Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject:
Any Ares mods out there which build upon normal YR gameplay?
Are there any mods out there that kinda like CannisRules build upon YR gameplay (or maybe with Yuri removed) instead of changing the game in large ways?
Not sure if this is the right board to ask this in. QUICK_EDIT
Sadly nothing released, that i know of, that use Ares... their still mostly Npatch mods.
Funny that you would mention CannisRules, i just got back to playing it. _________________ Total Annihilation is the only battle strategy.
my Moddb.com account QUICK_EDIT
There are plenty of Ares mods (probably as many or more than NP now) it's just there aren't any YR+ type mods I can think of... not released anyway. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:07 am Post subject:
With the amount of bigger mods on the scene... these YR+ minormods died out because of not being enough distinct I think. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
I am developing one with over 7 unique sub-sides for each Yuri, Soviets and Allies, it's the one on my signature. In 3 months I will release the Beta, not much information publicly available but in one month or so I will start publishing it. Some screenshots of the units are out (like when I released the Yuri Mobile ICBM).
The RA3 for RA2 is a RA-style one, but with the new units and Yuri replaced by Empire of the Rising Sun.
Also Mental Omega 3.0 is the biggest one. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Well, it changes the voxel assets and balance but it keeps most the same units, mostly same building art and even re-creates the same missions... so I would call it YR+ in spirit at least. It's more an "expansion and update" than total conversion since it's still Yuri's Revenge. My own mod is similar on that matter (All-new loadscreens, completely redesigned techtree, all units changed and/or replaced, etc.)
It depends on how you take "build upon YR gameplay", but if removing Yuri is permitted then most other things seem trivial in comparison.
I would call it maintaining the same three basic sides and their philosophy/play-style. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Guys, how do you mean YR+ mods? You mean just regular YR enhanced with some of Ares logic?
NimoStar wrote:
I am developing one with over 7 unique sub-sides for each Yuri, Soviets and Allies,
Whoa, that is lot of subfactions. So you want to use something like generals right? Each subfaction will have lot of new stuff, or they will be just like countries (one new special unit per country)? _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Well if my mod keeps going as it is. I might make it public since it wouldn't be using any ripped assets (which I use to fill in the gaps). Although I wouldn't say it would be spectacular and as it is it would be mostly a conversion but would keeps the campaigns (which I like to play more than skirmishes and I have no clue where to start with multiplayer).
NimoStar wrote:
I am developing one with over 7 unique sub-sides for each Yuri, Soviets and Allies, it's the one on my signature.
I hope you realize there is a limit of 32 countries and only 16 can have working taunts. As it stands you'd have at least 25. (21 multiplier and 4 technical) QUICK_EDIT
By YR+ I mean a mod based mostly on YR, only with additions and balancing etc. Like CannisRules or MO 2.0. I guess since Ares has been released these types of mods mostly stopped being developed etc, though I'm sure there are a few on ModDB, just not sure of the quality. QUICK_EDIT
My mod would be considered a YR+ ARES mod I think, and it has a playable Pre-Beta download already that continues to update as I work on it. Sanzon Kaisen
It changes some things from the original game of course, and tries to do some balancing amongst all the sides.
It uses a lot of the new ARES logic. Check my MOD's forum.
Resources and power are more stressed during play.
The AI is a big cheater and far more difficult then the original game, plays similar to a survival or challenge map.
The original 3 sides are mostly unchanged, with 3 new additional playable sides with unique new technology.
All 38 missions are playable at will and their difficulty has been slightly increased.
A bunch of new modes were added.
Anyways feel free to try it, it doesn't look very professional, and as I'm mostly a coder, atheistically it needs a lot of work, but game-play wise its all there right now. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
You'd be surprised how often people still use Taunts to well... taunt.
7 Unique Sub-Factions is a bit overkill as well IMO unless theres a big excuse for it like YR: Zero Hour has with specialized starting units,etc.
Colony Wars does as well to try and keep to the original concept along with some additional units based on PreRelease. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
So there are no YR enhancement mods that use Ares? I'd assume that's what most mods would be but I can understand if it has stigma for being the kind of mods "mostly amateurs" do. QUICK_EDIT
If you wanted a private only mod, you could just add ares features to CannisRules
Also Ares requires that you at least understand and are comfortable with YR modding - their are still many modders who think TibEd is advancing modding hence lack of "simple" projects on Ares
Oh and Nimostar we have mod announcement, development threads for a reason - no need to hijack a thread with your promotion work.
