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 Forum index » Modding Central » Generals Editing Forum
Supersonic Unless Attacking
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BigBad
Medic


Joined: 23 Feb 2014

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject:   Supersonic Unless Attacking
Subject description: why would a plane slow down when it gets lighter?
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Hey all.  I'm new to this forum (and to real modding in general, mostly).  I've done a bunch of modding Yuri's Revenge through Final Alert and I've done similar editing in Zero Hour with the XCC mixer and .INI files. but not really much more than that.  

In the mod that I'm ((very) slowly) making, I want to correct something that has always bothered me about the Aurora.  It never made sense that the plane would slow down when it gets lighter.  What I want to do is make the plane fly away at the supersonic speed where you can't shoot it.  However, I don't want the plane to be invincible.  I want it to be supersonic while it is flying to the target and returning, but briefly subsonic while it is attacking.  (I justify it as the drag increasing when the bomb bay doors open so the plane necessarily slows down.)  

I see in the .INI file how to make the Aurora fly back at supersonic speeds, but not how to make it slow down a bit during the attack.  I think this should be possible and perhaps not even hard, since the F-117 loses its stealth when it is attacking.  Any ideas for how to have the Aurora supersonic unless it is attacking?

I'll have some balance issues to work out, I know.  I think that I will make my plane have the supersonic invulnerability except when it is attacking, but be quite weak when it can be shot at.

Thanks much!

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The-Light
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't make it untargetable like you want... What you could do is a LOT more work by giving AA weapons accuracy, and making the Aurora fast enough to dodge these weapons while not being in the bomb drop turn.

The problem arrises with especially the Gattling Cannon's AA effectiveness, and with the fact that accuracy modification for AA weapons is ... dificult. An rpg trooper for instance with a scatter radius(chance to miss) will fire at the ground under an air unit, which gives it an accuracy rating of 0% >.>

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BigBad
Medic


Joined: 23 Feb 2014

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't quite follow what you're saying about the AA defenses not working, but I think I would if I got my hands dirty and did those modifications; that is much more extensive than what I want to do.

I don't at all follow what you said about the bomb drop turn.  Why can't the Aurora be supersonic/invincible coming and going, but then vulnerable during the bomb turn?  Wouldn't that correspond to three locomotors?  I'm going to play around with that this weekend.  I think I have an idea for how to make it work.

Perhaps a better question that what I originally asked: is there a way to give the Aurora the ability to regain the supersonic invincibility without landing?

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robertoproz1
Medic


Joined: 04 Mar 2014

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the reason why the aurora is "supersonic going in" is basically for balancing - in mp - and so you can get a hit on a building safely - then bug out - it should be raptor speed after the weapon is used...

not:
fire weapon -
then almost dead stop -
get raped by 1000 enemy troops/defenses
100% death rate -

to offset the loss ratio just lower the unit costs to that of maybe a little more than a bomb truck - since the aurora is pretty much a suicide unit but with aerial capabilities - ooh a scared flying terrorist. you should do that instead.

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BigBad
Medic


Joined: 23 Feb 2014

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My overall plan has nothing to do with the original Aurora.  What I want to do is make a plane that only gives the enemy a small window of opportunity to shoot it down.  It would be a Rank-5 power or something.  (The unit can be purchased, but it would require the purchase of a rank-5 technology.  Or it will be very expensive or something.)

The Goal:
Supersonic going in
Briefly slow down when bomb bay doors open
Fire
Stay a bit slower than usual while doors close
Regain supersonic speed

I see this a lot like the F-117, which reveals itself while it's attacking, and briefly before and after -- just like a real stealth plane -- but for my plane, it uses speed, not stealth.

(As long as you take issue with how my unit would impact balance, let me say that my original plan was to have this also be a stealth plane, and that its weapon would be a standoff cruise missile.  I can get all but the regaining of the supersonic invincibility to work, though I quickly saw why my whole plan would throw off all balance.)

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The-Light
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the issue with the regaining of "supersonic" after bomb drops is in the module that controls it...

A locomotor does nothing more than defining the flight capabilities, it is not responsible for the being "untargetable"..

The idea with my plan and the issue with the AA comes down to projectile speed:
-If you make your aircraft faster than missiles whilst not turning it's "invulnerable" to missiles, well actually it's "unhitable" but whatever.
-The issue now comes with bullet/laser based AA(Gattling Tank,Gattling Cannon, Quad Cannon, Avenger, laser turret), as bullets/lasers are insta-hit so they'll never miss....
-One solution to that you could do is litererally make this plane of yours invulnerable(in the armor.ini) from these weapons, that only results in a very small chance of intercept on the plane...

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BigBad
Medic


Joined: 23 Feb 2014

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked through the Notepad file with ctrl+F and did not see the module that controls the invulnerability.  What name is it hiding under?

Other question: You said that the Aurora cannot simply outfly lasers (makes sense...light is REALLY fast).  Can it outfly SAMs if I just set the locomotor to have a speed of 1000 (or whatever) on the way back?  I was testing this recently.  I'm pretty sure that I got shot down.

