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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Ideas & suggestions
Moderators: Ares Support Team at PPM, Global Moderators, Red Alert 2 Moderators
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NimoStar
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What the frag?
Did you even read what's on the documentation?
http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/restored/emp.html?highlight=emp
It says from the get-go damage and EMP are seperate, and the "fixed" amount (which you can then modify) is 0.
Regarding Armor shenanigans, use the new ArmorTypes list.
http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/new/additionalarmortypesandverses.html?highlight=armortype


You didn'0t even understand what I said and made alex not respond presumably.

yes, IT LETS YOU CHOOSE A FIXED A MOUNT FOR EMP. ONLY A FIXED AMOUNT. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

And I have used this many times!

Get it?
The problem is not "you can't deal emp and damage separately". That was never a problem, you can even use particles in the old TS way.

The problem is that EMP does not scale with damage and deals only a flat rate per WH regardless of verses or armors
In this way you can't configure that some armors take more/none of the EMP damage and some less, all ewill be affected by the flat rate of EMP equally

Get it now!?=

My proposal is FOR THE EMP to have an option to be tied to damage dealt, and dealing no damage.

Code:
Warhead.Damaging=boolean (true/false)
Warhead.EmpEqualsDmgCalc=boolean (true/false)


Current EMP warheads in ARES deal the same amount of EMP to verses 1% and 1000%. AND you need a new one for each weapon, because they are not dependent on weapon damage. That is the problem.

This is not even something "exotic"; it is the exact way EMP WORKED IN TIBERIAN SUN.

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Sorry for the rage, but it would have been clear enough the first time if read.
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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use EMP.Modifier= on the unit to change how much it is effected by an EMP weapon.
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Virgil
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 22 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think NimoStar want a modifier that works in the same way as versus,for example warhead A has a versus of 1% and 10000 frames duration on unit X, it does 100 frame emp on it, and another wardead B has 100%,100 frame which also does 100 frame emp,however unit X currently can only have one EMP modifier which means that you always get 1/100 duration with warhead B, compared with warhead A.

Edit: Actually I suggest a modifier seperated from versus,because someone may want warhead A do 100% damage but 1% EMP on unit X in the example above.Wether this modifier will override the current EMP.Modifier on technotypes or replace it totally(and also wether this will be done in the future) is up to the develop team,though.

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NimoStar
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virgil has the right idea. However I would just make it equal to damage dealt because this also allows spread to come into the question.

Also, this allows it to work better with damaging anims and their warheads.

Another problem of the current system is precisely that the EMP is always 100% no matter how far from the blast.

In the TS weapon with EMP system, the spread of the weapon affected the intensity of the blast.

So it would be 100% in center, but decrease in the area effect the further away from the hit.
In current ares implementation, the "50 emp" will apply uniformly in the whole cellspread regardless of verses AND spread. Even 0.01 spread will give the whole 50 emp 10 cells away (with cellspread 10).

And not only that: affecting of warheads is different than on units.
Say, I want a warhead that deals 10 times more EMP to infantries (cyborgs). Currently this cannot be done. I can make cyborgs be 10 times more vulnerable to EMP, but this will apply to ANY emp that gets them, not just the weapon I want to have this special ability!

Simply, if the whole EMP is copied from TS, it makes no sense to leave out the gist of the implementation in the warheads...

Things much smaller from TS have been translated such as tiberium damage and healing. (even in original TS tiberium damage was insignificant...)
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always do it yourself with splits weapons that have increasing cellspread but lower EMP values.

I dunno, I'd rather have new features than very marginal adjustments like that. Dunno how mods have had so many EMP weapons so far without issue but now it needs spread drop-off to be "just right". Such a change also raises the question: should this apply to every special effect? Iron curtain, AttachEffect, sonar, weapons jamming etc? I personally would never use or want such a drop-off effect on those, so I guess there would have to be options for every one?
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimoStar wrote:
My proposal is FOR THE EMP to have an option to be tied to damage dealt, and dealing no damage.

[...]

Code:
Warhead.Damaging=boolean (true/false)
Warhead.EmpEqualsDmgCalc=boolean (true/false)


Current EMP warheads in ARES deal the same amount of EMP to verses 1% and 1000%. AND you need a new one for each weapon, because they are not dependent on weapon damage. That is the problem.