Also might want to mention Iron Sky and space nazis _________________ QUICK_EDIT
AG: I have no experience with modding YR, shouldn't be really hard to edit INI files and using public assets but I just don't have the time to start modding YR myself.
Do people really use TibEdit for YR? That's awful. QUICK_EDIT
So I checked the UMP and decided I want to download it cause it allows me to play maps that are normally only available in Battle mode in Team Alliance mode. It requires me to install a program called "Launch Base" so I did and the first time starting the program it tells me my RA2 isn't installed lol.
It's not really an issue of motivation, I'm just too busy patching Red Alert 1, even adding simple things like allowing skirmish games to be saved requires lots of testing and hacking the game's code around.
Honestly UMP combined with new, good maps, actually interesting AI, Yuri removed, Soviet losing all their good stuff like Cloning Vats getting reverted and with interesting Soviet and Allies subfactions with more than just a bonus unit would go a long way.
Are there any mods that remove Yuri and revert back to RA2 gameplay? I can't be the only one who thinks Yuri is "special" and stock RA2 got stale after 13 years. Plus you don't have Team Alliance and Ares with RA2, neither the new theater and the new units. QUICK_EDIT
As for RA2 in YR - it should be that hard to find and replace differences even with limited time.
AI and decent maps takes time to do which is better spent making a decent mod.
Essentially its scope creep - your mod begins adding so many additional fixes / enhancements it inherently does not become YR+ anymore because original game restrains you.
Also Ares is incompatible with save function and will be for quite some time.
Only other mod I can think of is Dartzo mod which is more like a RA2 revamp but not. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I assume reverting to the core RA2 gameplay itself, no Yuri and old units, shouldn't be that hard? I feel when the AI sucks as badly as in YR it really needs to be improved, for ZH you have the hard AI mods and the Shockwave mod (which kinda is ZH+) also improves AI somewhat. Maps are important too because YR doesn't have that many compared to say RA1's expansions, after a few days of playing you've done all the team alliance maps and the are almost no large Team Alliance maps. QUICK_EDIT
Units and Structure
Pretty much ini changes and graphical changes
AI
Limited as scripted nature (just like RA1) so need to add lots more triggers which requires testing and tweaking
Maps
Again time consuming and not many dedicated map makers in community anymore. If they exist its for TS so only real hope is Google search and adapt of old maps. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
RA1 AI isn't scripted, it's a pile of shit hard-coded by a rookie programmer or more likely an intern.
Are there any AI editors that would allow me to do compare RA2 and YR AI scripts (though they would mostly be the same and not need much reworking until extra units are added or the AI itself improved)
Yeah I see the issue with maps. You'd need to have a team of mappers or adapt public asset maps (like you said). QUICK_EDIT
Well the RA1 AI scripts are still in YR lol ... the follow one comes to mind
DCoder had a AI tool but I mostly used Deezires AI guide and played around.
YR is RA2 one with more triggers ...
Most of the immediate benefits to AI can be made by reducing aihatedelays, teamdelays and increasing their artificial modifier to income _________________ QUICK_EDIT
"Well the RA1 AI scripts are still in YR lol ... the follow one comes to mind "
Probably mission AI stuff.
I assume it also wouldn't hurt to have the AI create more variations in teams, there's only a few attack teams the AI builds, it's really quite pathetic. QUICK_EDIT
Well, making an mod that removes Yuri faction and makes YR into plain RA2 is not a major job really...
I ventured that path long ago and lost interest having done some of it, reasons for example doing being stock RA2 has Ivan+Yuri combo that breaks with YR and Sovs are turned quite flavorless brute force faction.
It just raises questions on evolving the concept as with Yuri faction slot you have additional country to potentially add to soviets and what to do with Yuris units, disable entirely or port some over to maybe under soviet wing psychic corps country that has handful special yuri things like disk.
Also the additional YR allied and soviet units fates, battle fortress, siege chopper and so on...still keep or disable?
As in one hand, you want maybe totally RA2 without even additional YR units to those two factions, then again maybe you want them anyway and maybe you wanna go further on to add new units...
Making the root is boringly easy, just to make it something more worthwhile is another and thus most modders scrap it or lose their way adding new stuff. QUICK_EDIT
I'd remove Yuri units completely, give both sides all the units they had in RA2 and YR and now I think of it I would remove countries in favour of "subfactions" kinda like Zero Hour has (but not as special "generals").
I'd give the Demo Truck and Tesla Tank to every Soviet faction (because they also have them in Red Alert 1 with the Aftermath expansion) while making Demo Truck cheaper and slower and Tesla Tank more powerful and/or durable.
