Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject:
Having A Very Tenacious Problem
I've run into some sort of heisenbug... placing these three terrain pieces on a map only sometimes causes it to crash at "calculating likely enemy plans" or at "secondary check of combat zone". It's acting exactly like I have "Template has damaged art" checked, but I've quadruple-checked to make sure that isn't the case. The strange thing is that these tiles sometimes don't cause crashes, and I'm totally at a loss as to how to fix this issue.
I'm posting the files here; if anyone can figure out what's causing the problem, I'd really appreciate it.
EDIT: Here they are ingame, but I haven't changed the files or code at all.
Use XCC TMP editor Unofficial 1.05. Compare with some of original cliffs.
Extra Z Data seems to be missing the red color for overlapping areas. QUICK_EDIT
That's true, but most of the other tiles from this set don't have it either, and they're not causing crashes.
EDIT: Actually, you might be on to something; I originally made these from the regular cliff template, but the extra Z data was removed after I reworked the tileset, so that could be part of the problem. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
do you tried to check them with TMP Shop (link in my signature)? Maybe it shows the error or the difference to other working TMPs.
Another reason could be a corrupt mix. Empty the mix from all files and then add them all again. A corrupt mix can lead to strange issues like yours.
\Edit
Your bottom tiles have terrain Water. This can be in some cases a passable terrain (like hovercraft) and maybe it breaks pathfinding if such cliff tiles are passable. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I'll have a look, but as I said, the game only crashes sometimes when the tiles are on the map. If I go into FinalSun and change the location of the tiles, it sometimes works fine. I've never seen a problem like this before. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Okay, I finally fixed the issue, but now I've run into a new one. I made this tile from scratch in TMP Builder, but it's not showing up properly in-game. I even fixed up the Z-data (at least, I think I did), but to no avail.
checked it with TMP Shop and it looks ok. No clue why it's black ingame.
I can only assume that it's an ini or mix file issue. Either the game reads a different ini and replaces the tmp with something else
or the mix in which you have the tmp is only read by finalsun and not the game.
@E1: i think terrain type Rock is also used by several vanilla TS cliffs.
IIRC type 7 is basially also the same as 15. Both fall back to being cliff terrain. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
@E1: i think terrain type Rock is also used by several vanilla TS cliffs.
Checked, can't find any temperate vanilla TS cliffs using terrain type rock, they use 15.
But my TS folder contains old content. Tell me if there are exceptions. QUICK_EDIT
Hmm, seems TMP Builder doesn't have the option to use type 15 instead of 7... That explains quite a bit, but even with all the fixes I can think of, the tile still causes a crash. I even went so far as to download the TI public beta and use their tiles as a base, but it still won't work. I'm beginning to suspect it's not possible to implement it, at least not in its current form. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Converted rock to cliff and saved with latest TMP Shop. Took less than 10 mins. Works in game properly.
Though rock or cliff and open ended height of 2 shouldn't matter for showing up in-game.
I'm still not sure about the first one; I ended up just remaking it. The second one, even the changed version, still causes my game to crash, so I'm going to re-install. I'll probably end up redoing all of the cliff tilesets; it seems most of my assets are screwed up in some way or another. I think for XTX we may want to revert to Gangster's original release, and re-implement the assets we have. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
How do you add tmps to your mix files? (what steps/tool)
It sounds more like a corrupt mix issue than a problem of the tmp itself.
Are you sure your temperat/snow inis are correct coded? Not that you changed one of the hardcoded sets and this way screwed up the game. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I think for XTX we may want to revert to Gangster's original release, and re-implement the assets we have.
Yeah, as long as we're reorganizing XTX - If we could make TX maps compatible with XTX would be a really awesome thing!
It's something we missed the first time around. By the time I got on XTX, the organization was so fusterclucked that it wasn't practical to try and make em compatible. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
I use XCC Mix Editor to add put them into mix files. The .ini's should be correct; the coding is virtually the same as my other tilesets that don't cause crashes. I just deleted all my other mix files and put the tile in, but it's got the same problem of showing up ingame as a bunch of raised clear tiles.
I don't think we'll be able to make it both backwards compatible with TX and organise it nicely for mappers; to my knowledge, there aren't that many TX maps floating around, so I personally consider backwards compatibility a fairly minor issue. Once I actually get all these damned tilesets working in-game I might re-texture the concrete cliff faces and a few other things. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
XCC Mix Editor is known to cause corrupt mix files if you simply add new files. In the past i only found it reliable working when you completely empty the mix and add all files in one operation.
Better use XCC Mixer. It works much more reliable when adding files to mix's. (just Drag&Drop the files into the open mix) _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
as written above, it depends how you use it. If you empty the mix and add all files in one operation it is quite reliable.
But if you constantly add and remove single files, then you soon get corrupt mix files with xcc Mix Editor.
The way i understand it, when you delete a file in a mix, the file is removed from the index table and the bytes where it stood are set to 0-bytes. So you have a block of unused bytes in the mix.
If the new file you want to add is smaller than the block of unused bytes, it is inserted there, else it is put at the end. And XCC Mix Editor seems to have trouble when such "unordered" mix files are created and sooner or later creates a corrupt mix. (Especially when you then also click "Compact" and this way totally rearrange the index table and order of the files in the mix)
I might be wrong, but i think XCC Mix Editor also hasn't seen any updates/bugfixes in years.
XCC Mixer on the other hand is still updated by Olaf. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
as written above, it depends how you use it. If you empty the mix and add all files in one operation it is quite reliable.
But if you constantly add and remove single files, then you soon get corrupt mix files with xcc Mix Editor.
I'm always adding and removing single files with mix editor but don't get any corrupt mixes. QUICK_EDIT
The second TMP file and the changed file both are OK. Mix files should also be OK as it is usable in FinalSun.
Placing of mix files so that TS also gets it has to be checked.
Most likely it is the temperat.ini. Tileset numbering should be checked. I don't know if there is a max count.
I use XCC Mix Editor by drag-n-drop to add all files at one go to an empty mix file created by XCC Mixer
and never had any problem. QUICK_EDIT
I think I found the problem... the file's name was too long. I changed it to something shorter, and now it works perfectly. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
When testing, rather than touching temperat.ini, I too renamed it to cliff16.tem instead of transclif01changed.tem.
Neglected to mention it. QUICK_EDIT
oh, indeed. Aro had a lot of trouble on TI too with too long filenames.
best use a 8.3 filename or shorter. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Maybe it's an idea to build in a check in TMP Shop?
Something that warns the user about the length or shows it's too big when it is > 8 characters? _________________
I always wonders if having names longer than 8 chars would cause problems. Some of my files and ini entrys haves names that are over 8 chars, should i change them? QUICK_EDIT
Maybe it's an idea to build in a check in TMP Shop?
Something that warns the user about the length or shows it's too big when it is > 8 characters?
good idea. see it as implemented.
dodgevipergts wrote:
I always wonders if having names longer than 8 chars would cause problems. Some of my files and ini entrys haves names that are over 8 chars, should i change them?
well, it does work for voxel and shps, but who knows how the game handles them in the memory and in savegames. There only has to be a simple string[15] declaration somewhere in the code, and you would end up with strange sideeffects if 2 long filenames differ only in their end, which would be truncated for a 15 char limited string.
Ini-keys seem to have no limit or at least a very high one.
In TI we tried to make sure every single file follows 8.3, just to be on the safe side. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject:
Keep terrain on 8.3. The ninth character is read as subterranean flag or something IIRC. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
Having A Very Tenacious Problem