This is not even something "exotic"; it is the exact way EMP WORKED IN TIBERIAN SUN.

It's not the same way it worked in TS. TS did not support verses. It had every special logic there was tied to Cyborg, IsCoreDefender, IsLimpetMine, LargeVisceroid, SmallVisceroid, or whether the victim is an aircraft, but treated all objects with the same EMP duration. When I added the EMP, I took this as example and expanded from there.

EMP is for historical reasons applied using a helper object, which fires and affects all units. This is done instead of conventional damage in TS, but complementary in Ares and thus allowing both at the same time. It's technically the same system though, using a helper object. Thus it does not tie into the normal damage routines that apply verses.

I had unused code in Ares that applied verses. It was there since 2010. Incidentally, I removed that just two weeks ago, because it was unused.

If i would do EMP today, I would make it a weapon effect like Sonar and Disable Weapons, but I see no easy way to add this in quickly.

NimoStar wrote:
In the TS weapon with EMP system, the spread of the weapon affected the intensity of the blast.
Spread only affected the range, not the EMP duration.

NimoStar wrote:
Simply, if the whole EMP is copied from TS, it makes no sense to leave out the gist of the implementation in the warheads...

Can you show me code that worked like that in TS?


OmegaBolt wrote:
Such a change also raises the question: should this apply to every special effect? Iron curtain, AttachEffect, sonar, weapons jamming etc? I personally would never use or want such a drop-off effect on those, so I guess there would have to be options for every one?

If I would start with a clean plate, yes. There would be nothing special about these effects then. They would work like Psychedelic or Webby, but not abort dealing conventional damage; Urban Combat would work like PenetratesBunker, and not require a projectile; they would work efficiently without checking all objects on the map again per effect; and they would all work with Anim Damage or any other non-projectile damage mechanism.
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pre-placed units on the map with Area Guard or Guard mode etc. do not attack the enemy that come in range when using Ares. Is there any flag to change it like vanilla game?

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
Pre-placed units on the map with Area Guard or Guard mode etc. do not attack the enemy that come in range when using Ares. Is there any flag to change it like vanilla game?
Uhh yes they do. Show your code or something because you must be doing something wrong.
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, it was someone else's rulesmd.ini that was left over in the game folder which I forgot to remove. It was using versus of 2% which made the difference with Ares.
Those area guard or guard mode on pre-placed units works like vanilla game as it should.

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Tratos
General


Joined: 01 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of suggestions for things, no idea how feasible they are;

1. The ability to convert damage into credits generated, i.e if the weapon deals 50 damage you earn 50 credits. Negative values costs the firer money.
And the ability to turn on/off whether or not the damage is actually dealt or if just the money is created.

2. Same as above but the damage translates to experience points. Allowing warheads to promote/demote allies/enemies.

3. The ability to disable showing the map preview on skirmish load screens.

4. Power as a prerequisiste?
Prerequisite.Power=*** Entity becomes available when you have this much surplus power. Ability to apply this to units, structures & superweapons?

5. Following on from above, ability for superweapons to drain power from you when fired, and a tag to set the duration of the drain.

6. Option for superweapons to begin charged. I.e. when said superweapon first becomes available it is ready to fire and once fired will then begin to charge as normal.

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5. Ares already adds Protect.PowerOutage=, I'm not sure if this only works with ForceShield type superweapons tho.
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Tratos
General


Joined: 01 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking more along the lines of a power 'cost', not necessarily causing a guaranteed blackout.

Personally I feel like power as a resource has a lot more potential, currently the only real decision you make with regards to power is 'do i have enough for this structure?', and every game uses power the same, you build power plants, get +power, build other stuff, get -power, build more power plants ad infinitum.
You could have many more meaningful choices involved or just more flexibility in the ways power is used a resource.

The over-arching idea behind the suggestion is a side/country that had no power plants but could fire a superweapon that granted a massive burst of power for an extended period, if their production was tied to that or their offensive units powered during that timeframe their playstyle would have to vary around a rotating system of defense/offense.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean like Iron Curtain (let's say) needs 500 power to charge up, but then 10000 power to discharge (use) for the duration rendering your base to essentially blackout?
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Tratos
General


Joined: 01 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More along the lines of

Superweapon.Power.Cost=10
Superweapon.Power.Duration=3.0

Discharging this superweapon GENERATES an extra *10* units of power for *3.0* minutes.

