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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Consequences of the Pentadecimal System
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject:   Consequences of the Pentadecimal System Reply with quote

It's time to talk a bit about the future of Ares. Ares 0.E has been out for ten days now, and from what I gathered it was received benevolently so far. There are at least two things that could need some more work: adding more Alternative FLHs now that more weapons are made possible by a solution that would also work on FLHs, and changing the new warhead effects to apply even if conventional damage was reduced by verses. I suppose that's reasonable.

Modders have asked about the new features I'm working on, and as always have proposed more things to add to a hypothetical "Ares 0.F" already. But I don't think that's gonna happen, because that assumes the version numbers are at least hexadecimal and they could go on and on -- but they are not. They are pentadecimal, and if you go back and check then you'll see that all version numbers so far up to 0.E have been. And there it ends.

Ares is reasonably stable given its amount of features. I could give you a concrete number here, but I was too lazy to count them. Let's say it's two. Ares is also relatively fast even with all the new features in place. I also should have measured this before making such a statement of fact, but then I thought adding a tactical "relatively" there as a weasel word in case someone objects to that claim is a bit less time consuming.

But don't worry, there will be another Ares release (as an alert reader you'll have noticed I'm talking about the future of Ares here, not its non-future), which I planned to call Ares 1.0. Ultimately, for it is actually the fourth attempt.

A release should be worthy of that name, though. Ares is an ongoing project, and it has to definite goal to reach and no direction to move into. It's an assortment of features and fixes. Thus, there's no final destination for to go to, and it's never really done. Obviously it cannot have every feature imaginable, but it definitely shouldn't lack something that's supposed to be there.

Yet, there has always been the shadow of the past that prevented Ares from leaving the preview stage indicated by a zero in front of the version number, and a proper release without resolving that issue wouldn't make any sense. So that's what shall be the big goal of this release: finally adding support for savegames.

It's a big goal and it has many intricacies that need to be tested, so I can only encourage you to test early and often. You can start immediately; I uploaded a new binary already. Mind: only use this for testing. The files will not work forever because for practical reasons this build will break automatically soon, so don't even think of using this productively yet.
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maestro21
Civilian


Joined: 25 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save games...Everbody knows that ,this is the most beautiful but alsothe most  difficult part of Ares production...I know someday will come and it will be completed Perfectly...But  I think there is still time to wait..Thanks for great efforts that made Ares already Ultimate Enhanger...If save games work with Ares, nothing is impossible for YR anymore, I mean, piece by piece... Wink

Last edited by maestro21 on Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is fantastic news
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Starkku
Energy Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Thank you for your hard work on previous versions of Ares and best of luck implementing save games for 1.0.
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deathreaperz
Commander


Joined: 20 May 2013
Location: Creativity Corp, ID Division

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This encourages me alot to do campaigns again.
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Speeder
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Point Hope

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand why this build will break soon, its not like the game is constantly getting updates from EA that require the hooking offsets to be reset? What is going to cause it to break?

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DerxwnaKapsyla
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 26 Dec 2013
Location: Wherever you want

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EA may not be updating the game, but Alex continues to update Ares. Considering that saves save and load the data of the existing engine, all its variables and tags, and several other things, it can reasonably only load that which is the same as it. Since Ares plans to continue, saves, as a result, will continue to break with each change made to the engine. The addition of new unit tags, among other things, will cause the save/loader to not function with existing saves.

It was something along those lines at least.
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blade wrote:
I don't understand why this build will break soon, its not like the game is constantly getting updates from EA that require the hooking offsets to be reset? What is going to cause it to break?

It's what would be called planned obsolescence, an artificial breaking point to ensure this build is not used productively and people won't rely on it. Done to for example to discourage MO players to applying this unstable build themselves and creating a desync mess for everyone. And to discourage people from creating savegames and then sticking to this very version because the next version might (it's possible though not guaranteed) be incompatible to the savegames.
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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically you've timed bombed it? There is no technical reason that it will break? I sort of get the thinking behind it, but I think its a bad precedent to set.

At the end of the day, what does it matter if people stick with it if it works for their save games for the mods they use? It should be up to modders to push new versions and tell them that their saves will break if they want the latest mod version.

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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry AlexB, no errors so far after a couple hours of testing. Loading saves with units that no longer exist work; saves with more and less players work; everything stays in its attack/harvest/move/sell state when loaded; And the saves even load smoothly.
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blade: Yeah. Players should wait for the actual release, which still isn't guaranteed to work perfectly because there are always some bugs, but at least it's different from using something productively that hasn't got even a bit of public testing.

I concur with what you said regarding new versions: that's indeed for the modder to decide -- though only for the final, supported release versions, not for a quick sketch which people might take for the real picture. A disappointing first impression can't be corrected easily, no matter what you do afterwards.

From my experience making players aware of Ares like that at all just doesn't happen. Players are only made aware of Ares when something doesn't work or the game crashes and the Ares error dialog pops up. By that Ares takes responsibility even for old WW bugs, Windows, driver, firewall or antivirus issues, and errors made by modders -- which at least from my point of view has been close to a PR desaster.

4StarGeneral: Thank you, that sound good!
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zocom7
Soldier


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the best news I have heard in a long time, Alex. This will help Mental Omega a whole lot better.
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Artraiden
Civilian


Joined: 23 Apr 2017

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why there are no features in AI.ini,for example new commands for AI (haijacker & saboteur AI logic like engeneer),changes old or it not possibly for changes?

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Starkku
Energy Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only issue with S/L I've noticed so far is that after loading a game, all superweapons launched will play a sound event, even if they do not have one, specifically the first item listed in soundmd.ini [SoundList]. This appears to happen even in vanilla game + Ares.
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Speeder
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Point Hope

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't noticed that.
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starkku wrote:
The only issue with S/L I've noticed so far is that after loading a game, all superweapons launched will play a sound event, even if they do not have one, specifically the first item listed in soundmd.ini [SoundList]. This appears to happen even in vanilla game + Ares.

Seems to be an easy error to make. I don't know about this exact case, but I fixed this kind of error with the activation sound last year already... Maybe there are more. Thanks, looking into it.
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cxtian39
AA Infantry


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: The United States of China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Request DontSayUnitReady=
When producing some fake unit acting as a Prerequisite (imitating Ra3's Japanese Upgrade/Breakthrough), you don't want EVA to say "Unit Ready. NCO". Just NCO

There already exists DontSayUnitLost= Smile
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MRMIdAS
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I finally get back online properly and this awaits me. I'm looking forward to this. Smile
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I uploaded a new binary, which should fix the issue with super weapon sounds after loading.
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Starkku
Energy Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took few days for me to finally test it, but the SW sound issue is indeed fixed in this new unstable build.
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