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 Forum index » Featured Tools » Voxel Section Editor III
Allow setting a default Normals option?
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:22 am    Post subject:  Allow setting a default Normals option? Reply with quote

Issue #1:

What I'd really like to see is a way to fix which method is used for auto-normals, maybe a "make default" button, or just remember it between all sessions...

I don't like 8.0 and I don't intend to use it, 7.1 with various tricks is still the best.

It gets frustrating everytime I apply normals I have to keep checking the right boxes... AUTO is supposed to be AUTO! ehhh

Issue #2:

The latest version I tried doesn't seem to select the colour on the swatch when using the picker, it picks the colour fine, but only updates the numerical string below.

Issue #3:

There's still an autonormals bug in the forward-left-downward positions, always creates black dots.

Looking at the normals map it's easy to spot, it's always a light early value amongst darker later values.

This isn't a serious problem usually, but I like complex curves, and I have had 4 spots on one model to patch...

Thanks for all the work though...


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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Issue #1:

You may prefer the Influence Normalizer, but that happens because your models are rounded. That won't happen necessarily with everyone else's models. The Tangent Plane provides a better contrast than the Influence, making the model's sharp features get more attention.

The meaning of auto normals is that it calculates the normals of each voxel automatically. However, it does not mean that the program is an oracle and may find the perfect normal for every situation or even the method that most suits it. We do not a sort of golden standard method that is able to obtain the results of all algorithms and use the best one. And, yea, I've clearly stated that it is an experimental feature.

None of these methods are appropriate to find the best results because these algorithms try to solve a global problem with a local approach. While the calculation of the normal itself is a local problem, the detection of the sample that forms the region with the data that you need to calculate the normal vector of the voxel is actually a global problem.

The Tangent Plane algorithm fails harder than the Influence one when the region around the voxel has discontinuities. That's why the Influence Normalizer is easier to tweak and it works better with rounded objects. But that doesn't mean that it is the best solution for every case.


#Issue 2: I need to know the version that you tried. Note that it will only pick the colors from the voxels that are in the selected layer (which have a red square around it).


#Issue 3: Which Normalizer are you talking about? I'd also need to take a closer look at your voxel model. There is no bug that affects "forward-left-downward positions" on every situation. It depends how your surface is set and which algorithm is being used. But, I'm gonna be very honest with you.... considering that I'm overloaded with my doctorade thesis, I don't think I'll look into this issue in a low term.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This normals glitch exists in all the 1.32c-1.38 versions that I used for sure.. happens on 5.x and 7.x normalizing types.

Obviously I don't know for sure if it's an influence problem, but as I recall it happens with or without smoothing.

As for #2, the colour picker isn't the problem, it's the extra selected colour display box that doesn't update, it stays gray no matter what colour I'm hovering over or what I've picked... 1.38 worked fine.
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should really fill your voxel before applying any autonormals first. The normalizer can get really confused otherwise.

And 7.1 normalizer sucks, Cubed ftw. #Tongue
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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I make tight rounded sections 3-thick usually, like the nose/bow, and the gentler curve is at least 2-thick, that black dotting isn't from missing dots...
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m7
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cubed normals with a range of 2.6 and a smoothness contrast ratio of 3:1 is what I normally used.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
I make tight rounded sections 3-thick usually, like the nose/bow, and the gentler curve is at least 2-thick, that black dotting isn't from missing dots...


That's not enough for the normalizer. Yes, ingame it would be okay, but the normalizer algorithm gets confused by every hole within the voxel (even holes have influence). Make it solid if you rely upon autonormals.
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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant all the "walls" are 2-3 thick, anytime there's a corner, I make sure there's no sharp edge to screw with normals facing.


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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all walls are 2-3 thick as you said. The picture shows some counter examples in pink.


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Not all walls are 2-3 thick as you said. The picture shows some counter examples.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, I did say usually Smile

So can we see an option to set the autonormals settings we like as default?
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best I can do is to record your last settings and use this knowledge in the next time you use autonormals.

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good enough Smile
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, it's implemented in revision 495.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just fyi, it doesn't remember the range in the bottom left box...
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It actually does, as long as you press "OK".

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