Superweapon.Power.Cost=-100
Superweapon.Power.Duration=1.0

Whereas, discharging this superweapon CONSUMES *100* units of power for *1.0* minutes. If you had a power surplus of 110 when you discharge the weapon you will not lose power, if you only had a surplus of 50 then you would go into a 'low power' state until the effect wore off or you built more power plants.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, I was working on a battery SW. It's in my experimental post-2.0 stuff aimed for a future release. It doesn't work on other types but the soon-new Type=Battery and thus can't be combined.
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silverwind
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This battery super weapon, is it planned to work the same way as the current Ares-powered abilities of the Floating disk? i.e. give or take power to or from the owner of the target technotype?

Also, a related suggestion: Switch weapons based on power surplus. Similar to Overpowering, but using the base's power surplus instead of an ElectricAssault WH.

This way, for instance, certain defenses could be temporarily boosted by a battery weapon to clear an enemy siege, going back to normal when it wears off.

Basically,

[BuildingType]?SurgeWeapon= (integer)
The weapon index to switch to when there is a power surplus determined by SurgeAmount. This will override the normal weapon selection and only allow this weapon to be selected. Valid values 0 for the primary weapon and 1 for the secondary. Use -1 to not switch weapons. Defaults to -1.

[BuildingType]?SurgeAmount= (integer)
If the current power surplus is equal to or above this value, the SurgeWeapon will be used. Defaults to 0.

This could also be used to boost unpowered weapons. Would make a nice unique powerup style for an additional side.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently finalizing the current release, so I can't talk about this future stuff now. Currently, it just adds power as if there was a virtual power plant. There's a tag to define which building types are always online no matter the power level when the battery is active, and a tag to define which building types are always considered overpowered. Both an be combined to do what you requested. But this is for another day.
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeployToFire=yes always look for space to deploy, sometimes the way it finds space is not correct, i.e. it always thinks water is not allowed to deploy even if the building set by DeploysInto= can be built on water. You can give a deploy order to deploy it but if you give an attack order it just gets stuck on water.
So I want a new tag like DoesntLookForSpaceToDeploy=yes so it skips the space finding procedure and deploys directly.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you tried PlaceAnywhere=yes on the deployed building? In TS, units can this way even deploy on top of tiberium.

Suggestion: keys for unittypes
RangeBasedAttack=yes
This makes the unit use the weapon (Primary or Secondary) whose weapon is currently having the target in range, regardless of Warhead or any other setting.
If there is a short range weapon and a long range weapon (also with MinimumRange), the unit will prefer using the short range weapon. When this is out of range, it switches to the long range weapon, without trying to get close again to the short range weapon.

ConsiderWarhead=yes
Works in addition to RangeBasedAttack, this key also makes the unit check the warhead of both weapons and uses the weapon whose warhead is more effective against the target. (basically for cases where both weapons have overlapping ranges)

art.ini
FiringSyncFrame1 and 2 from FS would be surely helpful in RA2 as well. Especially with all the new 32 facing units with fancy animations.

PrimaryFiringAnim and SecondaryFiringAnim would be also helpful for SHP units with different attack anims in the SHP.
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^This stems from here, doesn't it? #Tongue

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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
do you tried PlaceAnywhere=yes on the deployed building? In TS, units can this way even deploy on top of tiberium.
That only affects manual deploy, not DeployToFire. Isn't that DeployToFire skips looking-for-space in TS by default?
I guess the space finding method doesn't read any properties (PlaceAnywhere, WaterBound, etc) of the building except Foundation, which uses to determine shape and size of the clear cells it needs to find.
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suggestion: we already have SpyEffect.UndoReverseEngineer.

Is it possible to extend this so that, if ReverseEngi is undone, the reversed plans are transferred (or maybe just copied) to infiltrator's house?
This is different from StolenTech. That one is static, pre-defined. This here would be more dynamic and dependant on what the infiltrated's house had at the time, if at all.

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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you mean:

House A uses reverse on House B.
House B now can build House A unit.
House C uses undo on House B.
House C now can build House A unit and House B cannot.