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The-Light
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, making the Aurora faster than missiles makes it unhitable by trailing missiles. Offcource this doesn't work against missiles that come from the direction the aurora is flying, and outrunning till the airfield is reached doesn't mean the missiles can't catch up Wink

This Module:

 Behavior = JetAIUpdate ModuleTag_07
   OutOfAmmoDamagePerSecond    = 10%    ; amount of damage to take per SEC (not per frame) when out of ammo
                                        ; note that it's expressed as a percent of max health, not an absolute
   TakeoffDistForMaxLift       = 0%   ; larger numbers give more lift sooner when taking off
   TakeoffPause                = 500
   MinHeight                   = 5
   
SneakyOffsetWhenAttacking   = -20.0  ; this is how far behind us people aim when we are in attack mode
   AttackLocomotorType         = SET_SUPERSONIC
   AttackLocomotorPersistTime  = 100    ; we start slowing down almost immediately
   
AttackersMissPersistTime    = 2000   ; but remain untargetable fer a bit longer
   ReturnForAmmoLocomotorType  = SET_SLUGGISH
   ReturnToBaseIdleTime        = 10000         ; if idle for this long, return to base, even if not out of ammo
 End


The red text is responsible for making anything attacking the aurora miss.

Now it just came to mind, and i don't really expect it, but very maybe there could be a tag that makes it untargetable as you want.[/u][/code]

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way the Aurora works is that is only Invulnerable (or at least untargettable) when attacking. Moving normally while it still has a bomb doesn't make it immune.
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BigBad
Medic


Joined: 23 Feb 2014

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dutchygamer wrote:
The way the Aurora works is that is only Invulnerable (or at least untargettable) when attacking. Moving normally while it still has a bomb doesn't make it immune.
Yeah, I found that out by thinking that I could have a really powerful, invincible plane guarding my base.

Nope!

But what about the locomotor affects its speed at the particular times during its flight?  I am okay with the plane being shot down when it's in guard mode (though I think I could figure out a hypersonic guard mode where it is invincible).  I am okay with the plane being shot down when it is in the turn while it drops the bomb.  I want to retain the ability to fly to the target with impunity, and I want to add the ability to escape with impunity very shortly after the attack run.

Guard/circling
Flying to target
Turning while releasing bomb (not having fired yet)
Turning just after having released bomb
Flying home

Those seem like five distinct locomotors to play with.  I don't see them all in obvious ways in the code, but I think that there should be a way to play with them, and if so, maybe I can get my invincibility when the plane is on its way to attack and when it is returning from having attacked, but not right when it is in the midst of the attack, during that time when the F-117 reveals its stealth.

I referred to hypersonic speed.  I think that's a term used in Shockwave.  I'm not working with Shockwave.  I just have the term in my head because the Aurora being supersonic is unremarkable because there are certainly supersonic bombers (Russian Tu-160; US B-1B and F-111), but hypersonic (Mach 5+) is really fast.  (All three supersonic bombers I named have swing-wings...interesting.)

To clarify a potentially nebulous point, I mean untargetable rather than invincible.  I've had "invincible" units go kaput from EMP blasts.  It's Contra with the big EMP tower, right?  I think that's when it happened.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know there is some way to make an unit untargettable (seen it in the internal Rise of the Reds beta I'm in), but I haven't looked into how. Also, I'm not sure how you can trigger it when it has dropped the bomb (or as you want, on the way back).
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BigBad
Medic


Joined: 23 Feb 2014

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dutchygamer wrote:
I know there is some way to make an unit untargettable (seen it in the internal Rise of the Reds beta I'm in), but I haven't looked into how. Also, I'm not sure how you can trigger it when it has dropped the bomb (or as you want, on the way back).
I'm pretty sure that I've gotten the untargetability to work on the way to the strike and on the way back.  That's clearly unfair.  The trick, as I see it, is to get the untargetability to disappear only briefly, like the flash the F-117s give when the reveal their stealth right before and until right after they attack.

Is that feature available in the normal RotR mod?  I'm definitely interested in taking at look at what they (you guys?) did.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBad wrote:
Dutchygamer wrote:
I know there is some way to make an unit untargettable (seen it in the internal Rise of the Reds beta I'm in), but I haven't looked into how. Also, I'm not sure how you can trigger it when it has dropped the bomb (or as you want, on the way back).
I'm pretty sure that I've gotten the untargetability to work on the way to the strike and on the way back.  That's clearly unfair.  The trick, as I see it, is to get the untargetability to disappear only briefly, like the flash the F-117s give when the reveal their stealth right before and until right after they attack.

Is that feature available in the normal RotR mod?  I'm definitely interested in taking at look at what they (you guys?) did.

Not my handywork, but The_Hunter's #Tongue And no, afaik it's only available in the internal beta (which I test) on some Russian units.
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