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3A Kodiak building
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm considering to replace the original Kodiak structure in the in the "Weather the storm" mission with this one for the TS client, but I'll have to wait for the damage frames first.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
look at the cinematic render above its also darker than his in comparison.

i have an entirely different lighting than the FMVs
You compare night shot FMVs with a standard 3ds max lighting (the comparison renders have no light sources at all in the scene. Same model, different file than the building version)

@Bittah
tbh i never planned to create any damage frames for this, because
a) i hate doing damage frames.
b) the effort/reward ratio is horrible. It takes a lot of time to deconstruct the model again, while giving as a result only one damn frame.
c) i didn't plan to create a building version in the first place. it's only a by-product of the main project
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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind rendering it facing South-West, please? Personal project.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you go
Kodiak SW version
Though it seems to suffer under the limited palette colors

\Edit
attached the render in case you wanna do your own conversion with a better palette.
When converting this, you have to take care of a few green pixel on the front, which are the result of the very thin antennae.


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KodiakSW.png
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LKO_KodiakSW.zip
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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, well the reason I wanted the other facing render was because I had a feeling some elements of this model would work really well together to make a Command Center of sorts for GDI, which I did to make a decent placeholder at worst. Didn't come out as well as I had hoped but that's because I ran out of patience after an hour or two and just decided to rush the rest. Maybe I'll spend some more time on it at another date but for now I'm fed up of Photoshop. Confused

Thank you for taking the time to do that though, I appreciate it. I'm trying to find a place in the campaign and story to fit the actual Kodiak in itself.


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Allen
Sergeant


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good to me.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, really nice C&P job.
At first i thought "huh, where is the Kodiak" until i noticed that the new unfamiliar building has parts of it. And after looking for quite a while on it i noticed, hey it's almost entirely made of Kodiak parts.
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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, I'm glad you like it. Was quite fun to experiment with something like this. Here's the updated and finished version if you're interested.

Also, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Sad


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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aro wrote:
Also, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Sad

no problem. It's still a Kodiak, just taken apart and turned into something new. Smile

There are some brighter pixel on the southeast facing side on each floor. Are these on purpose there? They could be smoothed out a bit, since they stand out quite a lot.
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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lego Kodiak.  #evil Those pixels were accidental transparency.


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Agent Z
AA Infantry


Joined: 05 Sep 2013
Location: LocationNotFoundException at RealLife.Location.find() at line: -1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work on the Kodiak! The campaign one always seemed so small, and compared to this work of art, it was quite ugly too.

And I guess Aro didn't follow the instructions for assembling his Lego Kodiak, the box definitely didn't have a picture of a building on it Very Happy

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instructions are for Wuj's.  #Lil angel

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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Color picker aint happy


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DonutArnold
General


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Mechacaseal: Do you mean this official or this one ?

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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just saying the colors dont match up to the crash site version at all and it is too harsh color wise. with that said, its extremely hard to make mod crap look official because quite frankly its not and everyone knows it. theres lots of variations of units in ts like theres versions of units rendered in some scenes with dark brown camo while in other scenes they are gold with some blotches. but anyway not like this kodiak thing will be used for anything of value so what does it matter? im not a modder anymore that reason after all. official is best and the game is dead. its carcass will still be dragged through the streets tho with these people who keep churning out crap lol. but ya the kodiak still needs work in my eyes.

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The crash site uses a different palette Mechacaseal.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you all keep acknowledging an obvious (and widely known) troll?

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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aro wrote:
Why do you all keep acknowledging an obvious (and widely known) troll?

insurrection and retro are two of my fav mods by the way even though theres a lot of trash in both. fine i will agree the kodiak maybe should be more gold with the structure palette being used sicne the structures and units are more gold than brown in the screenshot but those structures are also severely scaled down so it dont look right then too. but it still dont look right sadly. im not trolling right now. btw IT DOESNT LOOK RIGHT. just flat out doesnt look right.


i like that scaled down kodiak in that screenshot. looks nice lol.

ITS A BABY KODIAK


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Waqar Younis
Guest




PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is V-ray not feasible? I mean the reason the colour looks very different in the original "Crashed" Kodiak is cause of the colour rendering difference between and V-ray and Scanline render. Same can be achieved by using Scanline but after a large of amount of trail and error...(I'm an interior designer by the way and that model looks bad ass and doesn't need any changes unless you want to go super twin with original)

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using 3ds max 9, which has only the Scanline renderer and Mental Ray renderer.

