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Mod Ideas Scrap
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Quadhelix
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 31 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject:  Mod Ideas Scrap
Subject description: Ideas and Concepts Looking for a Good Home
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This is a compilation of a number of different ideas that I've had that I will likely never be able to implement. I am posting them here in case they contain one or more ideas that someone might find useful.

Scrap Concept 1: Sweeping Subfactional Diversity
The basic idea is that, rather than changing 3-4 units and a few upgrades, each subfaction has radically different gameplay mechanics. For example, a Nod/Soviet/China subfaction might follow the C&C4 route of units costing nothing but Supply, resulting in an up-front cost for the Supply Depots and production structures but no cost to replace lost units. Conversely, a GDI/Allies/US subfaction might have higher unit costs but compensates with more unit abilities (e.g., the Missile Defender’s “Laser Lock” ability or the Grenadier’s EMP Grenades could be unique to this subfaction) and additional levels of unit rank.

The three basic varieties of subfaction that I had considered were:
  • Micro-focused/“Elite” subfaction: Oriented toward deployment of a small number of high-value units, these subfactions focus on micromanagement at the expense of macromanagement. This translates into a simplified economy, but also greater emphasis on unit special abilities.
  • Main Faction: The main faction is oriented more towards traditional C&C-style play, requiring a mix of macro- and micromanagement.
  • Macro-focused/“Industrial” subfaction: These subfactions are focused more on developing their economy and infrastructure and less on micromanaging the units that they build.


Scrap Concept 2: No Subfactions
As the expansions to the original Dawn of War illustrated, the inclusion of too many factions may result in none of the factions being balanced. Thus, a better approach may be focusing on creating a small number of diverse and interesting factions.

Nod:
The Brotherhood’s central design features are its decentralized tech tree and its decentralized bases. Nod’s tech tree is somewhat similar to Starcraft’s: each tech structure unlocks only a single unit or, alternatively, a single infantry type and a single vehicle type. Although the tech structures are roughly organized into Tiers (e.g., players would be able to unlock Militants well before being to unlock Avatars), no tech structure directly requires any other tech structure (so a player could choose to unlock Avatars before unlocking Militants).

Nod’s base-building mechanics are inspired by this suggestion on CNC-Den (yes, that is me calling the idea “impossible to balance”). The basic gist is that Nod’s primary facilities for constructing new structures are “hidden under the battlefield,” protected from the possibility of enemy attack. Nod starts the battle with an Outpost to provide ground control to place structures and one build queue; creating more Outposts does not create more build queues but does expand Nod’s ground control. At a certain point, Nod can employ the “Expanded Construction Facilities” upgrade, which provides a second build queue. Similar to the Soviet's mechanic in RA3 (or the system from All Stars), Nod structures are built on the battlefield rather than prefabricated and most Nod structure provide ground control.

GDI (Draft A):
GDI’s tech tree is focused around sets of mutually exclusive branches. At Tier 1, GDI has access to two different types of vehicle factory, the Tech Depot and the Armor Factory; the units available from each depends on which is built first. Therefore, certain units are available only if a Tech Depot is built first, while others are available only if the Armor Factory is built first. If the Tech Depot is built first, GDI’s Tier 1 and Tier 2 vehicles will focus on mobility, firepower, and special abilities; if the Armor Factory is built first, GDI’s Tier 1 and Tier 2 vehicles will focus on armor and infantry support.

At Tier 3, GDI has a choice between another three mutually exclusive branches: Heavy Vehicles, Mobile Infantry, and Covert Operations. The Heavy Vehicles branch is accessed through a unique vehicle factory, the Heavy Engineering Facility, that can build Mammoth Tanks and Mastodons. The Mobile Infantry branch unlocks Zone Troopers at the Barracks and special dropships at the Airfield (or Tech Depot). The Covert Operations branch, unlocked through the Intelligence Center (Detention Camp?), gives access to stealth infantry (Sniper Teams? GDI-brand Shadow Teams?) and a stealth strike aircraft armed with a “anti-radiation” cruise missile (i.e., it can only AA units, or only base defenses, or some other limitation in that vein). Although GDI is limited to picking only one of these branches in any particular mission, the units that GDI produces are the best, most cost effective, and most versatile of their counterparts.

GDI (Draft B):
GDI’s tech tree is built along elements of the UN Law System from MidEast Crisis 2. The resulting tech tree has two axes: “tech progression” unlocked by structures (e.g., a Tech Center) or upgrades (e.g., Red Alert 3’s “Heightened Clearance”) and “Peacekeeping escalation” unlocked by enemy actions (such as using flame weapons, suicide bombers, etc.).

At the lowest level of Peacekeeping, most of GDI’s vehicles are drones, which are killed by EMP and mind controlled by Hacking. Additionally, GDI’s base structure is similar to the IDF’s in MEC2: both the Construction Yard/Command Center and the War Factory can be packed/repacked into aircraft to move about the battlefield and may potentially retain some functionality while mobile. At this level of escalation, GDI moves up the tech tree via upgrades at the Construction Yard.

As GDI moves up the ladder of escalation, its base becomes progressively less mobile but also progressively better defended. For example, at the first heightened level of escalation, Construction Yards and War Factories lose any functionality while mobile and repack into slow, heavily armored ground vehicles instead of fast, lightly armored aircraft. Additionally, GDI gains the ability to build Barracks and Airfields to train infantry and build certain aircraft, respectively, and can also build certain base defenses. At the final level of escalation, the “upgrades” used to progress from one tech level to the next are replaced by structures on the battlefield (e.g., a Tech Center) and both Construction Yards and War Factories lose their ability to pack into mobile forms. Conversely, however, the final level of escalation unlocks walls and a number of powerful base defenses.

