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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
The next Ares
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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use building upgrades instead of stacking multiple buildings on top of each other.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buildings cannot overlap. The games don't support this.
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RehteA
Soldier


Joined: 16 Oct 2013

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another case:
[StartWeapon]
Warhead=StartWH

[StartWH]
AnimList=StartAni

[StartAni]
Weapon=AnimWeapon

The StartWH and AnimWeapon's warhead has AffectsAllies=no.
However, ally unit can still be affected by AnimWeapon.

Also tested with old animation damage.
It seems that warhead animation does not have owner like its warhead.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not every animation has an owner. Originally the owner was set in few places, like when it was relevant to render a projectile in house colors. Ares expands this a bit, but there are still many ownerless animations, thus there's nothing to pass on when dealing damage.
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mevitar
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Animations for PoweredBy= buildings appear to be fixed, except for interactions with TogglePower. See the problem here.

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cxtian39
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
cxtian39: I'll have to check whether this also happens with the original game or not.
doesn't happen in 1.0, that is, the special pip is always leftmost when loading other infantries/units.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the animation damage issue, where sometimes anims don't do damage: could it be the firing unit is cloaking? The game makes anims lose their owners when they cloak.

cxtian39: Thanks!

mevitar: It's on my list to look into it. Each deactivation logic has to check all others, and maybe some checks are missing here.
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mevitar
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
Regarding the animation damage issue, where sometimes anims don't do damage: could it be the firing unit is cloaking? The game makes anims lose their owners when they cloak.
No cloak was involved in the tests i did. It was regular infantry and the warhead was fired by a defense structure with a long range arcing projectile weapon.
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah its not cloak. My issues for example are on a player owned chopper that does not cloak and an airstrike SW. One of them uses Next and both loop (which worked fine with Damage.Delay on earlier versions).
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Screw AttachEffect. Can't think of any use for it.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rate= less than 900 might be the "problem". I've reworked the code, but I'm not yet ready to release a new testing build. There's still a lot of issues I have to look into. The plan is to make the Anim Damage not game-frame-exact, but using anim-frames as the frame of reference, that is, factoring in Rate=. This is what the original game did.

New version should be ready for the weekend.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely the last pre-RC testing build (18.243.1246), with a few new features that fix existing feature.

Are there any loose ends that I still have to connect before I call it RC? I'm still not sure about Splits and AffectsAllies, Enemies and Owner handling. Jumpjet conversion still has some issues that might need to be resolved.

Minor additions
  • Fixed passenger pip generation, which was backwards
  • Observers are considered allies regarding Super Weapon timer visibility
  • If EMP or PoweredBy deactivates a unit, let go of locomotor-attacked victims
  • Units picked up by Magnetrons count as ground units regarding EMP.Threshold
  • Fixed Magnetrons juggling units that had their drivers killed

Animation Damage.Delay reworked
Changed Damage.Delay to use the animation's actual frame as reference (that is, also respecting Rate=). Damage will be applied only after Damage.Delay number of frames have been played.

This is about what I wrote some time ago: deterministic again, but not game-frame accurate. Anims of the same type will not all fire at the same time, but damage is guaranteed to fire first after a certain amount of frames have played.


CanBeDriven for TechnoTypes
[TechnoType]CanBeDriven= (boolean, defaults to yes)
Whether this unit can be reclaimed by a driver. If no, this unit cannot be captured by a driver after the original driver has been killed. If yes, ownership and other still might still prevent the unit from being captured.


Weapon effect customization
[Warhead]EffectsRequireDamage= (bool, defaults to no)
Whether warheads will only apply the weapon effects if at least one hitpoint has been dealt to an object. If no, weapon effects are also applied if the no damage is dealt.

[Warhead]EffectsRequireVerses= (bool, defaults to no)
Whether warheads will only apply the weapon effects if the Verses for the target's armor are above 0%. If no, weapon effects are also applied if the warhead cannot damage the object.

Note that the default behavior has changed with this release. Are the defaults okay? Should it rather be yes and yes like before?
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gameaddict11707
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 15 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damage.Delay appears to work correctly.

CanBeDriven on specific TechnoTypes works correctly (for example, a CanDrive=yes infantry is able to enter and control other civilian cars on the map Alamo, but not the school bus with CanBeDriven=no on [BUS]).

