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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum
Dark Reign mod
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akaine
Civilian


Joined: 14 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject:  Dark Reign mod
Subject description: Dark Reign mod proposition
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Hello everyone,

I'm new here so maybe someone's already mentioned this subject, though I failed to find anything related by searching through the forums.

Has anyone thought about making a Dark Reign remake on TS engine? If there is someone working on it already please point me to the right place. If not, I am willing to try to do it by myself or with anyone who would like to lend me a hand. I've got the basic knowledge on DR engine, have all the graphics, videos, music, soundsfx and other resources extracted and ready to be used in the mod. I also have some basic knowledge on TS modding. Though I think it would be necessary to recreate all the terrain and units/buildings in their respected formats (TMP, VXL). I'm not having any illusions about the size of the idea: it's a huge work that probably would take years.


The reasons

Dark Reign was one of the most advanced RTS games in its time (1997). Almost no similar game at that moment, and surely none with all of them at once, had: unit behavior control, unit automated tasking, waypoints, formation moves, building queue, unit morphing capabilities, fake units and buildings, and the list goes on. Still because of poor commercialization, strange graphics and maybe too complex, for that time, gameplay DR haven't occupied the place in RTS history it truly deserved. None the less, even the modern RTS games could learn quite a bit from this title.

The last and pretty successful attempt to revive the game was made by Magnetar Games. And they were doing great until they decided to go for money and made X-Box only release effectively canceling the PC version (which worked pretty fine btw). Their strategy was to simply duplicate the vanilla game adding high resolution support as well as some AI corrections. Though as I played through the entire campaign I saw no difference from the original version, including some AI, engine bugs, etc.

For those who are not familiar with the title:
A complete game without soundtracks and videos can be downloaded here: http://darkreign.ws/patch/

And here go some screens:
http://imageshack.us/g/1/10317254/


Why TS and not TW or some other engine?

Probably first of all it's a personal choice. I consider TS the best game of all C&C series including the graphics and the gameplay. Then goes the required experience for modding criteria, which in case of the TS is not very high. TS modding has a long history and a well worked out path: tools, tutorials, documentation, etc. Yes, compared to TW, VXL making is pain, but it requires less knowledge than fancy 3D modelling and the INIs are quite readable to be able to configure all the things needed.


The project goals

To make a complete remake/adaptation of Dark Reign in TS engine:
- Original Freedon Guard campaign adaptation
- Original Imperium campaign adaptation
- Multiplayer support (if possible)
- Partial remake of popular DR MP/Skirmish maps


Personal profile

I'm an semi-professional 2D designer with several years of experience in 2D tile engines, map making and game modding (EFS, C&C RA, HOMM3). By profession I'm a Lead Web/Java/J2EE/PHP Developer/Architect in the company I work for. Still, away from my job, I've got plenty of spare time. In terms of this particular project (DR mod) I can do:
- conceptual design (units, buildings, terrain)
- GUI design
- VXL design
- TMP design
- INI writing
- text writing
- map building
- video conversion
- Web site or community design/development

Things I'm horrible with:
- anything that has to do with sound, music, etc.
- TS scripting
- engine tweaking


Any suggestions/comments?

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kairunotabi
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Joined: 07 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a suggestion, ask a Moderator to move your topic to Public or Private Mod Announcement Forum

This is the very first time I've read about Dark Reign and it honestly struck me! I instantly fell in love with the game. Having this as a mod for TS will totally rock my world!
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Orac
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure whether TS is the right engine for the job if there are any complex logics that are required - having not played Dark Reign I can't comment, but TS isn't the most versatile engine by any stretch so I would expect you'll be meeting a lot of hardcoded limits.

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Holy_Master
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i use to play this game before and yes i like it a lot even i never beat campaign mission in that game [i'm more skirmish guy when come to RTS #Tongue ],

personally i think TS engine can do some similar thing to that game even it can't bring all of thing from that game to it, however i think Ra2YR can be better choice with ares.

