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A few OpenRA development topics
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pchote
Disk Thrower


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject:  A few OpenRA development topics Reply with quote

Development has slowed down a lot recently, but OpenRA is far from dead. I wanted to write something to bridge the news gap until our next official news post, so here’s a brief update on a couple of recent projects. We hope to ship these plus many other changes in a new playtest series starting in a few weeks.

One big change affects how we package and distribute our "official" OpenRA builds on Linux. For many years we have automatically generated a deb package, but then relied on downstream packages for other distributions. This has worked well in most respects, but sometimes delays in updates would strand players on older versions, stopping them from playing online. Another long-standing issue on many distros is the (lack of) support for installing playtests and releases at the same time, as players are able to on Windows and macOS.

Our solution to these problems is to adopt the AppImage packaging format, which allows us to distribute a portable version of OpenRA that should work on most modern Linux distributions. AppImages can exist alongside normal distro packages and even other versions of OpenRA, which makes it perfect for trying out playtest versions without overwriting the stable release. We will be retiring our deb packages and OBS repository as part of this change, but fear not because stable OpenRA releases are also available on Flathub if you prefer a "proper" installation that integrates more closely with your system.




A sneak-preview of the new download page featuring Linux AppImages.


Our modding community has continued to be a major focus, driven in a large part by active discussions with and Pull Requests from the modders themselves. We have recently achieved two major modding milestones which we are looking forward to support from the next playtest:
  • Feature parity between the Mod SDK and the main OpenRA mods: the Mod SDK can now package Linux AppImages alongside the existing macOS .apps and Windows installers. Mods now also integrate properly with the online and in-game server lists (no more "Unknown Mod (id)"), and modders can define their own acknowledgements text to be displayed in the in-game Credits dialog.
  • Improved tools and documentation for mod updates: Updating mods to a newer OpenRA engine has historically been difficult and prone to errors. We have developed a completely new OpenRA.Utility command that significantly improves on the old command for semi-automating the update procedure. More information about this tool and how to use it can be found on the Mod SDK Wiki.


Another major project over the last few months has been identifying and eliminating performance bottlenecks in the graphics renderer. These changes have roughly doubled the FPS that can be achieved on many systems, which is great news for for Tiberian Sun and some of the ambitious community mods where modest systems previously struggled to achieve a stable 60 FPS. It is useful for our default mods too, because less time spent rendering the game means more time is available to smooth over other performance hiccups that can occur during large battles, resulting in a smoother play experience.

The main driver for this work has been a project to improve OpenRA’s performance on the latest Raspberry Pi devices. These changes have improved performance from a painful 10 FPS during large battles (using the Red Alert main menu as a test case) to a more tolerable 20 FPS. We are still not happy with performance on the Pi, and have identified several areas in the game code that could be targeted to improve performance further. We hope to be able to officially support a Raspbian release in the future once performance has improved to an acceptable level.



Renderer improvements (red and orange lines) significantly improve performance on a Raspberry Pi 3B+.
The next target for optimisation will be the tick_time (light blue line).


The upcoming playtest includes several other great features that I haven’t covered above as well as the usual set of iterative balance tweaks and bug fixes. Keep an eye on the development changelog and release milestone over the next few weeks if you are curious about the full feature set and progress towards a release.

At the end of May we made the jump to a new forum, splitting away from the old Sleipnir’s Stuff content. See this thread for more details. This move opens up a number of opportunities, such as resurrecting our plans (which were prototyped and then shelved in 2016 due to lack of web developers) to include an in-game authentication system that can be used to securely identify yourself to game servers and other players, instead of relying on insecure passwords or IP addresses. This may not be completed in time for the next release, but if it isn’t then we plan to make it a priority for the following one.

We still receive a lot of questions about a release date for the Tiberian Sun mod, and unfortunately the answer has not changed in the last year: we don’t know, but it won’t be soon unless we can attract new developers with the right skills to help. Progress is still being made on gameplay features (e.g. we recently merged support for placing gates on top of walls, and the special logic for tiberium critters), but a release is blocked by a handful of critical bugs and missing features that cut deep into some of the oldest and ugliest parts of OpenRA’s code. Resolving these issues takes a significant amount of work, and we currently only have one person (with very limited time) with the knowledge required to tackle them.



Tiberian Sun progress has all but stalled due to lack of manpower.


