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PPM 2012 free for all SHP competition (preparation)
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Joshy
Schwing!


Joined: 13 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
How about the following: no judges, no rating. Everyone sends a SHP and then they will be made public in a big package. Thus no winner, no loser and no one complaining about bad judging


Removing the competitive factor removes the drive behind making anything for this 'competition'.

Quote:
1. I'm not even sure i'll take part
2. I've never "set" anything, i just made a proposition. And i'm always open for improvement suggestions.


1. k
2. Then don't base the final scoring off of percentages derived from what you think is hard or easy to make

I've had an idea for how the public can take part in helping score the competition:

I think it would be interesting to make a special thread that is private to only the entrants and one or a few special 'moderators' of this competition. In this thread the entrants are required to post up their entries as they progress in making them. Showing how much work they are putting into what they will eventually submit.

Once the work is posted the select 'moderator' of that thread (or moderators) can bring the work in progress shots to a special thread where anyone in the forum can view. However, nobody is allowed to know who's work is what and thus try to eliminate biasing. Additionally, entrants should not post in the public thread at all.

When the deadline rolls around making a public voting where people vote on the entries based upon the work effort seen in the work in progress shots and the final product. IE - which they would most likely use in their own mod.

After the public voting is taken care of it might be cool to select a panel of judges. This panel would comprise of people whom have worked on or led a mod which are also not an entrant in the competition.

During the whole competition the identity of the entrants would be kept a secret. Only their works shown and final products. Once everything is done then the entrants are finally revealed and matched to their respective entry.

I dunno, I think it's a more interesting take on how to try and judge this.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds interesting. But i fear that this is a bit overkill.
It would need a lot of work from banshee, the moderators and can also become a bit confusing if one or more contestants work on several SHPs (because i wouldn't like to restrict the contestant to only one SHP: e.g. a full ingame interface consists of select.shp, pip.shp, mouse etc and there it would be good to judge each shp on its own)

I also don't like that the amount of work is directly judged. e.g. someone could post more pictures than necessary and take deliberately more time just to give the impression he is putting a lot more work in it than he is actually doing. e.g. start a building, show a lot of progress, scrap most of the design, start again etc, which would give endless "amount of work"-points.

But lets see what the others say.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well clearly starting again from scratch would return the "amount of work" to zero. Since you'd have done no work on the current iteration of the SHP.

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Kcirevam
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think we should start a poll with two options:
1- Using LKO's per shp type percentages (am with this)
2- Use the no winner no loser way, that way it won't be a contest but more like a PPM 3d modelers wake up call.

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Cranium
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How about running a poll? Whatever the majority votes for, then thats what it will be.

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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Joshy's idea sounds great to me, only thing I'd change is instead of posting as we create, is to post a max of 4-6 pics including progress of the SHP or other completed SHPs, posted with the final. (Makes for a more understandable thread IMO)

And a definite no on removing the competition factor, even if the prize is a picture of Banshee (and who honestly wants that #Tongue), people have to be trying to win something.

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Kcirevam
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wanna win people saying "Wow that's very original", that's enough for me, not to mention that you would earn more respect the more quality you show, anyways am totally against showing WIP, even if there was a limit, I really want to post more than 6 final products, maybe we should make this a competition of who can make as much as possible quality work, a mega pack of thirst making shps should wake the modders up for good.

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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nah then it would become all about quantity over quality

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vladek515
Grenadier


Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Location: Yellow zone

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with team black. Then the guys with very much spare time would have an advantage on those who don't.

And I'm just in for a try on shp's and don't even care if I win or not

Maybe it is a possibility to judge the submissions and after that make a big pack of all submissions

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Kcirevam
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Let's trial and error?. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want to question why people think making s unit(s) such a hard work when it comes to being a RA2/TS shp.
I actually planned on trying out what they meant, so I challenged myself, how long would It take of time to make an infantry unit, It took me only 13:26 minutes to model the infantry, 3 minutes to pick good textures from cgtextures.com, 8 minutes to unwrap UVW and apply the texture.
I already had an animated infantry so I only fitted the model into a biped and imported anims.
The not yet rendered or converted product took an exact 24:56 minuets.
if you've seen my pill box attempt in Media hut, that took me more than an hour modeling the model and all the turret's, then when I rendered I spent
3 minutes for nothing, because I had forgotten to position the model into its foundation's grid lines
I had tried making it fit with the "resize canvas" tool but that ate up my time even more.

The only thing that makes a unit take a long time is the rendering, that for people with high level processor and 3d card (VGA) wouldn't count.

The gest of that talk, you should know these:

- Infantry for ra2 don't need any detail, actually, a simple human figure with Cgtextures.Com's help makes an acceptable output shp file.

- Big parts are the only thing seen in the final product, things such as the gun, the helmet, the armor plates on the shoulders etc.

- in 3dsmax, If you pre-set your biped then model on top of it, you can avoid problems with the physique modifier.

