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OS SHP Builder questions
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Colos
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 12 Nov 2014

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject:  OS SHP Builder questions
Subject description: A set of questions regarding OS SHP Builder
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After working with OS SHP for a bit, I now have a few questions regarding its capabilities:

1. Can you batch convert images to .SHP? I know you can convert .SHP to .anything but can you do the opposite?
(ex: I have 20 .PNG's can I batch convert them all to .SHP?)

2. If you can't batch convert images to .SHP, do you have to convert each image individually?
(ex: Do I have to convert each .PNG one at a time?)

3. Is there a way to use a pallet that is in .RES format in OS SHP Builder?
(ex: I have a pallet that is in .RES, can I make it work with OS SHP Builder?)

Lastly, here is a question for utilities other than OS SHP:

4.  I hear only bad things about TibEd. Can I use parts of TibEd THEN use OS SHP?
(ex: Are there function of TibEd that can be used elsewhere or is it best to avoid using that program?)

I'd really appreciate having these questions answered as my entire project depends upon them.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. no
2. yes. though i think this would be good enhancement for Image Shaper.
3. no. never heard of that format. if you provide info on how it's structured, i might be able to implement it in Image Shaper.
4. no. scrap TibEd, you gain nothing and only limit your modding capabilities in this bad working, error producing, ini-ruining thing.
A text editor like Notepad++ is all you need to edit the inis, where you can do more than with the limited TibEd.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding 1) and 2), if you have your images named as YourImageName_XXXX.PNG, where XXXX starts from 0000 and is properly ordered, you'll be able to convert all those images as one SHP file with one operation (File => Import => Image -> SHP).

3) There is no support for .RES palettes on OS SHP Builder. Likewise LKO, I am also unaware of this file format.

4) You can use both programs together. If you plan to build your mod with different people it is not recommended to use TibEd, since it cut comments and make your rules.ini very disorganized. TibEd is useful for people who have no clue how to mod and want to know some of the things that can be done in the game, but as LKO said, it is better to mod without it, using a text editor like Notepad++.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Scrap TibEd, you gain nothing and only limit your modding capabilities in this bad working, error producing, ini-ruining thing.
A text editor like Notepad++ is all you need to edit the inis, where you can do more than with the limited TibEd.

FYI, TibEd is the reason I even got interested into modding. Even the first versions of SRA2 were made using the 'limited TibEd'.
Where's OrangeNero when you need him?
Banshee wrote:
You can use both programs together. If you plan to build your mod with different people it is not recommended to use TibEd, since it cut comments and make your rules.ini very disorganized. TibEd is useful for people who have no clue how to mod and want to know some of the things that can be done in the game, but as LKO said, it is better to mod without it, using a text editor like Notepad++.

Thank you!

My two cents: Regardless of if you're planning on working alone or with others, I recommend you don't just modify the INIs, but also keep track of the changes in a separate text file*. That way, you can pinpoint IEs better. Maybe even make a 'change/check-list' too.
Oh, and remember to make backups of working code in-case you mess up the code and have no idea where that happened.

*I also recommend keeping a flag's original value instead of deleting it, like this:
[SMCV]
...
Cost=10 ;3000
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m7 wrote:
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Colos
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 12 Nov 2014

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thanks for the feed back. Sadly the .png's I'm working with do not seem to be in order, at least from what I can tell. Regarding the .RES format, its typically used for graphics or text, like a UI. The format is used by a few Source-based games. It was also apparently used by Westwood at one point. It 's supposedly written in Delphi or C++. But that's really the least of my concerns now that I have to convert every single image one by one.  Wall bash!

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tomsons26lv
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Res is a common extension name, just cause its the same extension doesn't mean its the same format it 99% of the time has nothing to do with each others. For the record Westwood's RES are containers, primarily for bitmaps.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colos wrote:
now that I have to convert every single image one by one.  Wall bash!

Check out the latest version of Image Shaper Wink

In addition, 20 files are not that time consuming to convert one by one.
In my over 10 years of SHP creating and modding, i actually never had the need to create SHPs via a batch process. So if you don't want to convert dozens of cameos, i have no clue for what this could be actually useful.
Anyway, Image Shaper has this functionality now.
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X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colos, you don't need TibEd. TibEd is a false promise - it only corrupts your inis and gives you a fake impression you being a master modder, however itself useless for to being used for all the complicated tricks one are able to do these days.