While the mod is broadly playable, it is still missing some important features (e.g. super weapons) and other important features contain game-breaking bugs (e.g. subterranean units, cloak generators). We would have to disable these features if we wanted to release a public build now (like we did in the early days of Red Alert, Tiberian Dawn, and Dune 2000), and try to rebalance the rest of the game around their absense. This is not a path we want to repeat after our experiences with Red Alert.

OpenRA’s Red Alert mod is well known in the C&C community for including a collection of arbitrary gameplay changes that were not in the original game or series. Many of these changes were introduced in the early days of OpenRA to help balance the game and make it play well despite missing core gameplay features (back then these were things like like 5 infantry sharing the same cell or a proper implementation of the “classic” engineer behaviour). Over time, these changes became entrenched, for better or worse, as part of OpenRA’s identity. Many of these changes are considered almost universally positively (e.g. the fog of war, unit veterancy, Flak Trucks), but others have been much more controversial (e.g. Hinds on the Allies, Kill Bounties, re-usable engineers).

This dichotomy between "Original Red Alert" and "Original OpenRA" has caused significant conflict among our players and contributors on the forum and the community Discord channels. These discussions were reignited last year by the change to building auto-targeting, and have increased in passion with recent discussions about finding a way to move Hinds back to Soviets and removing Kill Bounties as a default feature. On one side of the issue are thoughts that the RA mod should abandon some of the changes that don’t make sense in the world of Red Alert 1 (e.g. Kill Bounties, but not the Flak Truck) and instead double down on the things that made the Command and Conquer series memorable. On the other side are thoughts that it is exactly these changes that made OpenRA great, and that it is an insult to our community to discard these features motivated by misplaced nostalgia.



The Allied Hind. Hero, or heresy? Let us know what you think about OpenRA’s gameplay changes below!


We would greatly value input from the wider OpenRA community on the topic, so leave your thoughts in the comments below or on our new forum. The results of this discussion will steer the future direction of OpenRA’s Red Alert mod. Please aim to be polite and constructive; comments that insult or abuse others will be moderated.

Key Words: #News #OpenRA 

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duplicated from the original article on the OpenRA website.

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NimoStar
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
so leave your thoughts in the comments below


Why would allies have a Hind? Specifically it is a soviet-designed helicopter.

And in Red Alert history west and east were never together.

I am not a purist of the original game but from the point of view of flavor, this is a fail.
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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

having to manually open your ports is a joke. i usually dont bother playing this cause im too lazy to modify my router settings to get it to work. not to mention no one plays it. and its nice they admit that they screwed up their red alert game because of early limitations of their game engine. i liked their tiberian dawn version tho even tho its basically nothing but unit spamming. their default game speed and settings are a joke. have to up the game speed and get rid of fog of war. moronic settings. people actually like playing at 10fps crazy newbs... i knew their tiberian sun game was screwed after playing their alpha releases of it. its never going to replace tiberian sun any time soon.

i look forward to playing command and conquer rivals on phone emulator more than openra lol.

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pchote
Disk Thrower


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
having to manually open your ports is a joke.
I know, right? Good thing that OpenRA has supported UPnP in various forms for automatic port forwarding since 2012...



Overall that was only like a 3/10 troll post, surely you can do better than that?

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal (EA ShortBus) is a well known community troll on every C&C community forum that I have heard of, pchote. Don't take his words to your heart. It's not worth the hassle.

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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to the Hind...I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's like a WW2 game giving the Americans the Tiger Tank. A Cold War game giving the Soviets the F-14 Tomcat. Mixing up iconic military hardware like this tilts the living shit out of me. Gameplay, ignorance of history, there's no good reason for me.

Especially when there is a public asset that was made specifically to address the issue. I always was curious when I read the OP in that thread, about how it will never be used? Why? Got that goofy-ass Flak Truck marauding around, which looks nothing like the stock WW assets, but that's a-ok....
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't OpenRA implement 2 helicopters, one for each side and end the debate of who gets the Hind?

Any flak truck should probably resemble the old German half-track since RA1 seems to have so much focus on German hardware already.
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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVA-251 wrote:
With regards to the Hind...I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's like a WW2 game giving the Americans the Tiger Tank. A Cold War game giving the Soviets the F-14 Tomcat. Mixing up iconic military hardware like this tilts the living shit out of me. Gameplay, ignorance of history, there's no good reason for me.