[reason i think RA2YR engine should be better for this job]
- TS have Subterranean Unit Support also to YR[but still work different from Dark Reign
- TS have no Transform Spy logic while ra2yr have
- Construction Yard can't have separate graphic
- Hostage taker is impossible in TS but in YR can be make similar unit with mutation logic.
- Sky fortress doesn't seem to be possible since he need balloon hover logic that work in YR

but personally i suggest you to make dark reign inspiration mod more than try to make dark reign on TS/YR engine since it give you more freedom to design something. and even how superior TS/Ra2YR engine offer it still can't clone many feature from that game.

[Other Choice Engine]
- OpenRa

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DeathlyRose
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like he said it's for the graphics and gameplay. As for RTS i'm mostly about campaign. So if a person does a campaign wrong it grates my nerves too no end.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hostage taker? Is that something like Abductor logic?
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Gangster
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome mod consept! I was in love in DR back in a days!
But I also agree with Holy Master. TS is not a perfect choise. Even it have some similarities with DR, some features can't be replicated ever. Secondary resourse that bost you power output for exemple.

I suggest a mod for OpenRa. This way you will have a some chances to improve engine for your needs... eventualy.
Latest release support voxels and shp(ts) formats!
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Holy_Master
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Hostage taker? Is that something like Abductor logic?


no it's one unit of Imperial fation in DR. it's a tank that can capture enemy soldier and turn them into zombie... i use to plan unit like this in ROS before but since i'm very busy on my job seem like it'll never happen.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abductor with an AttachEffect with a huge animdamage mutating it to zombie, so it'll be one when it exits from the transport.

Totally possible.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think such a mod is a good idea.
The DR engine is still in many aspects a lot more advanced than any C&C engine, so when you do a conversion you have to scrap many important logics.

Things that are impossible
e.g.
-the whole spy logic (infiltrating enemy buildings, downloading enemy plans for units/buildings, bringing the stolen data to own command center to use them then)
-line of sight (DR had a very complex and advanced sight system with trees, hills blocking sight and units being unable to shoot on enemies that aren't in their line of sight)
-transform logic (units that can change into another unit: either by promotion or simply by pressing a "deploy" button)
-construction rigs (a single unit that constructs any building. C&C deploy logic can't compensate that)
-construction options dependent on the selected unit/building (this is a lot more complex and easier to use than the C&C style as the DR technique also allows simultaneous construction of multiple different things on multiple different factories)
-auto reload of aircraft on a single building (C&C needs a helipad for every single aircraft)
-units with charge/energy logic (C&C ammo logic is only a joke compared to the complexity that DR offers)
-the AI of DR is 1000 times more advanced than the C&C one (seek&destroy, auto-scan, free customizable unit behaviour ingame etc etc all impossible in C&C)
-units with multiple turrets and many different weapons firing at the same time (i once crated a mech with 6 different weapons which were all firing at the same time on different turrets on the same unit)
-weapons that do damage over time (like acid spray etc is not possible in C&C, or you lose veterancy)
-2 ressources water/taelon for 2 different purposes money/energy (impossible in C&C)
-unit disguise into enemy units/terrain objects (only on a non-moving object in C&C using mirage logic and impossible to disguise as a selected object)
-saboteur logic impossible in C&C (can't shut down enemy power supply with a unit hacking into a powerplant)
-buildings being upgradeable 2 or even 3 times, giving the building a new image and complete new stats (in C&C you can't even give a building more hitpoints or a different armor with an upgrade)
-multiple independent working turrets on the same building/unit.


can't think of anything more but there is sure a lot more stuff that you can't do in the C&C engines.
So in the end you not only have different graphics (because C&C doesn't support 32 facings on SHPs without a hack) but also many different or entirely missing logics, which don't make it a nice Dark Reign experience.
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akaine
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Joined: 14 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, good point. Thanks for the feedback, really. I haven't thought about some of the mentioned aspects like tech stealing, line of sight, etc. Even the balloon hovering. I was sure TS is capable of that one (I made MLRS' to fly high above once, though they did occupy the tiles below and couldn't fly over ridges).

RA2YR engine does come closer to the needed capabilities. The only problem is that I hate how RA2 looks (especially the lighting). Also with TS I was hoping to save a great deal of work by using the original terrain adding only some minor modifications, while with RA2 I'd have to redraw each and every tile.

OpenRA is a nice choice, but to add most of the DR stuff would require a complete redesign on the engine level which means a lot of C# coding. This way I could similarly write a new engine from scratch. After thinking about it, even Supreme Commander or TW would do better in this case...