EffectsRequire* tags don't appear to work for me, but I might not be using them right.
Assuming everything not listed here is unmodified Yuri's Revenge:
Spoiler (click here to read it):
;RULESMD.INI

[PsychicJab]
Damage=25
ROF=30
Range=6
Projectile=InvisibleAll
Speed=100
Warhead=SAFlame
Report=InitiateAttack
Anim=UCINIT

[SAFlame]
EffectsRequireDamage=no; with both of these set to NO, my Initiate should be able to apply the damaging flames to any unit, without doing the initial "impact" damage to anything but buildings, right?
EffectsRequireVerses=no

CellSpread=.5
PercentAtMax=.5
CellSpread.MaxAffect=1
AttachEffect.Animation=INITFIRE; modified to do damage
AttachEffect.Duration=120
AttachEffect.Cumulative=yes
AttachEffect.DiscardOnEntry=yes
Verses=0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,100%,100%,100%,0%,0%
Versus.none.ForceFire=yes; infantry should take no damage from the initial attack but still be set on fire...
Versus.flak.ForceFire=yes
Versus.plate.ForceFire=yes
Versus.light.ForceFire=yes; ...same with vehicles...
Versus.medium.ForceFire=yes
Versus.heavy.ForceFire=yes
Versus.special_1.ForceFire=yes
Versus.special_2.ForceFire=yes; ...and spawned rockets

[Fire2]
CellSpread=.5
PercentAtMax=.5
CellSpread.MaxAffect=1
Wood=yes
Wall=yes
Verses=100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%
InfDeath=4
ProneDamage=100%

;ARTMD.INI

[INITFIRE]
Image=FIRE01
Rate=450
Damage=1
Damage.Delay=5
Warhead=Fire2

The anim is attached to buildings and they usually take damage (Bio Reactors, Tank Bunkers and scenery props do. Conyards, Oil Derricks, and garrisonable civilian structures don't, as far as I've seen).
Infantry and vehicles, despite the Initiate being able to shoot at them, are unaffected; no animation plays, thus no damage is done.

Last edited by gameaddict11707 on Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Starkku
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My assumption is that EffectsRequire* was intended for use with Sonar/DisableWeapons/Flash effects and does not affect IC/EMP/AE at all. The others never required the weapon to deal actual damage to apply in first place and in general work in different fashion.

EffectsRequireDamage works partially. Setting it to false / omitting it allows weapons with non-zero Damage and warhead Verses that cause the actual damage dealt against targets to be zero can apply warhead effects, but weapons with Damage=0 won't still be able to do so under any circumstances. This is not particularly problematic as to my knowledge there isn't any other impactful distinction between actual Damage=0 and damage being truncated to 0.

EffectsRequireVerses seems to not function at all, always behaving as if set to true. That said I am unsure if there is any sensible use-case for setting it to false in first place, and in case it is made to work having it default to true would be so much more intuitive, at least in my personal opinion.

CanBeDriven appears to work fine. I'll see if I can test Damage.Delay change and the minor additions later on.
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Last edited by Starkku on Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damage.Delay works now, however something about it in this version seems to affect animations that don't have the tag at all.

For instance I have a 1 frame animation that triggers a weapon, however it no longer works in the latest version unless I explicitly set Damage.Delay=1. The animation does not have the Rate tag set.

Haven't yet seen it in action but EffectsRequireVerses defaulting to no sounds like a big change to me, since warheads are always set to 0% for armours you dont want affected. Can imagine it having unwanted affects on a lot of things, depending on what "effects" that tag exactly covers.
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Screw AttachEffect. Can't think of any use for it.

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gameaddict11707
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 15 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Starkku's right about the "effects" - EffectsRequire* tags omitted or set to NO makes this setup appear to work as intended:

Spoiler (click here to read it):
[SAFlame]

DisableWeapons.Duration=150
EffectsRequireVerses=no
EffectsRequireDamage=no

Verses=100%,95%,85%,0%,0%,0%,80%,70%,50%,0%,0%
Versus.light.ForceFire=yes
Versus.medium.ForceFire=yes
Versus.heavy.ForceFire=yes
Versus.light.Retaliate=yes
Versus.medium.Retaliate=yes
Versus.heavy.Retaliate=yes
Versus.light.PassiveAcquire=yes
Versus.medium.PassiveAcquire=yes
Versus.heavy.PassiveAcquire=yes
Versus.special_1.ForceFire=yes
Versus.special_2.ForceFire=yes
Versus.special_1.Retaliate=yes
Versus.special_2.Retaliate=yes
Versus.special_1.PassiveAcquire=yes
Versus.special_2.PassiveAcquire=yes
InfDeath=4
AnimList=INITFIRE
ProneDamage=70%


In my test, vehicles took no damage but still had their weapons disabled for 10 seconds, other targets took damage and had weapons disabled. Setting either EffectsRequireVerses or Damage to YES made it so vehicle weapons weren't disabled on being hit with weapons using the warhead SAFlame.

Replacing DisableWeapons with Flash and Sonar (after making some units cloakable) worked exactly the same.

I agree with OmegaBolt that EffectsRequire* should default to YES, considering many other new tags have defaults that closely match the original game's settings.

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KALAPS S8
Grenadier


Joined: 02 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Convert unit into another type on deploy not job for infantry ?

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I'd like to thank you all for testing! Smile

Nope, infantry cannot use the IsSimpleDeployer logic. Maybe in a future release.

The effects are indeed Sonar, Self Healing Combat Delay*, DisableWeapons, and Flash. Iron Curtain, EMP, and AttachEffects are applied manually, and they all use systems separate from normal damage handling.

