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Is it possible to make a combat medic?
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Timburwolfe
Civilian


Joined: 15 Aug 2014

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject:  Is it possible to make a combat medic? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all, I am currently making an infantry addon for the Twisted Insurrection mod, which makes use of several of its Forgotten (mutant faction) assets to begin making another mutant faction, which I call the Kriosan Confederacy. To save you all the wall of text that is the premise for this mod, I have put the story behind it in a spoiler below.

Spoiler (click here to read it):
Where the Forgotten are followers of Tratos, and generally are the result of Nod experiments who seek a cure for what has been done to them, the Kriosan Confederacy is a splinter group named after their own leader, Krios, who embraces the idea that Tiberium is the next step in human evolution. While one would assume this means Krios would at least be supportive of Nod if not allies with them during the events of TI, this is not exactly the case. Like many of the Forgotten, the mutants of the Confederacy were unwillingly subjected to Kane's experiments in the Divination project, and were largely doomed to suffer rampant, debilitating mutations following Kane's disappearance, without the scientific guidance and expertise of the enigmatic leader.

Feeling betrayed by the Brotherhood upon learning of Kane's disappearance, and being told that Divination was no longer possible, Krios orchestrated a prison break, taking hundreds of fellow mutants with him and eventually joining the Forgotten, hearing that Tratos offered the sanctuary and support that neither Nod nor GDI was able to provide them. Using the Tacitus, Tratos had some limited success in preventing and even reversing most of the negative effects of their mutations. Renewed with hope, Krios began his tutelage under Tratos, learning how to interpret the Tacitus and the visions it gave him, and for a time it seemed Tratos had an aspiring successor,
at least until Krios discovered what had made Kane so determined to prove that humans could be altered to thrive in a world overtaken by Tiberium;
what Tratos had been decoding in his own project to completely reverse the effects of Divination.

He saw visions of genetic manipulation; The very same process by which Kane would have augmented Michael MacNeil, had he not disappeared. He saw how Kane's DNA was stored within a great library maintained by the Scrin, and then he had an epiphany; Only now did he realize that the experiments he and his fellow mutants were subjected to was a frantic, impatient effort to find individuals like himself, whose DNA made it possible to survive and benefit from contact with Tiberium, before the planet became inhospitable to the rest of humanity. He saw plainly what Kane, in his limited contact with the device, had only partially translated: That the DNA of such individuals was the key to accomplishing the evolution that Kane sought to bring about in humanity.

Frantically, Krios began making notes and calculations, and eventually used the Scrin ship's laboratory to devise the means to prove his theory, based on his own DNA and using himself as a test subject. When he presented his findings to Tratos, the latter was greatly disappointed, convinced that Krios was at risk of following Kane on a path to self-damnation, and may lead other mutants down his same dark path. While Tratos insisted he wasn't blind to his disciple's accomplishments and admitted that he was quite impressed with what had been discovered, he could not allow Krios to put himself or their Forgotten brethren in danger, and expressed his hope that his disciple would put his research to use in finding a cure for tiberium mutation.

Krios was torn; On one hand, Tratos was perhaps the closest friend he had, even among the many friends he had among his fellow mutants, he respected the man's opinion greatly, as well as the desire of many of his brethren to undo what had been forced upon them without their consent. On the other hand, he himself did not consider the mutations to be anything less than a boon to humanity as a whole; after all, he was stronger, faster, and more agile than he had ever dreamed of becoming prior to the experiments, and he wasn't the only one who embraced the powers the mutations granted him.

