Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:01 am Post subject:
C&C4, PPM and how things work here.
Subject description: We'll ascend later, Kane.
I've seen requests for a forum to discuss C&C4 and many topics spammed at random forums about the game. So, I'd like to introduce the C&C Chat forum. There you can discuss any C&C game, including Tiberian Twilight and Renegade (games without modding forums here).
Unlike Red Alert 3, we are not creating modding forums for C&C4 for a very simple reason: there is nothing you can do with it, really. You can open the .BIG files with OS BIG Editor, but there is nothing useful to customize with it. The INI files that the old SAGE engine games used to have are totally gone. And this game does not come with a world builder either.
According to Sam Bass, there is a very slim possibility that World Builder and the Mod SDk for C&C4 will be created, because it is low on EALA's priority list and they do not have enough resources to work on it yet. It is really a pitty, since the game needs some tweaks (*hint* increase the damn pop cap or wipe it *hint*).
So, we'll only have modding forums for TT here, if EALA ever releases the Mod SDK for the game. Thanks for your comprehension and enjoy the game. If you need any tips or get stuck on any map from the campaign, post a topic in the C&C Chat and you'll get helped. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject:
There is a lot of talent in that studio, but unfortunately, they are forced to create games a bit too quickly, which seriously deteriorates the final result of their products. QUICK_EDIT
Wow, I did not know that they were not planing on releasing a world builder... Thats just one of those things that is kind of a traditional "give me" when a game is released. There really needs to be one too because, there is so few maps that come with the game as is and its just not enough.
This game just more and more pathetic. I do not know how much more week ass support can come with this game. Theres already been tons of technical issues with the game, I kind of wish this game was not released... _________________ MadHQ's Graveyard - Click here!
(Permissions) - (F.A.Q.) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:35 am Post subject:
So no SDK or map editor I had a feeling that would happen. Looks like CNC 4 will not have the longevity of the other games. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also, if EA is too restricted with deadlines to make a decent game than the franchise should be sold to a different developer. _________________
For all the latest updates, visit my site. http://www.freewebs.com/toadnuke/ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere in rulesmd.ini
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject:
The ending of the whole C&C series definitely deserved a much better game.
I can bet it won't even participate for the game of the year. Sad way to close the saga. _________________
When it's time for them to stick to the things that made C&C great they change everything . . . but this isn't the C&C4 rant thread so get it back on topic. QUICK_EDIT
Some programmer still remained to fix bugs etc, also WB is used by the developers, they just need to dumb it down a bit for the user.
Also I think its really funny that everyone complains about no Mod SDK. Seriously, some years back a community had to develop their own tools like extractors to mod a game and everyone was/is happy. If someone wants to mod a game, why not write your own tools now? Has everyone become lazy? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also I think its really funny that everyone complains about no Mod SDK. Seriously, some years back a community had to develop their own tools like extractors to mod a game and everyone was/is happy. If someone wants to mod a game, why not write your own tools now? Has everyone become lazy?
That and the lack of people capable of making one(s). FinalSun was released 7-8 years ago and no one has updated the program since. People are satisfied with it, even though it still has major flaws/room for improvement. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Some programmer still remained to fix bugs etc, also WB is used by the developers, they just need to dumb it down a bit for the user.
Also I think its really funny that everyone complains about no Mod SDK. Seriously, some years back a community had to develop their own tools like extractors to mod a game and everyone was/is happy. If someone wants to mod a game, why not write your own tools now? Has everyone become lazy?
It's not quite the same now, back then things like INI files were just raw editable files. Now you need to compile them etc. so although you could extract them you could do nothing with them without a lot of reverse engineering which is just not worth the effort. QUICK_EDIT
God, EA and it's rush bullshit, I'd love to see another ztyping epic release like BC2. They need to work on games to meet quality like BC2 >_> _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
They fired the staff like MONTHS ago. Shit was everywhere. Sam Bass & co? They're are new places or looking for jobs. This game is dead. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
yay, xpack most likely to be outsourced to india and available online only! _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
It's not quite the same now, back then things like INI files were just raw editable files. Now you need to compile them etc. so although you could extract them you could do nothing with them without a lot of reverse engineering which is just not worth the effort.