Especially when there is a public asset that was made specifically to address the issue. I always was curious when I read the OP in that thread, about how it will never be used? Why? Got that goofy-ass Flak Truck marauding around, which looks nothing like the stock WW assets, but that's a-ok....


openra doesnt deserve to be played because of things like this and other blatant failures to make decisions to properly promote it and stylize it.

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Nolt
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
EVA-251 wrote:
With regards to the Hind...I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's like a WW2 game giving the Americans the Tiger Tank. A Cold War game giving the Soviets the F-14 Tomcat. Mixing up iconic military hardware like this tilts the living shit out of me. Gameplay, ignorance of history, there's no good reason for me.

Especially when there is a public asset that was made specifically to address the issue. I always was curious when I read the OP in that thread, about how it will never be used? Why? Got that goofy-ass Flak Truck marauding around, which looks nothing like the stock WW assets, but that's a-ok....


openra doesnt deserve to be played because of things like this and other blatant failures to make decisions to properly promote it and stylize it.


Yeah lets ignore all the good things the engine has, attack move, stances, aircraft that dont require korean micro, palette support, constant development. Oh no, they moved a helicopter, oh no, the game isnt about tank spam anymore, what a failure!
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is some people are confusing OpenRA's superb and vastly superior engine with one of its mods.

But it's not that hard to do so, considering RA is in the name. So you can expect people coming only to play original RA1 on a new engine with features from succeeding engines.

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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Can't OpenRA implement 2 helicopters, one for each side and end the debate of who gets the Hind?

ORA's idea is that the Soviets get fixed-wing aircraft (Yak and MiG), with the APC providing transportation, while Allies get helis (Hind, Apache, Chinook).

Fixing it your way or with new graphics isn't hard, but the notion of the Allied Hind has become entrenched in their meta. I guess the Yak being implemented as a single-cell infantry eraser as opposed to a strafing aircraft doesn't help. (makes it functionally identical to the Hind)


and seriously Nolt, you don't need to feed the troll
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure the Hind ever had a use in vanilla either honestly, the Soviets seemed to get thrown a lot of tech without too much thought for their actual purpose.

Perhaps the best solution would be to just use the TD Nod Apache and name it that? Then its not a Soviet rip off but could be functionally the same. The Hind can be disabled but kept for map usage or modders. Or just disable it and not even replace it if its not necessary.

Thinking about it, not sure if the Longbow actually uses the TD Apache art.
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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK the Allies already have the Apache as well as the Hind.
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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:
Not sure the Hind ever had a use in vanilla either honestly, the Soviets seemed to get thrown a lot of tech without too much thought for their actual purpose.

I'd say it's far worse with the Allies. Some Soviet units overlap in role, but the Allies have 6-8 units that frankly could be completely removed and would have no impact on the faction's competitiveness in vanilla.

Which is something OpenRA does a good job fixing, in all fairness.
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Former Project Lead Developer Star Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007)

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NimoStar
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But giving soviet units to the allies is not a fix.

It's like saying, "yeah now allies have tesla coils and V2 and soviets have cannon turrets, its more balanced that way"

. . .

This destroys the gameplay immersion, you can't just move a Soviet unit to the allies and call it a day. At the very least rename it and change the asset to fit.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it so hard to replace the Hind with the Cobra for the Allies and end this stupid discussion?

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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Why is it so hard to replace the Hind with the Cobra for the Allies and end this stupid discussion?


if i ran their operation i would make it closed source. i would then remake all the graphics to make my own rts games. i would demand money. i would modernize their website to look like a retail game rather than some trashy opensource shit hole. they wasted all that time and energy to make a unpopular C&C knockoff.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

luckily for us, you are incompetent and would never achieve something as valuable, useful and generous as the OpenRA devs.

Unfortunately for us, there is nothing that you can contribute for anyone, so the best you can do is to go away (which would be the biggest contribution you can ever do). Just go away and never come back.
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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
luckily for us, you are incompetent and would never achieve something as valuable, useful and generous as the OpenRA devs.

Unfortunately for us, there is nothing that you can contribute for anyone, so the best you can do is to go away (which would be the biggest contribution you can ever do). Just go away and never come back.


I think you're giving OpenRA too much credit. we all have passions. That doesn't mean its generous or valuable. Giving access to a project that is so unpopular that it can't surpass the playerbase of the original and with numbers so low its unplayable most of the time. Asking others to do the work because you can't do it alone. Failing to get the help it needs because of how unpopular it is. Let's not forget all the people wasting their time and energy to use that project to host their mods that no one plays. I would say OpenRA is actually a negative impact on the community.