His next words were said with a heavy heart, as he began copying his notes on the process of Divination down. "I am sorry, Tratos. As greatly as I value our friendship, and as grateful as I am to you for all you have done for me and our brethren, I am afraid the time has come for us to part ways. I fear that my dedication to my own research will only prove a divisive influence, and I prefer it that I go my own way, before it has a chance to tear the Forgotten asunder." he pauses, sliding the original draft of his research across the table to his mentor. He then continues. "You will likely not agree with me that our kind could live in lasting peace with those not gifted with the power to survive exposure to Tiberium, and I understand why. While I wholeheartedly embrace the gift I have been given, I do realize that not everyone is of the same mind, even among the Forgotten. I leave you with the sum total of my discoveries, in the hopes that by studying them, you can successfully reverse the effects of tiberium exposure, and promise that any who wish to be rid of their mutations will be guided here. In return, all I ask is that you tell anyone who inquires after me the whole truth of why I have gone, and let them make up their own minds on what to think about it. Some may wish to leave, and some may feel betrayed by me and want for vengeance. That is preferable than the risk of this place of sanctuary to break out into civil war over our opposing opinions. Goodbye, and good luck, my friend."

With that, Krios made his preperations to go into self-imposed exile, saying his farewells and explaining to those who insist he explain himself why he must go. Of all the mutants in the enclave, a few dozen choose to leave with him, the vast majority of them being fellow test subjects whom he had freed from the clutches of Nod and guided here so long ago. His new collective of like-minded shiners struck out on their own into the inhospitable crystalline jungles, and it was there that they not only survived, but are now beginning to thrive...


With the help of what Krios learned from Tratos and the Tacitus, the mutants of the Confederacy have further evolved to suit the environments in which they now live. The roster so far is in the spoiler below:

Spoiler (click here to read it):
Kriosan Hunter

Serving as the scouts of the Confederacy, Hunters have taken to Fiend-taming as a rite of passage, with the most experienced hunters having a sizable pack of them at their beck and call. Not merely helping to corral and herd the striders that help feed the enclave, the fiends serve as fierce protectors of the hunters themselves, fighting ferociously against the beasts and machines that the long-ranged rifle and hurled nets of the Hunter is of little use against. While they are swift and deadly against enemy infantry, they are vulnerable to attacks from vehicles like Kazuar and Scatterpacks, against which their rifles are useless. Hunters rely on their ability to slowly camouflage themselves in order to ambush prey and to be effective in their role as scouts. One must be mindful of their positioning, as it takes a few moments to get out of sight once the shot is taken.

Kriosan Vanguard

Fulfilling the opposite role of the fleet-footed hunters are the enclave's most stalwart defenders, the Vanguard. Originally (and unimaginitively) so-named due to their role in defending the unarmed vans used as trasportation during the enclave's nomadic stage, the Vanguard are most recognizable for their dense, hydraulic-assisted armor and use of a jury-rigged Vulcan cannon. Such is their strength that they can even use the massive weapon to target aircraft, and while their weapon is not as effective against armored vehicles as rockets or grenades, they have the strength and density to halt a tank's advance, protecting Enforcers standing behind them from being run over while they are aiming their RPGs.

Kriosan Enforcer

The Enforcers make up the bulk of the enclave's warriors, who are more than a match for GDI's Rangers or Nod's Militants with their heightened resilience, double-barreled shotguns, and ability to regenerate in tiberium fields. They also carry RPGs, making them effective against many types of light vehicles, and even small groups of tanks if they can get within range, though they arent likely to stop a tank column without hard cover or Vanguards to keep them from getting crushed. They have no defense against aircraft beyond their base or the range of Vanguards, and they arent as durable against flamethrowers as their bulkier brethren. (Statistically, they have less health than Incinerators, shoot less often, and do less damage per attack, though they do have heavy armor to the incinerator's none and can run faster)

Kriosan Lifeguard

As the battle-hardened, all-female combat medics of the Kriosan Confederacy, the Lifeguards are most often responsible for treating the wounds and tiberium poisoning of civilians freed from Nod facilities, as well as ensuring as best as they are able that their patients are brought safely to GDI once they are healthy, or bringing them to Tratos and the Forgotten if the poisoning has progressed into harmful or accelerated mutation. When a shiner woman becomes a Lifeguard, she swears an oath that she will allow no harm to befall her patients while she still draws breath, even if that means suffering mortal wounds to protect her wards. To that end, she carries an M1 Carbine in addition to her medical supplies.