I could easily adjust the texture or the color of the main light sources to get closer to the crash site colors.
However, this building version was never planned to be exactly like the crash site.
It's just a by-product of another project. There was in fact never a building version planned at all.
So i'm not investing more time than necessary into this.

In addition:
-The crash site version also has horrible lighting, since it lacks shadows entirely. So i don't even want to get very close to it.
-you will (surely) never see this Kodiak building direct next to the crash site ingame. Thus no one will notice color differences when they see the crash site in an ion storm lighting map and the building version in a bright sunlight map, where both maps have different lighting themselves.
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SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:21 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Looks good LKO

The newly chamfered edges really improve the model alot!
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malius123
Disk Thrower


Joined: 14 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow Aro that building is amazing. talk about thinking outside the box

LKO: couldn't the damage frame be a Cut and paste job, using the cracks and broken bits from the crashed vanilla version.or is that just as much work deconstruction it in 3dmax

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not so easy.
-the model is using procedural textures only, such cracks would be the first bitmap texture. To UVW map the bitmap texture on the right place would also change the procedural maps UVW location
-the crash actually has only 2 or 3 spots with a different damage texture and 2 or 3 places with model changes. the rest is pretty undamaged/unchanged
-as a damage frame we don't want it to look like it's unable to take off again, but just damaged with a few visible scorch marks, holes and cracks in the hull.
Such damages need to be modeled to look good and can't be done with different textures only.

\Edit
oh, you mean cut and paste in 2D image editing.
No, that's a definite no-go for me as 2D image editing is imo a rather useless job. A 3D model can be used in many other ways again (rendered from other angles, different light, animated etc), a 2D image edit is only that and can't be used anywhere else again.
In addition are there other people here who are 1000 times better in image editing than me.
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malius123
Disk Thrower


Joined: 14 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your right its way to much effort, had a little pop and the effect is minimal its doesn't look damaged enough. no matter how much cloning, smudging or even free hand goes into it.

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SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say on closer inspection the mid section is lacking in detail on the model compared to the WW model.
There are quite a few differences which you can see just by looking at crashsite vs yours.

Really depends on how similar you are going for however Smile
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could you describe/mark the places/details that are different/missing?
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Regulus
Commander


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: The Lone Star State

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks amazing. I had been doing something like this for TSAE before my harddrive shit the bed. My only critique is that the "middle" chassis part is a tad too wide compared to the WW crash site, if that is what you're mostly basing it on. The windows in the stern area are a pixel or two too wide. Other than that ztyping amazing.
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Exley
Commander


Joined: 09 May 2011
Location: X-Files

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

too bad TS cant have flying SHP like TD had #Tongue
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a small update, now having a simple damage frame (just the texture changed to show dark scorch marks, dirt and missing metal panels)

raw frames included in the zip


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LKO_KodiakBig3.zip
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome. Now I'll have to make the TS client use it Very Happy
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

still needs some implementation work though, since it's not centered correct for any building foundation yet. Might even need to be split up into separate parts (4x4 and 4x2).
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I implemented it as a 6x4 structure and used impassable overlay to fill up the rest of the foundation (it doesn't matter that these cells will be always impassable since you'll instantly lose the mission when the Kodiak is destroyed anyhow). For other situations you could just use immune, non-selectable and non-targetable 1x1 structures with Image=none and attach a trigger to both them and the Kodiak to make them self-destruct as soon as the Kodiak itself is destroyed.


I did notice that after I properly centered the Kodiak within the canvas, the Kodiak ended up with stripes through the image in the bottom-right area. It turns out that saving the SHP with compression 1 prevents this from happening.
The next issue was that the Kodiak's bottom side overlapped units as if they were behind or under it and this was fixed by removing those pixels from the SHP and making that part into a bib instead.

I attached my edited version of the Kodiak below, along with an edited version of the "Weather the Storm" mission, for whoever wants to see the new Kodiak in that mission before the new TS client build is released.


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Stripes caused by compression 3.
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Kodiak overlapping units at the bottom.
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Kodiak3.png
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The version of the Kodiak that's included in the zip file (with a bibshape using compression 1).
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kodiak.zip
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An edited version of the Kodiak, to be used with a foundation of 6x4 and either impassable overlay or invisible structures to block off the remaining cells.

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 Filename:  kodiak.zip
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gdi11a.map
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The "Weather the Storm" mission for the TS client. Works with both the TS client and vanilla versions of TS, once the Kodiak in the attached zip file has been added.