I also must correct my first post. I was more thinking about DR adaptation, or better say, DR inspired mod, not real remake. Though I did want to bring it as close as possible to the original. This would mean intentional sacrifice of some of the DR functionality. I really have no idea how much the HyperPatch adds so the following list contains some adaptation concepts based on my assumptions on TS and HP capabilities:

-the whole spy logic (infiltrating enemy buildings, downloading enemy plans for units/buildings, bringing the stolen data to own command center to use them then)
- could be removed
-line of sight (DR had a very complex and advanced sight system with trees, hills blocking sight and units being unable to shoot on enemies that aren't in their line of sight)
- could be replaced by standard circular sight
-transform logic (units that can change into another unit: either by promotion or simply by pressing a "deploy" button)
- Unit morphing is present in TS (visceroid), though I'm not sure it can be done "on demand". Could be replaced with cloaking.
-construction rigs (a single unit that constructs any building. C&C deploy logic can't compensate that)
- could be replaced by classic deployment
-construction options dependent on the selected unit/building (this is a lot more complex and easier to use than the C&C style as the DR technique also allows simultaneous construction of multiple different things on multiple different factories)
- could be replaced by standard "one thing at a time"
-auto reload of aircraft on a single building (C&C needs a helipad for every single aircraft)
- don't see any problem with every smaller flying unit having its own pad
-units with charge/energy logic (C&C ammo logic is only a joke compared to the complexity that DR offers)
- could be replaced by ammo. In the end, in DR similar to TS each flying unit has a limited number of shots, except the Flying Fortress that just has a very low ROF.
-the AI of DR is 1000 times more advanced than the C&C one (seek&destroy, auto-scan, free customizable unit behaviour ingame etc etc all impossible in C&C)
- could be removed, though being a cool feature, its usefulness is doubtful considering how fast your army dies this way
-units with multiple turrets and many different weapons firing at the same time (i once crated a mech with 6 different weapons which were all firing at the same time on different turrets on the same unit)
- the DR does support it, but I saw no units (at least in the original DR) having this capability
-weapons that do damage over time (like acid spray etc is not possible in C&C, or you lose veterancy)
- could be removed
-2 ressources water/taelon for 2 different purposes money/energy (impossible in C&C)
- taelon is an unnecessary resource, in DR it just doubles the power plant production, nothing more. Could be easily replaced with a Power plant upgrade.
-unit disguise into enemy units/terrain objects (only on a non-moving object in C&C using mirage logic and impossible to disguise as a selected object)
- could be replaced by cloaking
-saboteur logic impossible in C&C (can't shut down enemy power supply with a unit hacking into a powerplant)
- could be removed
-buildings being upgradeable 2 or even 3 times, giving the building a new image and complete new stats (in C&C you can't even give a building more hitpoints or a different armor with an upgrade)
- could be replaced by component upgrades while keeping the original stats
-multiple independent working turrets on the same building/unit.
- same as with units having multiple turrets, could be replaced by one turret

Additional concepts:
- Unit capturing is already present in TS (the hijacker unit).
- Buildings undeploy function could be removed.
- Construction rig could be removed.
- Water resource could be replaced by a rapidly growing "tiberium field" of fixed 9x9 size if it's possible (with changed graphics).
- Accumulated resource release could be replaced with standard harvester deposits.
- Phasing could be replaced with cloaking.
- Shock Wave and Rift Creator could be replaced with some TS-style mass destruction effects.

Also I'd mention that some of original DR building related functionality (taelon, rearming deck, etc.) was based on base compactness concept due to little flat terrain available. This could be compensated during the map redesign.
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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the RA2 lighting setup can be reduced with an altered VPL to make the voxels glow less (also IIRC there's a tag to control unit glow - ExtraUnitLight I think?).

Terrain would indeed be an issue in RA2, but it would give you a buttload of logics to work with, especially with YR and Ares included.

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Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm.. engine isn't issue it depend on you good enough to do that?

this's Ra2YR where people complain it too bright. [pic from Tiberian Sun rewire made by Gangster  ]



and this's Ra3 where people complain how cartoony it is. [pic from "Tiberium" mod for Ra3]



and none ever imagin that you can turn TS in to this [dawn of the tiberium age by Bittah Commander]



since you also artist with alot of skill i'm sure it'll not over hand your . and let's see what you can make us stun!Smile

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason RA2YR is very bright due to how WW set it up. You can make it as grimdark as TS too.