Kriosan Salvager

While they are clearly the most opportunistic and kleptomaniacal of all the mutants in the Kriosan Confederacy, the Salvagers are nonetheless respected for their ability to capture, drive, or repair almost anything they come across. They carry a blowtorch, and a surprising amount of proficiency at performing field repairs, being able to bring a damaged vehicle back into serviceable condition in mere moments after repairs have begun. Unlike the engineers of other factions, the Salvager is willing and able to return fire if he's being shot at, making use of a pair of M1911s he keeps on his person at all times.

Kriosan Raider

The shiners' hatred of the Inner Circle personified. Armed with stealth tech stolen from Nod Ghosts, a unique pair of Uzis, and more stingers and C4 than you can shake a stick at, these elite few are called upon, five at a time, to crack the toughest installations and eliminate the hardest targets. Raiders are by far the most versatile mutants in the Confederacy, and they are also the most expensive by a significant margin. A squad of them can rip through just about anything it encounters, including aircraft and structures, but they will require transportation if the intended target is not accessible by infantry alone.


The biggest snag I am hitting at the moment is devising some means for the Lifeguard to be able to heal friendlies whilst still retaining the ability to fight enemies. Does anyone know how I might accomplish this?

Bear in mind, that I am designing this to work with Twisted Insurrection.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not possible.

A unit with a negative damage Primary weapon will switch into repair/heal mode, where it only targets friendlies automatically and ignores enemies.

If Primary has pos Damage, it will target enemies and not friendlies.

Thus it doesn't matter if Secondary is using a heal/repair weapon.


Only with a vehicle you could use deploy logic, for one mode using repair, the other for damage. But not both at the same time in the same mode.

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Timburwolfe
Civilian


Joined: 15 Aug 2014

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In theory then, couldnt you use a secondary weapon as the healing one?

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Tuc0
Missile Trooper


Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
not possible.

A unit with a negative damage Primary weapon will switch into repair/heal mode, where it only targets friendlies automatically and ignores enemies.

If Primary has pos Damage, it will target enemies and not friendlies.

Thus it doesn't matter if Secondary is using a heal/repair weapon.

Not sure if it would work, but could be this accomplished with secondary weapon that use "Split Logic" weapon with negative damage and with high spread?
By force-firing on ground could heal infantry in 3x3 area, or with dropping projectile it could spread heal around him.
If you don't want to other objects to be affected by "heal", split weapon warhead should have only values for none armor. This would also mean that light armored infantry couldn't be healed this way.
Also another downside is that same firing anim is used for both firing and healing.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, with force firing this is possible, but not a really convenient way to use ingame, with most players being unaware or too stupid to use it right.

In addition would any such effect also heal/repair enemy units in the area.

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Tuc0
Missile Trooper


Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the past I wanted something similar for repair vehicles, to be able to recover units from EM effect, but I had some trouble force-firing if negative damage weapon exists. The EM effect can be overwritten with newer one, so attacking with low duration EM will interrupt long-lasting one.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that could be done pretty well with a Splits weapon.
-first stage with negative damage to get the repair/heal targeting
-second stage with the low duration emp warhead
ProjectileRange=0 to always immediately split into second stage

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5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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Tuc0
Missile Trooper


Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
that could be done pretty well with a Splits weapon.
-first stage with negative damage to get the repair/heal targeting
-second stage with the low duration emp warhead
ProjectileRange=0 to always immediately split into second stage

I wanted it to be used as force-fire ability, because at least damage=1 needs EM effect and it would looked strange to see blue electric bolt on each regular repair. Also if unit has full health,repair-vehicle won't force-fire.

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Timburwolfe
Civilian


Joined: 15 Aug 2014

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tuc0 wrote:
Not sure if it would work, but could be this accomplished with secondary weapon that use "Split Logic" weapon with negative damage and with high spread?
By force-firing on ground could heal infantry in 3x3 area, or with dropping projectile it could spread heal around him.
If you don't want to other objects to be affected by "heal", split weapon warhead should have only values for none armor. This would also mean that light armored infantry couldn't be healed this way.
Also another downside is that same firing anim is used for both firing and healing.


