
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orac wrote:
Personally, I think that integrating OS HVA Builder features should be quite low on the list of things to do because the community already has OS HVA Builder.


I couldn't agree more.

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Cranium
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think better normals and rendering should be next on the to do list, IMO.
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