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Something that annoys me.
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chr0nicz420
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:47 am    Post subject:  Something that annoys me.
Subject description: Type=ForceShield and IronCurtain.
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This may look like a rant but it seems I want to share this as I need some sort of clarification.

So I'm trying to create a super weapon that it'll use Type=IronCurtain as a ForceShield instead of ForceShield itself so it'll make a black shield and will be different from the ForceShield. However, the consequence of that is AI won't use the IronCurtain for Iron Curtain teams anymore. Basically I have 2 Type=IronCurtain super weapons, one has SW.AITargeting=ForceShield and the other has none, hoping that AI will use the original Iron Curtain for Iron Curtain teams but unfortunately they aren't using it at all.

In all honesty, I really want to create custom Force Shield super weapon that uses different color, particularly black, without changing the original ForceShieldColor but it seems there's no way for doing that... unless I'm missing something.

Another thing that it makes me curious that why there's no "SW.AITargeting=IronCurtain"(Same goes for ChronoSphere) so ALL possible Iron Curtain duplicates will be used "appropriately" when AI creating Iron Curtain teams. And this will be able to make a Type=IronCurtain super weapon which its purpose is a Force Shield super weapon while having also another Type=IronCurtain for offensive purpose if we can't have a customized ForceShield/IronCurtain/Berserk colors.

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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The original iron curtain shouldn't be affected if you simply adding a new iron curtain sw with SW.AITargeting=ForceShield.
AI atm can't use new iron curtain/chronosphere in the way they use the original ones as said in the documentation
Maybe it's too complicated to code #Tongue ? It's not like other simple targeting method in which you just choose a target and bomb it.

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chr0nicz420
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cxtian39 wrote:
The original iron curtain shouldn't be affected if you simply adding a new iron curtain sw with SW.AITargeting=ForceShield.


That's what I thought at first too since I didn't do anything to the original Iron Curtain but it seems it's not on my case. I might try some experiments if they'll use the Iron Curtain for Iron Curtain teams eventually while retaining my custom Iron Curtain as Force Shield replacement.

And yes, that's what my curiosity starts. I'm thinking on how and/or why it's complicated to code when on AI creating Iron Curtain/Chronosphere teams, they will just use an available Iron Curtain/Chronosphere but stating that its coding is complicated does that mean the AI is fixated on only using the original Iron Curtain/Chronosphere?

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The AI script number 55 (Activate Iron Curtain on TaskForce) is hardcoded to only work with the original Iron Curtain. The same limitations applies for the ChronoSphere AI scripts 56 & 57 too. So any clones of either superweapon will only be usable by the player.

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chr0nicz420
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So is it not possible in the future that Ares will do a work around on instead of AI checking the original Iron Curtain, they'll check SW.AITargeting=IronCurtain? (Same goes for Chronosphere)

If it's not possible, how about we can have a customized Force Shield/Iron Curtain/Berserk/Airstrike colors?

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MRMIdAS
Energy Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chr0nicz420 wrote:
So is it not possible in the future that Ares will do a work around on instead of AI checking the original Iron Curtain, they'll check SW.AITargeting=IronCurtain? (Same goes for Chronosphere)


It's possible, might be worth making it a request.

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chr0nicz420
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I wonder if Alex is reading this and might consider this possible SW.AITargeting=IronCurtain. As this can be very useful for making offensive teams with super weapons that are not just solely for using Iron Curtain but like AttachEffect with limited duration super weapons.

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MRMIdAS
Energy Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My (hacky) solution would be to wire all "Iron Curtain" or "Chronosphere" supers to the same action, or, make the action numbered, like "Cast iron curtain" is "55,0" in scripts, so what if "55,1" was "Iron Curtain troops" and "55,2" was "Iron Curtain Vehicles" and so on?

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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm reading this, but hadn't time yet to answer. I need some more time to give a meaningful answer.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I looked into the colors when I recoded the super weapons, but deemed it too much work to get right for the effect it achieves. If a force shielded building is iron curtained, the colors just change from one to the other. They don't mix, and they aren't active at the same time. So, if the Iron Curtain in this case fades earlier than the Force Shield, the color won't change back to blue.

The AI uses the first Iron Curtain for the script action. If you have more than one Type=IronCurtain SW, the code will find the first one, fire if it's ready or wait when it's almost charged. It will always ignore all others. This behavior is entirely hardcoded.

I'm thinking about adding a fake targeting type that doesn't fire manually, but change the script action to look for those. I wrote some code to also continue search for Type=IronCurtain, but I found this alone a bit useless, because for example GenericWarheads with AEs would be nice boosters for attacks, too.

Chronosphere is yet more complex and would need more work. I'll have to see what to do with that one.

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chr0nicz420
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So it's extremely hard-coded then... But do you think you could be able to do a work-around on Type=IronCurtain AI targeting or how about making a completely new SW.AITargeting and also a new script action? Or maybe am I asking too much?

As for the Iron Curtain/Force Shield/Berserk colors, is it not possible to make them able to customize like to radiation beams?

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ApolloTD
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Iron Curtain/Chronosphere AI targeting is misleading in a way, as it actually doesn't literally target anything, rather it just activates the superweapon for the very specific taskforce of units if it is built and present on the field, else it will not be activated at all.

Any uses of this mandate ai script use and that can be limiting as game would have whole wait until super is done so can use it to support the team and issuing such things for any AE ability supers could keep the units waiting in base for too long and base get crowded jam or alternatively wait on the field if use for many many attack teams like you preferably would want for any 'buff' supers.

At worst, this halts AI attacks to wait mode too much and AI just won't be challenging given attacks delay notably so not sure customizable all new script command for new aitargeting type is so called perfect solution, good for limited uses but in wider scope not so.

What would be handy is the reverse of current enemy targets options into allied ones so AI would cast support basicly more randomly to its army instead of specificly told one taskforce and this could potentially seem intelligent or dumb depending on timing but unfortunately game probably keeps poor/none following of the own/allied units for this unlike enemy.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RadBeam colors aren't ambiguous. The RadBeam firing has exactly one color. For IC/Force Shield there's only one variable storing the duration, and one more to store the type. There's no way to combine such effects as I explained above. That means, having a custom color would be possible, but not having it interact perfectly when short and long term effects overlap.

I think the idea of the IC script is quite good, actually. That is halting script until IC is charged, then fire it and attack. It could be made better, by not only looking at the first IC.

Just buffing some random units would be more useless. For example, in Zero Hour the Chinese buff ability is often wasted on units just standing in the base. Also, the AI needs to know how the effect is used best: buffing attack or defense, being idempotent on units already having the effect (think cloak bonus on cloaked units), ...

The AI cannot know what the modder intended some bonus to be used on. It has to be told. At least by defining whether some SW provides a bonus for aggressive or defensive teams. No idea whether SW.Targeting would be the best way here, because an IC could be used for attacks as well as for protection if Force Shield isn't ready. But that would be two different Targeting types.

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