Seems a bit overly complicated, why not (as C) just reverse house A and destroy house B? #Tongue
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4StarGeneral wrote:
Seems a bit overly complicated, why not (as C) just reverse house A and destroy house B? #Tongue

A fool's ideas are always complex, but a genius' ideas are simple #Tongue

I meant:
A reverses a unit from B side (I mean, it's usually sides, not Houses we're dealing with when it comes to which unit goes to whom).
C then comes and undoes the reverse, but in dong so gets the reversed B unit A reversed himself just a few frames ago.

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RehteA
Soldier


Joined: 16 Oct 2013

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some minor but useful (I think) suggestion:
1. SuperWeapon's AuxBuildings uses OR logic currently.
I think it's useless most time since you can always attach same SW on different buildings.
How about using AND logic just like Prerequisite?
It should be much more useful.
2. SuperWeapon's SW.ShowCameo is ignored when AutoFire=yes.
How about remove this limitation?
ShowCameo=no + AutoFire=no is the eastist way to make an AI-only superweapon.
3. Make Image= tag in art.ini support VXL.
You can use Image tag in art to make different entries sharing same SHP file. However it does not work on VXL.
Which means if you want make 2 units sharing same VXL model but with different cameo, you must clone your VXL file.
4. How about make cameo a rules tag like in superweapons?
5. Different UIName on sidebar and in-game.

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MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RehteA wrote:
4. How about make cameo a rules tag like in superweapons?


Oh, that is good, several units, buildings etc.. sharing same images with different cameos if needed. Currently each image must have its own cameo.
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CloakType=integer

SensorsType=integer

Sensors can only detect cloak units of the same type number
I want to distinguish submarines and actual cloak units, i.e. a Pitbull buggy can see a Stealth Tank but can not see a Boomer sub.
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Tratos
General


Joined: 01 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you target your paradrop on top of a structure but that structure gets destroyed whilst the plane is inbound, the plane aborts it's run, turns round and fly's back off the map without dropping anything.
The same applies to spyplane's - on their default mission if the structure is destroyed they just fly over without triggering the camera. On an 'Attack' or 'Ambush' mission they abort their run if the structure is destroyed.
In all cases the superweapon is activated and begins recharging.

This is not an Ares bug as paradrops in the base game do this.

Is there any way to force the targetting on the cell beneath the structure?

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know about that or I didn't remember. I would consider this a bug.
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silverwind
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hold on, is that really how it works? If so, is this only for buildings, or does it apply for movable units too?

Because I remember my airstrikes failing to keep track of vehicles if they move after targeting.

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Tratos
General


Joined: 01 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I could tell if you target a vehicle and it moves the superweapon just strikes the cell/area you targeted.
I didn’t test if destroying the vehicle you targeted aborts the run or not.

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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Request:
DeployingAnimFacings=
How many facings does DeployingAnim have?

IsSimpleDeployer with Convert.Deploy can't take off automatically like without Convert.Deploy. Does it worth a fix?
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chr0nicz420
Flamethrower


Joined: 10 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

* Will always requesting the Difficulties section.

* Regarding the thread that I created. Something like, make a tag that is applicable for AI that when they encounter enemies, they will use their deploy weapon instead of the standard weapon. Something like "AI.UseDeployWeapon=yes" tag. This is for the sake of returning the RA2's GI behavior when they approach targets. NOTE: I've check EVERYTHING RELATED TO AI.INI, AIMD.INI, AND THEIR GI'S SCRIPTS and they have NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever so there might be some changes or problems on GI's behavior on YR engine.

* Expanding Spy veterancy effect. Make some units are not affected on Spy veterancy. For instance, assigning Prism Tank is not affected on Spy veterancy.

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silverwind
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suggestion: Chameleon / Ditto

An expansion to the spy logic that would allow a unit to copy an enemy unit completely, instead of just looks.

[InfantryTypes]?Chameleon = Boolean
  Whether this infantry can mimic an enemy completely. Uses MakeDisguise.

Essentially, the main idea is for the unit to switch out its Image= Primary=, Secondary=, UIName= and Armor= out with that of the unit it's copying from.

That way, we can have a spy who, up on picking up a disguise, can defend for himself, in addition to his spy duties.

Spy= may be referenced for whether he changes remap colors, and retains infiltration capabilities.

Consider this as very low priority.

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MRMIdAS
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverwind wrote:
Suggestion: Chameleon / Ditto

An expansion to the spy logic that would allow a unit to copy an enemy unit completely, instead of just looks.