Peacekeeping escalation also changes which units are available to GDI. As previously noted, GDI’s default forces consist mainly of drones, which are destroyed by EMP and mind controlled by hacking; infantry are brought in by support power, IDF-style. At the first level of escalation, GDI gains access to a number of manned vehicles and aircraft, but loses access to certain drones (e.g., the “Drone Tank” is effectively replaced by the Predator). At the final level of escalation, almost all of the drones are replaced with manned vehicles.

The main drawback to this version of GDI is that the player’s opponents get to control what the GDI player’s tech tree looks like. The player who chooses GDI for its low-escalation mobility would be quite frustrated when going up against a player who thinks Fanatics are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Similarly, an opponent who doesn’t want to face Mammoth Tanks could decline to use Fanatics, flame weapons, etc. in order to avoid escalation.

Scrap Concept 3: Secret Projects
The gist of this idea is structures/upgrades that function somewhat similarly to Secret Projects in Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri (Wonders of the World in Civilization) in the sense that, once one player has built it, no other player can. For example, players might have access to an “enhanced infantry project” that replaces their heavy infantry (such as Awakened for Nod and Zone Troopers for GDI) with an enhanced version (e.g., Enlightened and Zone Raiders, respectively). In that example, to keep the player who builds the project from having Awakened or Zone Troopers left over, Awakened and Zone Troopers might require that someone else has built the project.

Possible Projects:
  • Superweapon Project (GDI: “Star Wars Protocol”; Nod: “Death Hand Stratagem”): Superweapons (GDI’s Ion Cannon and Nod’s Cluster Missile) are unavailable until this project is completed. The player who builds this project gets a free, one-use support power: GDI gets an Orbital Strike while Nod gets a Tactical Nuclear Missile.
  • Heavy Vehicle Project (GDI: “Experimental Mammoth Requisition”; Nod: “Project Overlord”): Heavy vehicles (GDI’s Mammoth Tanks and Nod’s Avatars) are unavailable until this project is completed. If a GDI player completes the project, that player gains access to Mammoth Tanks with two extra barrels; if a Nod player completes the project, that player gains Purifiers instead of Avatars.
  • Heavy Infantry Project (GDI: “ZOCOM Reserves”; Nod: “Marked of Kane Hub”): Heavy infantry (Nod’s Awakened and GDI’s Zone Troopers) are not available until this project is completed. The player that completes the project gains access to either Enlightened or Zone Raiders instead of Awakened or Zone Troopers, respectively.

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kairunotabi
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Location: Home

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

About the 3rd concept, can you explain how would you disallow the other players from training/building a superunit/weapon that has been built by another? That seems impossible afaik

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Quadhelix
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 31 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kairunotabi wrote:
About the 3rd concept, can you explain how would you disallow the other players from training/building a superunit/weapon that has been built by another? That seems impossible afaik

I would imagine that it would work something along the lines of giving an invisible object to each other players on the map. On some of the engines, this could potentially be done by giving each player an invisible, intangible structure (hidden "off the map"?) with a mind control weapon; the invisible object is the only thing vulnerable to that weapon and is delivered to the structure by some auto-cast ability that can only target the invisible structure.

The purpose of the invisible object is that it would, e.g., be the prerequisite for Avatars and Mammoth Tanks. I think certain C&C engines allow negative prerequisites or allow multiple things to occupy the same build-limit; in the case of the former, the invisible objects are the negative prerequisite of the "Project," in the case of the latter, they occupy the same build-limit.

I have to admit that I have no idea if any of this would work, but I lack the skills and experience needed to make that judgment.

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So your mod ideas are as follow:

1: Rip off from C&C4
2: Rip off from Mideast crisis 2 mod
3: Rip off from Sid Meiers game
And somewhere I read something about starcraft.

you're a genius.

Let me guess you just recycled all the elements you like from games you currently play into this text. Get a life or start modding but plz stop writing up ideas about better warfactories creating better tanks.

Concept 1 is something I am thinking about too. scrapping money all together and going just with buildtime. But then again the AI is too shitty to work out with such changes.

Good luck getting such concepts to work, if you haven't got mates to play with the AI probably wont. It just throws stuff at you, thats all the AI is good for, if you're unlucky it decides to go with MASTODOOOONS without SPECIAL WARFACTORIES.

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Quadhelix
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 31 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OrangeNero wrote:
1: Rip off from C&C4

Thereby demonstrating that you completely missed the entire point of the idea.

One Nod subfaction (the stealth subfaction) uses the same mechanics as C&C4 because it matches the design philosophy of the faction: run and hide, then hit and run.

Honestly, how did you read, "Sweeping Subfactional Diversity" as "do away with money"? I mean, it's not like a gave a title or anything. Rolling Eyes

OrangeNero wrote:
2: Rip off from Mideast crisis 2 mod

???

OrangeNero wrote:

3: Rip off from Sid Meiers game

I don't think that I hid the ball with that one.


OrangeNero wrote:

you're a genius.

There's a reason that I called this thread "Mod Ideas Scrap."

OrangeNero wrote:

Let me guess you just recycled all the elements you like from games you currently play into this text.
You: 0. Me: 1.

Want to take another guess?

OrangeNero wrote:

Get a life or start modding but plz stop writing up ideas about better warfactories creating better tanks.
???

"Better warfactories creating better tanks"? What are you talking about?

OrangeNero wrote:

Concept 1 is something I am thinking about too. scrapping money all together and going just with buildtime.
Thereby demonstrating that you clearly missed the main point of idea 1. Only one or two subfactions would scrap money.

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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't really get the fuzz about it.
The title clearly says he's scrapped the ideas.

I don't get why OrangeNero is so plain stupid to fall for this.

He won't implement his ideas for maybe those exact reasons, or because it isn't possible in YR.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Splitted the posts. Keep on topic now Wink

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