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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:
Let's not forget all the people wasting their time and energy to use that project to host their mods that no one plays. I would say OpenRA is actually a negative impact on the community.

I fail to see how this is any different to what has been the status quo in the CNC community for a LONG time.
Classic CNC's modding scene has been reduced to a few mega-projects and an assortment of mods that go largely unnoticed and/or never be finished. That's the harsh and cruel reality of modding in a dying community like this one. In this regard, OpenRA is a source of vast potential for this community. Its open source nature means it is not relegated to the grindy tank-spam that is the backbone of classic CNC titles (and thus their mods)

(and really, modders are motivated by more than just having as many people as possible play them...there's more to it than that...)
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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVA-251 wrote:
Mechacaseal wrote:
Let's not forget all the people wasting their time and energy to use that project to host their mods that no one plays. I would say OpenRA is actually a negative impact on the community.

OpenRA is a source of vast potential for this community. Its open source nature means it is not relegated to the grindy tank-spam that is the backbone of classic CNC titles (and thus their mods)

(and really, modders are motivated by more than just having as many people as possible play them...there's more to it than that...)

"OpenRA is a source of vast potential for this community."

Interviews with Tiberian Sun devs specifically state that Tiberian Sun was designed to eliminate the rush aka unit spam strategies with larger maps slower units and emp cannons and other things that can destroy giant balled up armies. it came down to more tactical assaults like subterranean apcs and carryalled base destroying specialty units. the same can't be said for the majority of other C&C games though. Sadly, the majority of C&C fans don't appreciate that aspect of Tiberian Sun and like spammier C&C titles. this has nothing to do with the game engine limitations. OpenRA is still way more limited than RA2 and Tiberian Sun. even tho OpenRA has things like the attack move command which is great for unit spam games.

Yes we both accept that modding for 99% of people is a waste of time even if we are creating our dream games through modding. the end result is usually a halfbaked piece of crap that is dead on release. mods like CNC Reborn Renegade X and even some of the more popular mods for RA2 and Tiberian Sun struggle to have any players online. Did these people waste their time? Yes. And if they were a company they would have shut the games down and moved on. People only make mods because of their obsession which is basically a mental illness that a lot of people refuse to accept as a bad thing.


release public assets etc will usually never be used for anything good. which reminds me i wanna play brutal doom mod. its pretty cool, lol. you know what's not cool? OpenRA. even though i like their Tiberian Dawn game its dead in multiplayer. so oh well.

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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly Mechacaseal doesn't give any valid points ever, you might as well ignore him. He just spends his life trying very hard to belittle others because everything he does is a failure (like trying to sell 'a halfbaked piece of crap that is dead on release' made from the public project material he seems to hate so much). And frankly, he knows nothing about OpenRA and shouldn't even be a credible anything in this community thread.
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Nolt
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh so it was him who made the TS dlc? Then I take to heart what EVA told me to do, we all should, idk what is wrong with him but I already think the project is succesful, considering there are already a few mods in the works.

Also, I completely agree with what @Banshee says, I dont play RA, and I hate historical accuracy, but if people are going to complain about a having a helicopter that you can barely see on the wrong side, make another one and get over it, RA units are so small that the new unit might end being identical. I dont mind making a new heli myself tbh.
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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TS's gameplay is nothing like what you described, when between humans.

Tank (Titan) spam is still prevalent. It's not a surefire game winner like it is in other CNCs, but that's not because of any sophisticated game design. It's just because AA defenses are really, really weak. Almost every online TS match I've watched ends with the players trying to bludgeon the other with blobs of Orca Bombers (if they're crazy enough to play Nod, Banshees).

Carryall + Disruptor/MMkII micro helps disrupt the other player's economy and slow the massing of aircraft, and that's about as advanced as TS gets.
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Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-), RA Tweaked (2015-)
Former Project Lead Developer Star Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007)

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah TS is abysmal to play, unless you're just casually city building in it. It's basically a tech demo as I see it, besides the campaign. Lots of funky mechanics thrown in that do not make the game interesting or fun. Nice ideas, but practically they do not work out.
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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVA-251 wrote:
TS's gameplay is nothing like what you described, when between humans.