[InfantryTypes]?Chameleon = Boolean
  Whether this infantry can mimic an enemy completely. Uses MakeDisguise.

Essentially, the main idea is for the unit to switch out its Image= Primary=, Secondary=, UIName= and Armor= out with that of the unit it's copying from.

That way, we can have a spy who, up on picking up a disguise, can defend for himself, in addition to his spy duties.

Spy= may be referenced for whether he changes remap colors, and retains infiltration capabilities.

Consider this as very low priority.


How does he change disguise from infantry to another?

So say he's a SEAL, then the enemy builds TANYA, how would he change disguise without interpreting a click on TANYA as "kill this with your machine gun"
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MRMIdAS wrote:
silverwind wrote:
Suggestion: Chameleon / Ditto

An expansion to the spy logic that would allow a unit to copy an enemy unit completely, instead of just looks.

[InfantryTypes]?Chameleon = Boolean
  Whether this infantry can mimic an enemy completely. Uses MakeDisguise.

Essentially, the main idea is for the unit to switch out its Image= Primary=, Secondary=, UIName= and Armor= out with that of the unit it's copying from.

That way, we can have a spy who, up on picking up a disguise, can defend for himself, in addition to his spy duties.

Spy= may be referenced for whether he changes remap colors, and retains infiltration capabilities.

Consider this as very low priority.


How does he change disguise from infantry to another?

So say he's a SEAL, then the enemy builds TANYA, how would he change disguise without interpreting a click on TANYA as "kill this with your machine gun"

Maybe forcing Ctrl+LMB for disguise or kill-order. It'd mean adding an extra switch either in [General] or the Infantry...
Of course, we can do that ourselves I believe with some Versus shenanigans.

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RIAKTOR
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 23 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeployAttackWeapon=Primary/Secondary/Tertiary/Quaternary

EruptionAttack= for units with desolator or Yuri like weapons. Units with this flag can passive(in AI comtrol) use deploy attacks, interpretate cellspread of warhead like range of normal weapons. Sorry my bad English.

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RIAKTOR
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 23 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And fresh idea: mind control break weapon. If mind controlled unit being attacked by warhead or weapon with this flag, it become not mind controlled.

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KALAPS S8
Grenadier


Joined: 02 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make classified cloakable (Ground and amphibius vehicle/infantry/naval unit or custom cloakable system) and sensor option selectable type detected cloak unit .

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RustyTurret= boolean
If yes, disallows the turret from resetting its position/direction, instead stick with its last one until a new target gets in range. Because turret is so rusty, it might break from over-(ab)use.

This'd be useful for TechnoTypes whose turret is actually the vehicle itself, for example like several units of Mental Omega's Foehn Revolt, BalloonHovering or otherwise.
(TNK.vxl is empty, but TNKtur.vxl is the actual, non-turreted unit)
Else it'd just look wierd.

This is similar to how BuildingTypes don't reset the turret's direction, or the Vehicles in Tank Bunkers.

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silverwind
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MRMIdAS wrote:
silverwind wrote:
Suggestion: Chameleon / Ditto

An expansion to the spy logic that would allow a unit to copy an enemy unit completely, instead of just looks.

[InfantryTypes]?Chameleon = Boolean
  Whether this infantry can mimic an enemy completely. Uses MakeDisguise.

Essentially, the main idea is for the unit to switch out its Image= Primary=, Secondary=, UIName= and Armor= out with that of the unit it's copying from.

That way, we can have a spy who, up on picking up a disguise, can defend for himself, in addition to his spy duties.

Spy= may be referenced for whether he changes remap colors, and retains infiltration capabilities.

Consider this as very low priority.


How does he change disguise from infantry to another?

So say he's a SEAL, then the enemy builds TANYA, how would he change disguise without interpreting a click on TANYA as "kill this with your machine gun"


He won't. He's not a regular spy. He only gets to pick up disguises once, and then becomes a combatant. The moment he uses the makeupkit, he would change disguise, and then change his weapons themselves to whatever he used the makeupkit on. If that isn't an enemy spy, then he would no longer be able to change disguise, remaining disguised until killed.