Units all have Extra Lighting of 20%, Maps and Palettes use brighter colors.
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akaine
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Joined: 14 Sep 2013

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've already checked out the Rewire mod and played through the DTA campaign. Awesome work both mods!

Actually after thinking a bit about it I probably could help with Rewire project and later decide what to do with the DR mod...

Thanks a lot guys for giving me some wider perspective.
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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

akaine wrote:
OpenRA is a nice choice, but to add most of the DR stuff would require a complete redesign on the engine level which means a lot of C# coding.


This is not correct. The engine is completely modular. You only need to add new parsers to https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/tree/bleed/OpenRA.FileFormats/Graphics like we did for Dune 2000 and Tiberian Sun.

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Reaperrr
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Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

-units with multiple turrets and many different weapons firing at the same time (i once crated a mech with 6 different weapons which were all firing at the same time on different turrets on the same unit)
-weapons that do damage over time (like acid spray etc is not possible in C&C, or you lose veterancy)
-multiple independent working turrets on the same building/unit.
(...)
(because C&C doesn't support 32 facings on SHPs without a hack)
(...)

The other things mostly apply to OpenRA as well at this point, but those I quoted are already implemented. So in these aspects OpenRA would be a better choice than WW's C&C engines, especially because other stuff is easier to implement as well.

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think facings are hardcoded or limited in OpenRA. They are user-definable in sequences.yaml and we use 32 in https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/blob/bleed/mods/d2k/sequences/aircraft.yaml

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/3271

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QuantumPrism
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Joined: 23 Jun 2014

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Dark Reign Custom Terrain Tilesets Reply with quote

We are looking for anyone who was involved with trying to create Dark Reign custom terrain ? We are interested in Alien Planet terrains with 1 meter resolution for a 24 bit tile ?

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Zengar_Zombolt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: Dark Reign mod Reply with quote

akaine wrote:

Why TS and not TW or some other engine?

Probably first of all it's a personal choice. I consider TS the best game of all C&C series including the graphics and the gameplay. Then goes the required experience for modding criteria, which in case of the TS is not very high. TS modding has a long history and a well worked out path: tools, tutorials, documentation, etc. Yes, compared to TW, VXL making is pain, but it requires less knowledge than fancy 3D modelling and the INIs are quite readable to be able to configure all the things needed.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh wait your serious?

HAHAHAHA!
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deathreaperz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol, comparing old games with the new one Laughing
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Zengar_Zombolt
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Thinking that TS will net better people to work on it by virtue of it being "bestest"
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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is now https://github.com/drogoganor/DarkReign WIP




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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, this looks really good. Approved!
Are those sprites read directly from the DarkReign format (IIRC .spr) or were they converted into a OpenRA friendly format?
It seems all the shadows are missing.

Love to see and hear the good old DR units and sounds.
Man did i love to hear the "triple rail hover tank" shooting stuff.
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Timburwolfe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
a single unit that constructs any building. C&C deploy logic can't compensate that)


This is not completely true, at least not if you code the construction yard for these guys to be a mobile unit like the Fist of Nod from Firestorm.

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TAK02
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then you'd need to code the ConYard to be a War Factory that builds smaller 'MCVs' but deploy into pre-selected specific buildings like the Imperial ConYard from RA3.
Dozers/workers/builders just don't work.

Unless there's a work-around with must having a "builder" go to where a new building is "rising out of the ground" (some sort of dummy weapon with FireOnFriendlies=yes) and longer build times (note this is just the illusion, not the real thing).
I guess the only problem would be to make the ConYard build these buildings like a regualr ConYard but also allowing building dozers at the same time.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You noticed that the discussion you're continuing ended 4 years ago
and Matthias just revived this topic with some OpenRA DarkReign news, since that was/is one of the options discussed 4 years ago!?
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pchote
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Are those sprites read directly from the DarkReign format (IIRC .spr) or were they converted into a OpenRA friendly format?
Its using the original assets without conversion.
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