Tank (Titan) spam is still prevalent. It's not a surefire game winner like it is in other CNCs, but that's not because of any sophisticated game design. It's just because AA defenses are really, really weak. Almost every online TS match I've watched ends with the players trying to bludgeon the other with blobs of Orca Bombers (if they're crazy enough to play Nod, Banshees).

Carryall + Disruptor/MMkII micro helps disrupt the other player's economy and slow the massing of aircraft, and that's about as advanced as TS gets.


youre probably watching tiberian sun adventures youtube channel which is not how everyone plays tiberian sun. my videos very rarely play like his. some people on tiberian sun like to play the terrace map and snake their base across the map and yes it ends up being titan spam and orca bomber spam with carryall and mkii being a harvester harassing unit.

THAT IS NOT HOW I PLAY even on terrace. I try to actually kill my opponent they don't. the fact you watch videos of the game instead of actually playing it yourself is funny by the way.

OmegaBolt wrote:
Yeah TS is abysmal to play, unless you're just casually city building in it. It's basically a tech demo as I see it, besides the campaign. Lots of funky mechanics thrown in that do not make the game interesting or fun. Nice ideas, but practically they do not work out.


Depends on the map you want to play on and the people you play with.

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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would I play Tiberian Sun in the Year of our Lord 2018? There are far more efficient ways to commit self-harm.
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ORA/YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-), RA Tweaked (2015-)
Former Project Lead Developer Star Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007)

Last edited by EVA-251 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EVA-251 wrote:
Why would I play Tiberian Sun in the Year of our Lord 2018? There are far more efficient ways to commit self-harm.


i tried playing a lot of games recently cant get into them. mainly the old C&C games. maybe im just burned out. but i play tiberian sun a lot usually. :/ my most played game ever.

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Kerbiter
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 05 Jun 2018

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't host a server/game because my ISP uses IPv6 over IPv4 or smth like that, so I'm in one big local network of my ISP (kinda). Server neither can't be advertised nor manually joined via IP.

and TBH with all those OpenRA changes it doesn't feel like RA1 anymore. Could we please have "classic mode" and "enhanced mode" like, for example, DTA did?
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Mechacaseal
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 29 Aug 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerbiter wrote:
I can't host a server/game because my ISP uses IPv6 over IPv4 or smth like that, so I'm in one big local network of my ISP (kinda). Server neither can't be advertised nor manually joined via IP.

and TBH with all those OpenRA changes it doesn't feel like RA1 anymore. Could we please have "classic mode" and "enhanced mode" like, for example, DTA did?


Same i have to open my ports on my router to play or it wont be advertised online. im sure that killed their game big time and they dont even know it. im tired of opening my ports just for a handful of games so i dont bother playing lol.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always offline play, people.

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Kerbiter
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 05 Jun 2018

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechacaseal wrote:

Same i have to open my ports on my router to play or it wont be advertised online. im sure that killed their game big time and they dont even know it. im tired of opening my ports just for a handful of games so i dont bother playing lol.


That's your own problems, don't compare them with mine. If you can't master your own equipment - that's your and only your problem.

What I'm talking about is me unable to advertise the game online even with  ports forwarded and UPnP enabled. In fact, it works both ways, BUT! imagine this:
my pc <-> my router <-> inet (via ISP)

that's what a normal ISP provides it's customers with. now my setup:

my pc <-> my router <-> some kind of tunnelling device which creates LAN-like connection with customers <-> inet

that's how my ISP works. the thing is that my LAN is inside of another LAN. and that's the problem cuz I'm unable to port forward thru that device Confused
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Matthias M.
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerbiter wrote:
and TBH with all those OpenRA changes it doesn't feel like RA1 anymore. Could we please have "classic mode" and "enhanced mode" like, for example, DTA did?


Yes, that is being worked on at https://github.com/OpenRA/raclassic

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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one plays my mod ever so modding is just for my own happiness
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Command & Conquer: Genetic Rhapsody

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pchote
Disk Thrower


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerbiter wrote:
now my setup:

my pc <-> my router <-> some kind of tunnelling device which creates LAN-like connection with customers <-> inet
Unfortunately setups like this are impossible to support - the way they are designed fundamentally breaks "old style" networking concepts like port forwarding.

The "modern" (ugh) solution to networking hacks like this is to provide external servers that all players connect to as clients instead of requiring players to host their own games.  OpenRA has followed this approach for many years now with hundreds of community-hosted dedicated servers that anyone can join.  I believe that most players will actively avoid joining self-hosted games in favor of playing on their favorite community hosts.  The option to self-host servers is provided for players who want to do custom things like make a passworded server for playing with friends, but we expect that most players should never use it.