Besides Image Shaper, IIRC Mixer can also do batch-SHP creation though.

TAK02 wrote:
Where's OrangeNero when you need him?

He's permanently banned. No sane person ever needed that egoist troll who intentionally spread crap over these boards - although we all know by now you lack sanity as well, so it's understandable you cry for the help of such.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long ago i used XCC Mixer for all conversions, though then i noticed it has a little bug, so i wouldn't recommend using it anymore for SHP conversion.

During conversion, it sometimes puts wrong files into the SHP.
IIRC, if you have multiple frame sequences in a folder and select one of them for SHP conversion, it can happen that the first frame is not of the selected sequence, but a different one.
So i wouldn't rely on XCC Mixer to correctly batch convert multiple different files into SHPs, when it gets a "hickup" already on a single sequence that isn't the only one in the folder.


I think SHP Builders (and Image Shapers) color conversion is also a bit better than XCC Mixers result.
Do we have info from Olaf which formula he used for his color conversion? (is it weighted euclidean as well)
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SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

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X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

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tomsons26lv
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

Do we have info from Olaf which formula he used for his color conversion? (is it weighted euclidean as well)


https://github.com/OlafvdSpek/xcc/blob/master/misc/palet.cpp#L163
maybe
_________________
Tiberian Dawn, Red Alert, Tiberian Sun ,Red Alert 2,Renegade, Command & Conquer 3,Tiberium and Tiberium Wars and Westwood related image & video archive
https://picasaweb.google.com/113361105083292812413?noredirect=1

Skype live:tomsons26
Don't forget to state who are you otherwise i'll ignore the invite

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe? No, you mean "of course it is".

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Long ago i used XCC Mixer for all conversions, though then i noticed it has a little bug, so i wouldn't recommend using it anymore for SHP conversion.


Only Mixer is capable of creating spritesheets from SHPs and back (not different frames but those megaimages) and no way I'd use Image Shaper or fire up a command prompt for generating shp+pal combos from my 256 colored PNG cameos for OpenRA. Color conversion doesn't even matter at those cases, since the images are already indexed.
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Only Mixer is capable of creating spritesheets from SHPs

SHP Toolz also does it but with BMP not PNG.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
Where's OrangeNero when you need him?
He's permanently banned. No sane person ever needed that egoist troll who intentionally spread crap over these boards - although we all know by now you lack sanity as well, so it's understandable you cry for the help of such.
Still assuming you're a saint, I see.
_________________
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Youtube: C&C Supremacy Mod | Skype: TAK02 Supreme CnC Mods
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomsons26lv wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

Do we have info from Olaf which formula he used for his color conversion? (is it weighted euclidean as well)


https://github.com/OlafvdSpek/xcc/blob/master/misc/palet.cpp#L163
maybe

Banshee wrote:
Maybe? No, you mean "of course it is".

ah, i see. thanks
Checked and confirmed. But it's not the weighted euclidean algorithm, just the simple euclidean formula.
Thus the slightly worse quality compared to SHP Builder and Image Shaper which use the weighted euclidean formula (at least i think it is true for SHP Builder since i haven't found the place in the code and only compared the results with Image Shaper that does use it).
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SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

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Colos
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 12 Nov 2014

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, new question:

I have a set of sprites all in one .shp but the sprites towards the end of the set begin to over-lap with one another. (Ie, the sprite for a death animation is now in the background of a standing animation.) Is there a certain limit of animations for each .shp? Or do I need to add animation pannels? (Ie, add a "Death2" to the sequence?)

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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By default SHP Builder considers SHPs to have shadows and shows the 2nd
half of the frames overlapped in preview. You can disable that in Options.

Couldn't understand the question.

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Colos
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 12 Nov 2014

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
By default SHP Builder considers SHPs to have shadows and shows the 2nd
half of the frames overlapped in preview. You can disable that in Options.

Couldn't understand the question.


Its as if two different sprites are overlapping. Maybe its just the settings like you said. But here is a mock-up of what I see.


Example.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  606 Bytes
 Viewed:  2364 Time(s)

Example.png



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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still can't understand the problem. Why there is white square in it? Can
you attach a sample shp?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

he made a mockup, presumably in paint. It's no SHP Builder screenshot.

@Colos: try the Options\Shadows function and notice yourself how it works
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

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