I was actually thinking about giving the Lifeguard a healing dart or grenade, but I'm not exactly sure how to do that. I know how to add new warheads and weapons, since I did that while trying to create the unit, but this is the first I've heard of split logic.

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Timburwolfe
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Joined: 15 Aug 2014

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tuc0 wrote:
it would looked strange to see blue electric bolt on each regular repair.


Not if you write it off as being an arc welder.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Timburwolfe wrote:
this is the first I've heard of split logic.

check out the Twisted Insurrection Cyborg Reapers QuadLauncher
QuadLauncher fires a DualCluster projectile, which Splits into 2 DualRockets

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5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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Tuc0
Missile Trooper


Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Timburwolfe wrote:
this is the first I've heard of split logic.

Also do not forget to add split weapon to some dummy unit to prevent IE.
All existing weapons should be attached to at least 1 unit.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tuc0 wrote:
Timburwolfe wrote:
this is the first I've heard of split logic.

Also do not forget to add split weapon to some dummy unit to prevent IE.
All existing weapons should be attached to at least 1 unit.

But, IIRC, with Ares you can put it in a WeaponTypes list, and thus avoid these crashes.

Unless this has changed and I wasn't made aware.

NVM. Forgot this is TS, not YR.
Apologies.

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Timburwolfe
Civilian


Joined: 15 Aug 2014

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
check out the Twisted Insurrection Cyborg Reapers QuadLauncher
QuadLauncher fires a DualCluster projectile, which Splits into 2 DualRockets


Tuc0 wrote:
Also do not forget to add split weapon to some dummy unit to prevent IE.
All existing weapons should be attached to at least 1 unit.


Using what I was able to learn from you guys, here's what I came up with. I decided the Lifeguard would be better served as the vehicle immobilizer to the Hunter's role of infantry immobilizer than she would be as a healer, and instead I will make a Shaman unit to be the healer. I also used the method you suggested for the split healing weapon to hopefully make a vehicle repair projectile for the Salvager's secondary. Here's what all I came up with for the weapons and dummies:

Spoiler (click here to read it):
[KDUMMY1]
Image=E1
Name=Heal Cluster Dummy
Category=Soldier
Primary=LifeguardHeal
Strength=100
Pip=green
Speed=3
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
Cost=100
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
ThreatPosed=0

[KDUMMY2]
Image=E1
Name=Blowtorch Dummy
Category=Soldier
Primary=SalvagerHeal
Strength=100
Pip=green
Speed=3
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
Cost=100
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
ThreatPosed=0

[ShamanHeal]
Damage=-100
ROF=10
Range=15
Projectile=PulsPr
Speed=50
Warhead=Organic

[HealLauncher]
Damage=0
ROF=170
Range=10
ProjectileRange=0
MinimumRange=5
Projectile=HealCluster
Speed=50
Warhead=FRAGHE
Report=FIREWEB1

[HealCluster]
Image=WEB
High=yes
VeryHigh=no
Shadow=no
Proximity=yes
Cluster=5
Ranged=yes
Range=0
AA=no
AG=yes
ROT=100
Color=DarkGreen
Splits=yes
AirburstWeapon=LifeguardHeal
IgnoresFirestorm=yes
RetargetAccuracy=100%

[SalvagerHeal]
Damage=-25
ROF=10
Range=5
Projectile=Invisible
Speed=100
Warhead=Mechanical
Report=REPAIR11
Anim=TISPARK2,TISPARK3

[Blowtorch]
Damage=0
ROF=170
Range=2.85
ProjectileRange=0
MinimumRange=2.85
Projectile=BlowtorchCluster
Speed=100
Warhead=FRAGHE
Report=REPAIR11
Anim=TISPARK2,TISPARK3

[BlowtorchCluster]
High=yes
VeryHigh=no
Shadow=no
Proximity=no
Cluster=5
Ranged=yes
Range=0
AA=no
AG=yes
ROT=100
Color=DarkGreen
Splits=yes
AirburstWeapon=SalvagerHeal
IgnoresFirestorm=yes
RetargetAccuracy=100%

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