The basic idea is that of an intruder. A spy who picks up disguises along with the weapon the enemy uses, not just cosmetics. disguised as a Tesla Trooper? Use Tesla Bolts and Assault Bolts. As Tanya? Use Pistols and ATC4 charges.

Imagine a couple of these disguised as a seal who shows up at your base and blows up your conyard. Or one disguised as a dog, shows up at your base, and just lingers around doing nothing, making you think you're safe against spies, when you aren't.

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Virgil
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 22 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverwind wrote:
MRMIdAS wrote:
silverwind wrote:
Suggestion: Chameleon / Ditto

An expansion to the spy logic that would allow a unit to copy an enemy unit completely, instead of just looks.

[InfantryTypes]?Chameleon = Boolean
  Whether this infantry can mimic an enemy completely. Uses MakeDisguise.

Essentially, the main idea is for the unit to switch out its Image= Primary=, Secondary=, UIName= and Armor= out with that of the unit it's copying from.

That way, we can have a spy who, up on picking up a disguise, can defend for himself, in addition to his spy duties.

Spy= may be referenced for whether he changes remap colors, and retains infiltration capabilities.

Consider this as very low priority.


How does he change disguise from infantry to another?

So say he's a SEAL, then the enemy builds TANYA, how would he change disguise without interpreting a click on TANYA as "kill this with your machine gun"


He won't. He's not a regular spy. He only gets to pick up disguises once, and then becomes a combatant. The moment he uses the makeupkit, he would change disguise, and then change his weapons themselves to whatever he used the makeupkit on. If that isn't an enemy spy, then he would no longer be able to change disguise, remaining disguised until killed.

The basic idea is that of an intruder. A spy who picks up disguises along with the weapon the enemy uses, not just cosmetics. disguised as a Tesla Trooper? Use Tesla Bolts and Assault Bolts. As Tanya? Use Pistols and ATC4 charges.

Imagine a couple of these disguised as a seal who shows up at your base and blows up your conyard. Or one disguised as a dog, shows up at your base, and just lingers around doing nothing, making you think you're safe against spies, when you aren't.


So what should he do when he disguised himself as enemy engineer and trying to do something to an damaged enemy building with a ivan bomb planted by a third house on it? Should he repair it for the enemy? or disarm the bomb? or sabotarge? or capture? Razz

No, i dont think the game engine can make it clear what should he do ,the same as setting waypoint on a MWF always causes it to undeploy and move to this destination in RA2 and YR. Something always have to override something else as long as they all give the same command to the same unit. A transport cannot deploy into something else because unload and deploy use the same command and the game engine have no idea when should he do what, that's it. Sad

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see a one-time unit conversion being useful for a spy/infiltrator/whatever too, you would have to be very picky and strategic about what you emulate/become, but beyond that tactically it seems fine to me.
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MRMIdAS
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much what Virgil said. It's entirely unworkable, requires too much coding, a re-write of existing "force fire" code, brings up too many issues that could cause the game to shit itself (on top of the many strange things that YR craps its pants over anyway) and would be absolutely zero fun.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the logic aspect, why would a spy for England be able to make a tesla suit or suddenly develop mind control powers?

Your disguise would be effectively a form of technology transfer if the spy ecompassed all the traits of the target. That seems silly to me.
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silverwind
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
There's also the logic aspect, why would a spy for England be able to make a tesla suit or suddenly develop mind control powers?

Your disguise would be effectively a form of technology transfer if the spy ecompassed all the traits of the target. That seems silly to me.


This thought hit me too when I came up with it.

Regarding what Virgil said, when you chamo as an enemy engineer, for example, the following could happen:
1. you 'become' the enemy engineer, every aspect of him, including the side.
2. the original owner retains control of you.

He'll basically have all the pros and cons of an engineer, and all the problems faced by one. Whether to repair or disarm a bomb, being one of them. He'd go the same decision making route as a regular engineer.

That is one way, but that doesn't address what G-E said, and it basically doesn't make much sense, and makes for an very overpowered unit as far as technology goes. A modder _could_ make such a unit only available after getting technology from all 3 sides, to make it more sensical, but I personally don't like such units.

The alternative is for such a unit to only copy the looks and the weapons. nothing else from the enemy would be copied. So basically, the regular spy plus weapons.


@MrMIDAS, I think you misunderstand the idea. There's no forcefire involved. Simply a weapon-swap on top of the regular image swap, effectively making it a single-use disguise.