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pchote
Disk Thrower


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Various paraphrasings wrote:
Player discover one weird trick that solves OpenRA's RA balancing problems
One of the main goals of the original news post was to try and explain why we can't "Just do X".  Within the active player community and even within the core contributors there are strong differences of opinion of what RA should be.  This has created a deadlock where it is extremely difficult to make any changes one way or the other.
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blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give the hind to the soviets, put rockets on it, make it a tank killer, ditch the mig, or give the mig infantry killing weapons and effektive for buildings too, ditch the yak, give the cobra to allies and the apache too. voila.


don't ditch the hind, the hind is an iconic flying tank killing fortress for the soviets.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pchote wrote:
One of the main goals of the original news post was to try and explain why we can't "Just do X".  Within the active player community and even within the core contributors there are strong differences of opinion of what RA should be.  This has created a deadlock where it is extremely difficult to make any changes one way or the other.

I would argue that's a cop-out...

You need to (as a team) decide if the players or the developers dictate the changes, if they can't both exist.

Pick a policy, stick to it.

PS. I tell people "no" on ModDB all the time... I don't get flamed for it.
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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:
Yeah TS is abysmal to play, unless you're just casually city building in it. It's basically a tech demo as I see it, besides the campaign. Lots of funky mechanics thrown in that do not make the game interesting or fun. Nice ideas, but practically they do not work out.


The single greatest summary of TS I've ever seen.
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NerevarII
Civilian


Joined: 31 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For someone who's fostering an "open, welcoming, and transparent enivronment" you turn a lot of people away. Mainly because they broke your "guidelines" which are questionable at best.......but people could could severely speed up the process of development for this game, you let personal feelings get in the way of that, which only hurts the community and game development.

You always complain about how you lack help and thing's are too slow, yet turn away those who can help GREATLY.

And you lie to make yourselves look good, among other reasons, and I'm not sure why you (and others) lied about performance. I'll recall as best I can....ahem....

"We've pretty much done a great job optimizing OpenRA and there really isn't anything else left to optimize, it's as good as it will get"

Yet here you are, calling light to performance issues and how much more work needs to be done to improve performance.

If you really cared about the community.....you wouldn't let personal feelings and grudges get in the way of providing a better experience to everyone, by allowing people to contribute to the project.

And I guess "decentralization" got thrown out of the window, too, as the game is becoming more and more centralized so you have totalitarian control over everything like a tyrant.

And that's direct violations of the licenses, if not borderline or gray area of violating them.

It's supposed to be open source, which means NOT restricting what people can do, NOT restricting the freedoms of other's, and NOT restricting other things that are tied into the games source code.

Please, if you care about the community, then at least show it.




G-E wrote:
pchote wrote:
One of the main goals of the original news post was to try and explain why we can't "Just do X".  Within the active player community and even within the core contributors there are strong differences of opinion of what RA should be.  This has created a deadlock where it is extremely difficult to make any changes one way or the other.

I would argue that's a cop-out...

You need to (as a team) decide if the players or the developers dictate the changes, if they can't both exist.

Pick a policy, stick to it.

PS. I tell people "no" on ModDB all the time... I don't get flamed for it.




Good point. The community itself is divided, and wants almost nothing to do with the dev team, because of how the dev team handles things, and how some members of the dev team act.

Some of the devs like to speak for the community, when the rarely, if ever, play the game, or even interact with the playerbase at all. Then they make decisions and say "a community effort" when it's really maybe a couple from the community, and 10-15 developers/contributes. There's thousands of OpenRA players, how can the devs represent the community when the community didn't even vote them in as representatives?

And even the devs are divided, and some have split off into MIA status, or doing their own thing like SoScared with his Unplugged mod for OpenRA.

The problem is, they won't take responsibility for anything they do wrong, and they snuff out anyone who has an opposing view or opinion about the game.

And then they wonder why the playerbase is growing smaller and smaller each day.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do not agree with the way OpenRA is being develop, which is your right to do so, the license allows you to create a fork, as long as OpenRA's license is respected.

Quote:
5. Conveying Modified Source Versions.