I don't know what to give the Allies. Grand Cannon and Sniper are lame because of their ridiculous range and ROF. Black Eagles rape buildings quite easily. I guess I could give them paradrop and tank destroyers (with a buff for tank destroyer so it's actually worthwhile). I'd probably remove the Sniper and nerf Black Eagle damage and Grand Cannon range (and cost).
I guess I could also give Sniper a huge range nerf with a small ROF boost plus increased cost. I'd give Allies an APC and another traditional battle tank.
How would I got about starting to edit Yuri's Revenge? What's the workflow for the average modder? Any good practices I should follow other than making backups regularly? How would I go about removing Yuri? How to make a mod standalone? QUICK_EDIT
Well, making an mod that removes Yuri faction and makes YR into plain RA2 is not a major job really...
I ventured that path long ago and lost interest having done some of it, reasons for example doing being stock RA2 has Ivan+Yuri combo that breaks with YR and Sovs are turned quite flavorless brute force faction.
It just raises questions on evolving the concept as with Yuri faction slot you have additional country to potentially add to soviets and what to do with Yuris units, disable entirely or port some over to maybe under soviet wing psychic corps country that has handful special yuri things like disk.
Also the additional YR allied and soviet units fates, battle fortress, siege chopper and so on...still keep or disable?
As in one hand, you want maybe totally RA2 without even additional YR units to those two factions, then again maybe you want them anyway and maybe you wanna go further on to add new units...
Making the root is boringly easy, just to make it something more worthwhile is another and thus most modders scrap it or lose their way adding new stuff.
Reminds me of people in XWIS whining about wanting Spy Planes,Boris,Guardian GIs,Battle Fortresses,Siege Choppers but not wanting to play Yuri's Revenge.
This also reminds me of how unfinished some of Yuri's Assets are:
- Psychic Sensor/Radar has Soviet Damaged Frames
- Submarine Pen has no Production Animation _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
Well standalone is against EULA and confirmed by EA when Mental Omega team when asked so unlike cnc - fs it isn't freeware.
So no help on forums not to mention Ares is not compatible with cracked copies of game.
As for advice you just have to experiment and experiment with tools.
Also if you really intend to make a YR+ only mod you need to set limits and stop when done otherwise scope creep (new many features) added and you quit _________________ QUICK_EDIT
So what fixes would you consider in a Ares YR+ Mod.
For me this would probably encompass a YR+ Mod if I ever make one:
- Voxel Overhaul on all Voxels (Yes including Civilian Vehicles too)
- Transparent Shadows on Infantry
- Reimplementing Assaulter Logic on SEAL,Tesla Trooper & Brute
Theres the obvious one which adds in EMP Logic on the Tesla Tank so the Load Screen actually makes sense for Russia.
Adding in Walls that allow Team Colors (Probably just new versions exclusive for Skirmish/Multiplayer - And Campaign will still use the original no team color ones)
- Fixes provided by UMP
- Miscellaneous SHP Fixes
- ZShape Fixes on the Buildings
- Reworking Flak Weapons to be Anti-Air/Anti-Armor
- Giving the Flak Track a Machine Gun for Ground instead of a Cannon (Cannon would end up as the Sea Scorpions Gun)
- Rebalancing the Initiate (Cost,Garrison Weapons,etc.)
- And if we are to be picky with adding new Units these would be my probable additions.
Allies:
Medic (So Guardian GI's can stop complaining)
Chrono Prison (In the Chrono Prison's Case it might probably just be a powered up version of the NeutronRifle)
Soviets:
Spy Infantry (Probably similar to MO's Saboteur to make it unique)
Yuri:
Spy Infantry
Anti-Air Infantry
Anti-Air Naval Unit (With Anti-Squid/Naval to mix in with Yuri's Multi-Role Units) _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
I don't know what to give the Allies. Grand Cannon and Sniper are lame because of their ridiculous range and ROF. Black Eagles rape buildings quite easily.
That is their purpose. Grand cannon is defense structure. Add similiar to Soviets too.
Sniper is obviosly like this in every CNc game, so I do not see anything wrong with it, except he maybe need higher cost and BattleLab as prerequisite.
Same for grand cannon.
Black Eagle should have higher cost than harrier. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject:
Just keep it in your mind, Snipers only can kill infantries. And players rarely use infantries in late game. I don't think it needs to have cost to increase, but give it stealth or ability to blow up tanks at close range. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
I don't know what to give the Allies. Grand Cannon and Sniper are lame because of their ridiculous range and ROF. Black Eagles rape buildings quite easily.