In any case, this is a rather low-priority suggestion, and I mainly wanted to put it out here for discussions sake. Aside from the strategic aspect, it doesn't really have much going for it, and given the choice, I'd much rather have actual STOL aircraft instead.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way I see it reasonably sane is that each side has a list of valid disguises, similar to the default disguise currently, but expanded to allow more low-tier or conventional units. So you could fully emulate a GI/Seal, but not a Tanya/Yuri etc. The key to making this work would have to be some translation, so let's say you select a Tesla Trooper, it will still make you a Conscript.

So the picker would only be able to pick sides rather than any character on that side. Of course this nullfies most of the gain of assuming the character in the first place, and thus seems too superfluous to pursue... unless your mod happens to have a ton of conventional infantry, which let's face it, none do.

What does make sense to mek is a DisguiseOnce=yes option, preventing a unit from choosing a new disguise, preferably cursor locked too. If you wanna get really fancy, this would be handy for a Terrorist specifically, once disguised use the secondary weapon to attack everything, rather than the disguise picker. This would also allow a new form of Allied spies to have a C4 secondary like Tanya, without affecting a basic spy's function.
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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't you just give the MakeupKit 1 ammo & no reload, then use NoAmmoWeapon= on the secondary.  Then the infantry could only disguise itself once & then be forced to use its secondary weapon.
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Ich-Henker
AA Infantry


Joined: 06 Aug 2015
Location: Germany/Austria

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

***************************************  Ares Suggestions:
1. Promote Units one or two steps at a time Via Warhead (SWWarhead)
2. Bunkers fire with AA and AG Weapons simultaneaously
3. Thus TechLevel=11 does not work(!!) on units there must be a way for cloned units to be only build by AI
without using cloned buildings as prerequisits, (where the logic with tech level -1 works),to exclude them from players sidebar. Tech Level -1 on units excludes them from ai production!
4. Academy to effect all existing units too (if so wished)
4.1 Academy bonus given by infantry or vehicles
4.2 Academy Bonus to trigger Cameo Change
5. Attach Effect To be able to affect Buildings
6. Separate Factory building queues (Air Center produces Kirovs seperately from Weapons Factory producing ground vehicles)
7. Definable click size [as in body of unit in cells instead 1x1] for big units while remaining 1x1 actual size for movement (Like SolidBuidings, Solid Unit-Logic)
8. Enter or exit from swimming to hover or water transports
9. Tag fro a building that makes you select and act allied [AI] units (like a remote control).
10.SWType=paradrop to accept AIrequires target: water
11. Ship Paraddropped on bridge slides on bridge instead of going into water
12. Carryall to work on enemy units (Stealer Unit)
13. Make AI able to build walls around captured tech buildings
14. Status Effect Logic (Via Attach Effect)
14.1 Status effect /mind control removal by heal weapons [ - attach effects weapon disable etc.]
15. WantsExtraSpaceInCells = Distance the ai has to build a buildings from other owned buidings
16. Bug = Ship dropped on a bridge becomes a sliding land unit.
17. Promotion to more then two steps [Veteran, Elite, Commander]
18. Adjacency to a specific Building only (to NAYARD for example)

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Virgil
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 22 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ich-Henker wrote:
***************************************  Ares Suggestions:
3. Thus TechLevel=11 does not work(!!) on units there must be a way for cloned units to be only build by AI
without using cloned buildings as prerequisits, (where the logic with tech level -1 works),to exclude them from players sidebar. Tech Level -1 on units excludes them from ai production!
5. Attach Effect To be able to affect Buildings
11. Ship Paraddropped on bridge slides on bridge instead of going into water
13. Make AI able to build walls around captured tech buildings
16. Bug = Ship dropped on a bridge becomes a sliding land unit.
17. Promotion to more then two steps [Veteran, Elite, Commander]


3.TechLevel=-1 doesnt prevent AI from building it and TechLevel=11 prevents everyone from building it, AI also doesnt respect Prerequisite=. Check ModEnc for TechLevel and Ares Documents for Prerequisite System.
5.A warhead with 0% versus building armor doesnt affect buildings and it shouldnt.
11&16.Why paradropping ships?
13.Does ProtectWithWall= not work on them?
17.Use promotion conversion in 2.0 to achieve it.

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