 You may convey a work based on the Program, or the modifications to produce it from the Program, in the form of source code under the terms of section 4, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

   a) The work must carry prominent notices stating that you modified it, and giving a relevant date.

   b) The work must carry prominent notices stating that it is     released under this License and any conditions added under section 7.  This requirement modifies the requirement in section 4 to "keep intact all notices".

   c) You must license the entire work, as a whole, under this     License to anyone who comes into possession of a copy.  This     License will therefore apply, along with any applicable section 7     additional terms, to the whole of the work, and all its parts,     regardless of how they are packaged.  This License gives no     permission to license the work in any other way, but it does not     invalidate such permission if you have separately received it.

   d) If the work has interactive user interfaces, each must display Appropriate Legal Notices; however, if the Program has interactive interfaces that do not display Appropriate Legal Notices, your work need not make them do so.

 A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extensions of the covered work, and which are not combined with it such as to form a larger program, in or on a volume of a storage or distribution medium, is called an "aggregate" if the compilation and its resulting copyright are not used to limit the access or legal rights of the compilation's users beyond what the individual works permit.  Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other
parts of the aggregate.



Using any kind of public forums for a personal vendetta with them is a big waste of your time, their time and even my time.

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NerevarII
Civilian


Joined: 31 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry that you misinterpret my post and my reasoning for posting. It's not a personal vendetta, I posted because I actually care about the community and what goes on, and seeing this, warranted a reply based on my interests of preserving the community and bettering it.

If anyone has a personal vendetta, it's them against me, not the other way around.

Besides did I say anything wrong? I'm just stating observations and facts, that are a detriment to both the community and development of the game, in hopes somebody changes something to fix those issues.

edit: thanks for the quote of the license btw, letter c.) shows one violation by pchote

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pchote
Disk Thrower


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry that this user has found his way here.  He has been terrorising us for the last few weeks after we banned him from our web services.  He has made a point of following us around the internet spouting abuse and harassment at me and other valued community members that would be comical if it wasn't so incessant.

Three assertions that he uses to justify his harassment:

1. That it is illegal to enforce community rules because this is a violation of free speech, which is a human right.
2. That it is a violation of the GPL license  to ban somebody from using your websites.
3. That we are somehow holding the project hostage, and need to die to free the community of our tyranny.

I suggest you try not to engage with this, because he already knows that these are rubbish, but hopes to "win" by exhausting us until we kill ourselves (his words).

This behaviour is NOT OKAY.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@NerevarII: If you paid attention to what you've done so far in this forum, it is really simple: you didn't even say hi. You've just used every opportunity you had to simply criticize them for not listening to you or others you consider to be representatives of the player base of OpenRA, take other people's words out of context (I.e.: G-E's quote above) and distort it to reinforce your complaints. And you've done that in 3 topics..... that and a topic you've created to share a set of maps that you can't share on their resource center.

Your obsession to attack them is one of the things that made me to conclude that there is a personal vendetta between you and part of the OpenRA developers and your last post did not change my opinion about it, regardless of how much you deny it.

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NerevarII
Civilian


Joined: 31 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Banshee okay look. Hopefully this can clear thing's up. I came here fron CNCNet, excited to jump in, then noticed OpenRA and got excited to start posting and contributing, but those topics caught my eye, and then I saw what I saw, and that's how we got here.

I'm sorry that my excitement prevented me from saying "hi" first.

Also please don't buy into what pchote is saying either. I don't want this to become a huge thing but his claims in his reply are lies and fall under defamation. If you want the truth, ask me, and if you want REAL evidence, ask me. His e"evidence" is taking thing's out of context and twisting things to make him look good, and others bad.

I'm going to have to reread what I said to comment on anything else.

His 3 numbered points, are also twisted and wrong. Smh.

edit: what did I take out of context exactly? That's a 100% whole quote from him. I just wanted to comment that I agreed with him, then moved onto what i had to say....

edit2: I would expect you to be professional about this as well, to not take peoples word as truth without evidence. Besides, what happens there has nothing to do with here.

edit3: okay i looked at my other 2 posts.....there's nothing wrong with either of them. In one I commented about their character, in the other I stated something factual that was being denied......how is that wrong or bad exactly?

I could see how you think my post in THIS thread seems like a vendetta, but certainly not the other 2. but even then, all I'm doing is stating observations and thing's that are true and thing's that are important. Idgaf about the OpenRA staff, what I DO care about is the community, and I want to get them the help that they both want and need, among other things.

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