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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum
quick question regarding shooting
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malius123
Disk Thrower


Joined: 14 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject:   quick question regarding shooting Reply with quote

so been busy with a bunch of ideas and went alittle crazy on a particular idea. now i hit the realization that i cant implement it actually ingame

is it at all possible to have fixed turrets that shoot sideways to the relative position of the unit? like a boat or airship fireing off broadside cannons. from my knowledge the FLH doesnt cover this aspect , or is there some numbers/code trick i'm unaware off.

the 2 work arounds i can think of is an airburst weapon coded in some fancy manner. but i'm particular interested in the ashethic of the unit turning to its side to shoot a broadside cannons barrage. which i reckon is only possible with an attack animation aka shp based unit.

havnt yet looked in to animation overlays, well above my skill grade.

any thoughts or knowledge is appreciated.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as you already noticed, aside from a SHP firing anim this is not possible.
Also not really viable with an SHP firing anim, since it looks stupid when the unit always rotates on the cell for the broadside, especially on long objects like ships, and after each shot rotates back to normal position (firing anim has to end like it has started, or you see jumping frames from the last firing frame to the following standing frame).

Airburst isn't helping here. The spawned next stage (for Airburst & Splits logic weapons) always launches the projectile facing directly south/down, which then rotates towards the target again. Even with the first stage being an invisible dummy, this wouldn't look like a broadside or sideways fired projectile.


The only thing that comes a little bit close to that is a homing projectile (ROT>0) on a turreted unit with TurretSpins=yes.
Homing projectiles are already fired 11.25° before the turret is directly facing the target. Thus with a TurretSpins=yes turret, the missile would be fired a tiny bit to the side (11.25° to the side)


You can also test what happens if you combine TurretSpins logic with FiringSyncFrame1 and FiringSyncFrame2 in art.ini.
With FiringSyncFrame you can delay a shot on an SHP unit, and since the turret constantly spins via TurretSpins, the added delay might make it look like the weapon is fired to the side. Though it could also happen that it doesn't fires at all anymore.
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malius123
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Joined: 14 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice will try that out.

as with the shp idea, i thought it would be possible to animate the turn, shoot then using art.ini skip the turning part  using fireup? pretty rusty on my ini codes these days, the down side would be finding a new target, would reset the animation cycle and look a tad silly.

making the cannons ammo based would limit the repetitiveness of seeing the crudly done workarounds but then brings more problems like the effectiveness of an ammo based artilery piece


the final idea would be to use the intended unit ideas as an entire package, in the form of a airstrike. or low tech super weapn have the fleet of airships fly in animate their attack aka the broadside barrage then fly away.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fireup is for infantry only
you can't use art.ini to skip a part of the firing anim

ammo on vehicles doesn't work in TS. there is no working Reload key, aside from moving the vehicle on a repairbay for ManualReload

good luck getting the animations and the timing of the independent explosion done right to create such an effect.
A simple anim like this

takes already
-6 SHPs with exact start end frames
-12 art.ini anims with helper/dummy anims to get the timing of the different anims right
--init anim to start playing 2 anims instead of only 1 (so you can have the explosions independent from the aircraft)
--dummy anim to delay the explosions on ground
--dummy anim to spawn multiple explosions via art.ini debris
--anim for the aircraft
--anim for the missiles
--one anim for the approaching aircraft and one for the disappearing aircraft
--some other dummy and helper anims to spawn the other anims
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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LKO the king of art.ini hacks.
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Last edited by XxpeddyxX on Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More like the king of pussywagons.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only ride my pussy mammoth

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malius123
Disk Thrower


Joined: 14 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
fireup is for infantry only
you can't use art.ini to skip a part of the firing anim

ammo on vehicles doesn't work in TS. there is no working Reload key, aside from moving the vehicle on a repairbay for ManualReload

good luck getting the animations and the timing of the independent explosion done right to create such an effect.
A simple anim like this

takes already
-6 SHPs with exact start end frames
-12 art.ini anims with helper/dummy anims to get the timing of the different anims right
--init anim to start playing 2 anims instead of only 1 (so you can have the explosions independent from the aircraft)
--dummy anim to delay the explosions on ground
--dummy anim to spawn multiple explosions via art.ini debris
--anim for the aircraft
--anim for the missiles
--one anim for the approaching aircraft and one for the disappearing aircraft
--some other dummy and helper anims to spawn the other anims


yes LKO this is exactly the sort of direction i needed. its kinda what i expected, a complicated onion skin of anims and dummys etc, if you dont mind me asking though why does it use 6 separate shps. one shp for the plane and the rest for projectiles? will have a look in dawn of tiberium ages inis to see how your examples done.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-SHP for the approaching plane using meteor logic (*1)
-when it's time to shoot the missiles, the plane SHP splits up into an SHP of the plane flying for another 2 frames (*2) and via TrailerAnim another anim is spawned, which will play the missiles animation
-another SHP for the turning aircraft, which i have split up back then into 2 SHPs (*3)
-an SHP for the disappearing aircraft using Translucent=yes, so it turns more and more transparent over the last 6 frames giving it a nice fade out

There is actually another 7th SHP which is CLRANIM. An SHP with only empty frames. This is necessary so you can create all the timer dummy anims, which wouldn't work with Image=none

(*1) DTA is using meteor logic for the aircraft, so the engine renders automatically a shadow on ground.
The missiles however are an ordinary anim, which doesn't cast shadows. Because the missile are visually flying down, the engine rendered shadow would also fly down, which is wrong and would look bad. Thus no shadow for the missiles.

(*2) Since meteor logic moves a tiny bit the SHP, the whole plane couldn't be done as a single SHP, because the missiles needed to be launched from the current plane position. If a dummy timer would have been used at the start which then plays the missiles with a certain delay, the missiles would have been played from a bit different location than the slightly moved plane.

(*3) no clue actually why i did that, probably a result from different tests to get the missiles done right, as they were once part of the plane anim. But that looked wrong with the engine generated shadow for the missiles, taking away the illusion of them flying down to the ground.
In 3ds max the whole animation is only a single file and for the SHPs it was easier to just make certain parts invisible and render again, so all separate SHP parts line up exactly again afterwards.
So splitting the long plane anim up into smaller parts made it easier to exchange them with a different render, without having to SHP-convert the whole anim again.
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