The C&C games all exit early when the damage to be delivered is 0. The cells aren't checked for things that could be damaged then, thus no objects are made aware of damage being delivered at all. I could skip that check, but if, I would prefer it to be a new warhead tag**.

I found a problem with Anim Damage Delay (for Damage.Delay=0), which used a wrong comparison, and thus might fire a frame too late. I hope this fixes Omega Bolt's issue (though it's a shot in the dark).

I also fixed a bug with Scorch/SmallFire handling, which I introduced in the latest build. Will be fixed next time.

---
* This was more an oversight than a concious decision. This shouldn't be affected, and I plan to fix this.

** Only the warhead is known at this point, not the weapon. Using EffectsRequireDamage here would be weird, because that's unexpected. Also, CanC4=yes buildings might always get 1 damage then, as always.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more quick last testing-build-ish pre-RC unstable binary (18.248.910).

Minor additions
  • Changed the default of EffectsRequireVerses to yes
  • Fixed crash with Scorch=yes animations with SmallFire not set
  • Fixed something about Anim Damage that might interfered with delays
  • SelfHeal.CombatDelay is now always applied if positive damage has been dealt

Allow warheads dealing no damage
[Warhead]AllowZeroDamage= (boolean, defaults to false)
Whether damage of 0 hitpoints will still be passed on to all objects affected by a warhead. Otherwise, a damage of 0 will not be passed on.

This can be used to punctually disable an optimization in the game to still apply warhead effects without damage.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC time (18.250.1188). I'm still busy with the tedious task of writing the documentation; not sure when releasing a preliminary version would make sense.

Minor additions
  • KillDriver was broken in the last binary

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second RC time (18.254.1162).

Animation Damage using Weapons changes
No damage longer counts as being caused by the object the anim is attached to. This change was made to ensure that the object the animation is attached to can be damaged by the weapon, too.
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RehteA
Soldier


Joined: 16 Oct 2013

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the latest build brokes some of my work.

I used an animation which has a weapon that can apply an attach effect on own infantries.
And that AttachEffect's animation has a weapon with a warhead with infantry-making animation.

It works correctly in previous build but in this build spanwed infantries lost owner and became cilvian.

Directly infantry-making warhead animation works fine.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alas, it wasn't correct. The animation attached to an object is owned by that object, and previously the damage was done "in the name of" that unit. For AEs where the animation is attached to the same owner that created the animation, that might be desirable, but if you attach an AE to anything (like a virus cloud or something), and the anim kills units nearby, then you wouldn't want the infected unit to get the kills awarded, but the one who attached the AE.

So, for now, this isn't supported. Normal warhead damage was expanded to do the same silly thing, but it was too late to fix that and maybe break a lot of existing codes. For the new code however, the next Ares version after this one could extend the behavior, but I don't want to release something I'm sure I'll have to break shortly after releasing anyhow. This is the reason why I changed this.
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noticed a bug with an older Ares, and can't confirmyet if it's been fixed with the last one:

It involves using TogglePower on a building with an ActiveAnim while you're out of / low on power before that building got placed.
Simply deactivating and then re-activating the building in question causes the ActiveAnim to play.
Nice way to decieve yourself and others, I say #Tongue

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iamaHUN
Civilian


Joined: 27 Feb 2017

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex, you did an amazing job again, thank you! Smile The most long-awaited feature for me was the unit transformation combined with veterancy.

Now I have a question about vehicles (IFV in this case).

I've made a change on the IFV, now it can disguise itself but not automatically like Mirage Tanks do. To achieve this, it has to have a spy in it, and its weapon changes to TankMakeupKit. If it's done, you'll have an attack cursor on any tree or rock, and you can disguise the IFV manually when you click on the target.

We know that if a disguised vehicle starts moving, the disguise will stop. Not like when I deploy the IFV, it remains disguised even if the spy isn't in it.

So the question is: Can we expect a tag in the future to stop disguise when a passenger exits from the disguised vehicle like the Japanese transport from RA3?

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cxtian39
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iamaHUN wrote:
Alex, you did an amazing job again, thank you! Smile The most long-awaited feature for me was the unit transformation combined with veterancy.

Now I have a question about vehicles (IFV in this case).

I've made a change on the IFV, now it can disguise itself but not automatically like Mirage Tanks do. To achieve this, it has to have a spy in it, and its weapon changes to TankMakeupKit. If it's done, you'll have an attack cursor on any tree or rock, and you can disguise the IFV manually when you click on the target.

We know that if a disguised vehicle starts moving, the disguise will stop. Not like when I deploy the IFV, it remains disguised even if the spy isn't in it.

So the question is: Can we expect a tag in the future to stop disguise when a passenger exits from the disguised vehicle like the Japanese transport from RA3?
I think the default behavior is better #Tongue Effectively turning the IFV into an AA mirage tank
If the IFV loses disguise on unload, it will be less useful (maybe not useful at all, a fake tree cannot attack is no different than a real tree)
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cxtian39
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Today, at 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightning Storm with different SW.Group values still can't activate at the same time Sad
So is it solely used for AI scripting?
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