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 Filename:  gdi11a.map
 Filesize:  130 KB
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few more modifications.

Changes include color/contrast changes, blackened windows, remap
version also for normal facing, reduced damage effect, dimmed the
SW facing, applied damage to SW facing, TSClient version and others.


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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow the blackened windows don't really look like glass anymore though. They more look like black plates that are placed on top of the windows, instead of actually in the windows, if you know what I mean.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, you implemented her already. looks good ingame. Smile

Does she need remap? No need for picture editing. I can also add remap to the model. Or render her damage frame in the SW facing again.
Compared to a 1 sec camera change, the picture editing surely made a lot more work.

I can also change the windows texture, but i found it very well fitting to the FMV version, where they are shown as this bright grey surface as well.
Considering the crash site is showing an empty (no interior lights) shutdown Kodiak on a dark map, it would also explain the dark windows there. Maybe they also got all destroyed, so nothing can be reflected in the missing windows.

\Edit
attached the raw frames for the other 3 facings (NE,NW,SW)
Still no remap, but i don't think she needs it.


LKO_KodiakBig3b.zip
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X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it'd be a good idea to make the windows into an active anim and making it 25% or even 50% transparent (so that the ground below shows through) in order to make it seem like the windows are really reflective?

Edit: I gave it a try with just the top windows and tried out different transparencies.

I included the SHPs as well in case you wanna try it out for yourself.


Kodia windows.png
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0%
25%
50%
75%
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Kodia windows.png



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Damfoos
Grenadier


Joined: 27 Mar 2016

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who thinks the Kodiak was that small in vTS simply because a small one is much easier to defend? Like, you can quickly move your troops from one side of the Kodiak to another, you can also surround it with walls. This Kodiak looks great, but you'd either have to spare more money now to have units covering it from both sides, or you will have a delay of few seconds (compared to vTS) until your units can reach the left/right side to react to upcoming threat. I think if you are going to add it in TS client, some balance adjustments have to be made, it should be possible to surround it with walls at least.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Bittah:
I don't really see this as such a big improvement.
What's the problem with the windows in the first place? The color, brightness, texture?

@Damfoos:
The AI in that mission was so poor, it almost never attacked in the first place (except the 1 or 2 scripted attacks right at the start and the already deployed 1 or 2 artilleries).
Even if the AI would attack, it would be up to the player to put his defense line not next to or behind the Kodiak, but far in front of it. So no enemy can reach the ship.
The map also had a few choke points further right of the start location, which when blocked, made your base, the Kodiak and the first 3 Tib fields completely safe.

Only the Ion Storm bolts which can now hit the bigger version easier and more often could pose a threat, but that's an easy adjustment.
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does indeed make the mission a slightly harder, but it's certainly still beatable. I could increase the strength from 1500 to 1750 to compensate though (since its bigger size also makes it easier to hit now).
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
@Bittah:
I don't really see this as such a big improvement.
What's the problem with the windows in the first place? The color, brightness, texture?

While I don't really dislike the original windows, they do appear too bright with the Ion Storm lighting enabled. Possibly this could be manually fixed by editing the SHP itself, but it might then again look wrong with different lightings or when it's surrounded by different terrain (such as snow).

So my thought was that by making the windows transparent, they'd look fitting when surrounded by all kinds of terrain and lighting.

Edit: Maybe an actual animation that makes the windows constantly shift in brightness (like with DTA's RA war factory) would be fitting? That way it gives the impression something is actually going on inside.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Lin Kuei Ominae for this beautiful 3D model!

I would love to see the results that you could have, using Substance Painter (standalone) or Quixel Suite (photoshop plugin).
Don't get me wrong, you have done a great job with the texture but these softwares allow to add scratches and sharp edges easily.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a bot just post that last message?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Rolling Eyes
A bot wouldn't have (probably) passed the Captcha test.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost thought about a bot advertising 2 programs as well Smile

The tools look interesting. Thanks for the links.

Though since i try to keep things simple, i avoid as good as possible any UVW mapping and bitmap textures. For the tiny ingame graphics it's enough to use 3ds max procedural textures (e.g. Noise, Splat, Tiles etc), which can be simply slapped on any model and they wrap nicely around any model.
Any texture adjustments are also instantly done in 3ds max, unlike external image files which need a separate editor.

btw, many bots still manage to get around the captcha. unfortunately
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