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About big units visual-wise.
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chr0nicz420
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject:  About big units visual-wise. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For instance if there's a unit that has 2x3 or 3x4 cells in size visual-wise, the game considered that as like 1x1 and that's the default since Westwood's voxel are originally small so when they flock together, they're very unnatural to look at like they're mashing up together.

Is there a code that I've yet to know or does Ares has a feature that you can adjust a unit's size? I mean not the size that is used for Amphibious Transports but the size that the game will considered that certain unit can cover 2x3 cells or 3x4 cells to match the unit's visual size.

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope...

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chr0nicz420
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I see... But I can't believe that Ares doesn't have a feature for this given that we're now getting/creating tons of huge and some insanely huge units since we're already on a era of huge units and not Westwood's miniature ones.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I actually prefer the 1x1 'unit-buildings'.
The reason why I hate 3D games, or just can't love them as much as 2.5D, is because of this. They severely mess up the pathfinding.
It makes unit movement seem a lot dumber than it should be.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The whole game is built on a single cell system so to implement larger unit sizes would require redoing core parts of the RA2 engine.

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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chr0nicz420 wrote:
But I can't believe that Ares doesn't have a feature for this given that we're now getting/creating tons of huge and some insanely huge units since we're already on a era of huge units and not Westwood's miniature ones.

Features don't magically pop up after some milestone was reached or the software matured for years. It's still work somebody has to do.

In this case, there was the idea to add foundations to units, but it has never been completed. The feature affects path finding and locomotor code, and there are most likely several checks that assume units are only occupying a single cell. But I haven't looked into this that much, so I can't give a specific reason why it wasn't completed. Could also have been non-technical reasons.

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is it even possible to complete tho? Just curious.

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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Slave miner is the only 2x2 unit in game I believe

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When deployed, yes.

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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TAK02 wrote:
When deployed, yes.
No no no...
It doesn't grow bigger when deploys, and doesn't give you an impression of overlap when undeployed... do you know the magic?

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nothing in the art-entry.
And I'm kinda confused at what you're getting at...
All units take up one cell, they can just look bigger, it depends on the voxel/SHP (what does that one stand for? SHaPe?)...

Then you have SimpleDeployer, which deploys into 1x1 building (I think? Or is this a unit-to-unit conversion with the new form forced into stationary?)
Then there's DeploysInto, which can be a custom foundationed building

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One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Because its size is deliberate, not too large to be oversized as a vehicle, and not yet too small to fill a 2x2 foundation... it's art...
Spoiler (click here to read it):
#Tongue

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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Undeployed Slave Miner is an ordinary vehicle, occupying a single cell. If there were a 2x2 unit in the game, this feature would be easy to do by just copying that behavior. But it's not like that.

This feature might be possible, but I haven't tried, and most likely won't, sorry.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the Slave Miner's VXL stats:
Dimensions: 45x31x76

SCALES
Scale: 0,0833333358168602

BOUNDS
Min X: -22,3501625061035
Min Y: -0,35095477104187
Min Z: -38,1845817565918

Max X: 22,2540969848633
Max Y: 29,9467296600342
Max Z: 37,3157501220703

Make of those what you will.

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One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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4StarGeneral
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe something could be done with copying train logic, but still, we're talking converting a system that's moving 1 cell to moving 4 cells for a 2x2, 9 cells for a 3x3, and it just becomes an exponential mess. Pathfinding will have to take into account that each cell can be moved to the next space and it already has enough problems trying to move 1 cell half the time. Imagine moving a building. So before anyone says, "but all you have to do is [this] in [this] way," I wouldn't even bother trying it either, there's so many more easier functions people have requested.

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

4StarGeneral wrote:
Pathfinding will have to take into account that each cell can be moved to the next space and it already has enough problems trying to move 1 cell half the time.

The reason why 3D games' game-play tends to suck more than not Very Happy

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One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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MRMIdAS
Energy Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

God, the roundabout route some units take sometimes boggles my mind.

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That bug has been around since E:BfD, whose W3D Engine was the predecessor to Generals', C&C3's, RA3's and the game-that-shall-not-be-named.

And the fact that none of those games fixed it shows how difficult it must've been.
That, or Westwood didn't have enough time to fix it, and EA never cared.

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One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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MRMIdAS
Energy Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TAK02 wrote:

That, or Westwood didn't have enough time to fix it, and EA never cared.

Oh, I wonder which one it might be.... <s/>

Cos EA genuinely care about their customers, as proven with such games as FIFA and Battlefront 2.

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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One reason people hate EA is that they bought and killed "great" studios.

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MRMIdAS
Energy Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cxtian39 wrote:
One reason people hate EA is that they bought and killed "great" studios.


well, that was the original reason.

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TAK02 wrote:
That bug has been around since E:BfD, whose W3D Engine was the predecessor to Generals', C&C3's, RA3's and the game-that-shall-not-be-named.

And the fact that none of those games fixed it shows how difficult it must've been.
That, or Westwood didn't have enough time to fix it, and EA never cared.


Please just stop spreading this false belief of E:BfD being predecessor engine to C&C Generals or C&C Renegade, it's NOT! Given how big difference in file formats, only common factor is the donated/augmented sound engine, else it's all UK studio (Intelligent Games) custom engine.
E:BfD engine is called Xanadu AFAIK what I discussed with former developer of it. Only predecessor to Generals is C&C Renegade engine wise.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Odd. I remember reading that 'false-fact' somewhere on the dune forums, but if you say so.

That, and ModDB lists E:BfD as being the prototype engine to Generals, W3D->SAGE, I believe.

Either way, E:BfD engine is best engine Very Happy

EDIT: Xanadu? Really? Does anyone here know what Xanadu really is? There are two right answers!

Spoiler (click here to read it):
1) The world of virtual reality from Code Lyoko, the pilot episode "Garage Kids", I believe.

2) A... company of sorts in Serial Experiments Lain, which apparently served as inspiration for Garage Kids, and ultimately Code Lyoko.

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One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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tomsons26lv
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ModDB is full of all sorts of bullshit.
Aside from YR's audio engine, BINK video code, network code, WOL and subtitle code, BFD is its own thing.

IG had that engine prior to BFD already, its used in their LEGO games, with BFD it gained the 3D factor. Last game to use Xanadu is Universal Monsters: Monsterville.

And yes only released earlier full W3D game we have is Renegade, Pirates: The Legend of Black Kat is some sort of mix of Westwood code and what might be EAGL(EA Graphic Library)(most common use is from NFS1 to NFS World).

Last edited by tomsons26lv on Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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TAK02
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dunno what IG is, and subtitles for E:BfD?`How to enable those?

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One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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