That is their purpose. Grand cannon is defense structure. Add similiar to Soviets too.
Sniper is obviosly like this in every CNc game, so I do not see anything wrong with it, except he maybe need higher cost and BattleLab as prerequisite.
Same for grand cannon.
Black Eagle should have higher cost than harrier.
The observation is that the only decent country bonus is the Desolator for Soviets and all the Allies country specifics are really good if Allies have more than just one of the mat a time. QUICK_EDIT
I've always wondered why the Soviets got to keep the squid in YR. It feels like such a Yuri unit.
Right.
Stingray with EMPing Tesla could serve for same role. Jaming ships and slowly riping'em apart. Organic Dolphins and squids are still able counter it.
Just thoughts. _________________ Gangster is a Project Perfect Wuj (c)Aro QUICK_EDIT
I've always wondered why the Soviets got to keep the squid in YR. It feels like such a Yuri unit.
In YR Lt. Zofia says they use reinforcement training on the Squids to make them comply. Squid doesn't do what they want they zap it a bit. They keep zapping it a small amount until it obeys.
I'm guessing its something similar to how you'll spray a dog with water to make it obey.
Of course most of us rather remember it more in RA2 where Yuri demonstrates it to us so thats the common assumption that Yuri was the one who introduced them to the Soviet Forces.
@Gangster that's how it works in Colony Wars. Though like most mods I've moved Giant Squids to Yuri.All 3 Human Sides have an Anti-Squid Unit.
Allies have the Dolphin
Soviets have the Stingray (Which functions as the Early Game Naval Unit)
Yuri uses the Reaper Corvette (Which is their Early Game Naval/Anti-Air) _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
I've always wondered why the Soviets got to keep the squid in YR. It feels like such a Yuri unit.
Because Yuri's side is not finished. So instead Adding Squid to Yuri, as new navy, then replacing Squid with something else for Soviets, they just decided to leave Squids for Soviet side. And Boomer is only one naval unit Yuri got. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Rather than modding YR to just be RA2, it is possible to use the game modes to just revert everything back to RA2 behaviour (with a few exceptions) for a single game mode (I called it classic when I did this). You still have to have yuri, but i just made him into a soviet faction with a side special of a psychic beacon that gave a perma control only version of the psychic dominator. Best of both worlds then, you can play a mostly RA2 game or a YR game whenever without changing the mod. QUICK_EDIT
When I was talking about making my mod standalone, I meant distributing my mod so there's a launcher that enables/disables the mod. What program do I need to use to do this? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:16 pm Post subject:
There isn't any mod launcher with Ares cooperation. XCC Mod Launcher doesn't have this option and LaunchBase...
LaunchBase got killed with the SVN->git move I think. And if not, then it should be. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
LaunchBase didn't get "killed", quite the opposite - Marshall released the source code so that more people could improve it. It's just written in VB and nobody had the time to get into it yet.
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject:
I know that, but still. It never had the support, and considering how splitted the community is... probably never will. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
I had taken a look at it when the source code was released. It is a very big project with dozens of features I don't even know what they are for. I also started rewriting it in VB.net, but without understanding why certain things are the way they are, I can't translate them properly. After writing way more than 5000 lines of code, not even the initialization procedure is fully implemented yet and the main menu (a simple list on an otherwise empty window) just displays the names of installed mods (no plugins).
Big features yet to be rewritten is the update mechanism, the actual mod activation/deactivation and rollback routines, a way to activate plugins with modes, Ares support, and the entire UI.
Extending the original code is possible, but it is a project grown over time and most of the hardcoded assumptions are spread over multiple files. It's not an one-line-code-change to support the new screenshot filename format, for example. It's more complex to support both the old and the new format at the same time. But this is a minor change compared to what Ares went through in the last two years. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
@Graion: Independent from the unwarranted negativity of your reply, people said pretty much the same things about Ares when it started...arguing that it'd never succeed because it lacked features compared to NPatch and people would use that instead. _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:02 am Post subject:
I still use LB daily because it's easier for me to testing mods. However since there isn't many mods within the system, it slows down drastically when there are more mods than 8 within the mod manager (I made some Arestester mods locally), and the many more bugs I can't even remember...
The idea was good, but noone within the community cared. Gladly, that doesn't apply to Ares. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
You can try asking for people to test Ares and see how much they care...
Point being: Such things are very subjective, and personal opinions about a project's aliveness rarely have an effect on the project itself. Development does, and nothing else. _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
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Any Ares mods out there which build upon normal YR gameplay?