- The program(s) used to model the unit each have pros and cons, even if it's a newer version versus an older one, for example, using 3dsmax 7, the infantry took me 3 minutes more than it took me to remake it with 3dsmax9, but then again that might have been because am used to doing this unit now.

In short words I am with LKO, but at the same time am not against WIP shot's.
Since this is only the preparations, am going to make you guys feel how it looks like to be posting WIP shot's.
I know that this unit am using is already disqualified, but that doesn't matter to me, the contest hasn't been set yet
So let's try it out.

====================================================
This here is my imaginary of a moderator(s) post.
====================================================
Updates on the 2012 contest! , a participant has been working on a WIP unit that will be used as a concept for its final product, this here is a cartoonish style prototype model which will be used to make either a pilot or a gsg9 trooper, the modeler says that it will have the navy seals functionality of swimming.
The work so far shows a primitive model untextured yet, even though it's just a concept
It could actually make a good TS .shp file if only down sized (since TS has lower details than RA2).

The author claims that he/she has made this model in 25 minuets.
The preview below shows the current render from all viewports.
(you can see the pic at the bottom of the post).
----------------------------------------------------

So let's say what i found out of the pros and cons of the WIP shot style:
Pros:
- There will be more posts, hence more people viewing them, and replying as well, it won't be a dead thing until the end.
- More room for improving your models, depending on the feedback people give.

Cons:
- People might not like the WIP since it's going to be worlds apart from the final SHP.
- You might show some "weakness?" in modelling if you have to keep doing WIP shots
- For me, the WIP shots might be just 1 WIP shot then the final shp preview, I can't keep pausing to take screen shots all the time.
- Unless you were honest, you can say that it took you X days, while you could've done the model in a few hours, actually you should say how many days and how many hours per day, or make a video showing how long it took.



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Cranium
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I dont think posting work as we go along is such a great idea. especially if some of us post some reall awsome stuff. IMO that would discourage others from joining the comp and/or make people drop out.

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Kcirevam
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Agreed.

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Cranium
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anymore news for this?

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Nikademis Von Hisson
General


Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Wilkes Barre PA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Let's trial and error?. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kcirevam wrote:
It took me only 13:26 minutes to model the infantry.


And it shows. His legs are way too long. Stand Up measure your bottom of foot to ankle, then ankle to knee, then knee to crotch, crotch to hip then to arm pit. then arm pit to elbow then to wrist then end of middle finger. Use your body as a guide.




Kcirevam wrote:


- Infantry for ra2 don't need any detail, actually, a simple human figure with Cgtextures.Com's help makes an acceptable output shp file.


Its not always what you see that matters. Anyone can make a figure, but its knowing what you did is quality.

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Kcirevam
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You want something I made in 13:26 minuets as a first try at the gsg9 body alignment and animating with character studio to be ultra quality?, and who'd care for knowing you made a 100% true HD human if it's end result would kill all the detail?, laugh my friend at life, if you work so hard to give every twist ,bend and every muscle it's right size to see that in the end the shp file being taken from a very high place would make that seem like nothing but a single different pixel.

Am still learning stuff, and I believe there isn't anything called "perfect", nor do I think that anyone would master 3dsmax in a way they'd make anything you want in a few seconds.

be glad I didn't lie about the time, that thing with no detail took me that much, so how much would detailing need?.

On topic:

I think this is dead, no one thinks a competition without a prize (no such was mentioned) is something good to enter, maybe just for practice, so what's the prize?, and will there be 3 prizes per shp category or just one?.

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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This isn't dead, if you read the first post and everything further you would know this is preparation for a contest taking place in at least a half a year from now. This topic is going to be quiet now and again, it'll be active again for a bit, then quiet, all until it gets a definite date.

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Kcirevam
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

*Revives the topic with a serious look in his eyes*
I hate delay, I actually think you guys are yellow, I think we should just start all over again, let's make it an ordinary contest, we don't need to be having 999 judge each with more biasing than the other(s), just let LKO, Aro, and dutchygamer be the judges and it'll work fine.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But maybe i would like to take part too (impossible if i'm a judge) and as long as the way of the judging between different SHP types isn't clear, there will be no contest.

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Kcirevam
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe we should forbid some SHP types like explosions, and disable the difference between SHP types if a poll of a such thing was made, so go ahead and start one, and there must be a talk about the method of judging.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But the whole point in keeping the competition open to all SHPs is to get everyone involved, instead of just 3 3D artists or whatever.

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Kcirevam
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We just have to solve the judging problems and we're set.

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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh to live in your little world; what in fact, do you think we've been trying to decide this whole time? We're pretty much going to have to have a vote topic (what's the max number of things that can be held for a vote, Banshee?) where the community votes on the best SHPs, and if they are going to be in different categories (Still can't agree with that) then they can be separate topics.

Otherwise, someone is going to have to judge and not be able to enter.

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