The file formats now are just a bunch of values stuffed in one file. If you can extract them you can save them in that style too. That's how I Mod KW... QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, everyone is like "They fired the devs?" but in fact they fired them even before the release (assuming it was pretty much done at that point). QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject:
I don't think AltomareXD has a good point. These devs do have a reputation and they use the projects they've worked on in their curriculums to get a new job. So, if I were them, I wouldn't screw up any game. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere in Germany
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject:
I think it went similar to this:
EALA boss: "OK, you'll make C&C4 now. You have 8 months. You need to attract new players, so you have to make the game more accessible and casual-gamer-friendly, while keeping the fan-base. Oh yeah, and the budget for movies is cut to 20% of what you had for previous C&Cs, we have to keep production costs as low as possible. If you succeed, you're allowed to stay in the company."
Sam Bass: "But..."
EALA Boss: "Now hurry up." QUICK_EDIT
Sam Bass didn't deserve his role anyway though. His "handling" of KW as the lore guy was.. beyond terrible. So much established canon and contradictions and blah blah blah. I'm sorry, but as people go, Sam Bass was [to me] a huge disaster to C&C. I have had long debates with Muldrake on the issue and He and I do agree to a point.
The other curious thing that I pointed out with Generals and the development after thereof with the rest of EA's RTS games that [take this how you want to] no-one paid attention to, was that the staff was ALWAYS changing between games.
Now, I have worked in the same job for 3 years. I've worked the the same field for 6. If there is one thing I can do backwards in my sleep, it's my job. This is because I have had so much time and practice at doing my job. Why on earth was the development team [and exec producer as well] changing almost EVERY single title? There is absolutely no logic to that design. I got used to trawling through .ini files and seeing refrences to Dustin Browder, Adam Isgreen and the gang at Westwood.
I'm not saying Westwood did a good job everyjob BUT at least they knew what they were doing. They had good practice and good knowledge and most of all, people who had a job stayed in that job. I think the noticable decline of C&C in general began with this staff BS. I also think it went down even more with the leaving of Dustin Browder. The guy wasn't perfect or brilliant, but I think he was the last great Bullwark of Westwood Ingenuinety that kept EA Titles somewhat good [His insights and work on the Inside the Battle videos about new ini developments, the Palantir etc were pure BRILLIANCE]. That is now long gone with 9 month dev cycles, quick pushes and once it's out it's gone.
Re: Modding Tools. It's easy to say "back then the community made what it needed" when "back then" there wasn't the levels of encryption, protection and general Anti-Modification sentiment that there is now. Much like MW2's removal of the console, I think EA with C&C3 wanted to essentially control our experience and stop us tailor making and changing it around. I guarantee you that if all the files weren't .cdata and all that BS there would be a far more active modding community. EA engineered it this way and we all should have seen it coming.
And the excuse EA pulled that "having the files this way lowers loading times and stability" is just pure BS. I would gladly have a game load in a minute that I can fully customise rather than have a game load in 10 seconds that I couldn't.
</Rant>
Here's to hoping WB is sort of alright. QUICK_EDIT
Um, if I remember right... mix files were unheard of before Dune ergo they were encrypted. Its the same thing here bro. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I am writing tools for KW myself. This "its encrypted, we can't do anything" is just BS.
Find me a something that lets you start to modify the game then. JonWil has still only managed to extract certain file types and whatnot and he is one of the best next to Olaf.
Quote:
Um, if I remember right... mix files were unheard of before Dune ergo they were encrypted. Its the same thing here bro.
There's a difference between an unknown file type and an encrypted unknown file type QUICK_EDIT
I am writing tools for KW myself. This "its encrypted, we can't do anything" is just BS.
Find me a something that lets you start to modify the game then. JonWil has still only managed to extract certain file types and whatnot and he is one of the best next to Olaf.
[...]
Uh right, and all these had something to prove they are able to do it? They did not. I on the other hand already released screenshots of changing objects able to built from the CY and also released a mod that disables the secondary objectives _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Ju-Jin: Fair enough, but hardly mod worthy. I am not belitting your efforts, but rather just implying that we are back at C&C95 modding efforts here atm. There's a long way to go to being sucessful.
Titan: I walk the middle ground evenly. I am not being entirely skeptical as I have seen the tools JonWil has put out and I know of some efforts [at the time I was unaware of Ju-Jin's however]. There is however a limit to how optimistic you can be. I retain hope, but not a huge amount of hope. QUICK_EDIT
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C&C4, PPM and how things work here.
