Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:52 am Post subject:
About turret's barrel
I couldn't find a better title so here is ingame screenshot describes what is the problem about the turret's barrel.
I tried many barrels and turrets but the same result, I get various
HVA positions in different angles, precisely when I tilt or rotate the barral HVA's (X) upwards, as if get's inserted inside the turret
Combine the Barrel into the Turret.vxl file itself.
Multisection?
This method I have tried it once before but I found it hard to place it properly via the HVA or the values in the VSE header.
Isn't there much easier one,and what is the cause of this barrel behaviour anyway??
EDIT: Wait a minute, do you mean to add to the voxel it self frame by frame?
Have you noticed that the barrel must be tilted upward since it's an artillery unit? QUICK_EDIT
If you HVA rotate the normals values become increasingly incorrect since they remain what was correct prior to rotation.
As a rule you should avoid rotating except by very small amounts, in the case of an artillery barrel, I'd recommend just drawing it again in the turret voxel at an angle. Just pick the grade, how many dots horizontal per 1 dot vertical rise, and draw accordingly. _________________ http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai QUICK_EDIT
IIRC the barrel is always shown in game at some angle, even without any rotation in hva, so draw a turret with its barrel is recommended, as long as you dont need it to do some recoil animation like the grand cannon. QUICK_EDIT
Have you tried not using an HVA rotation and using FireAngle=24 on the unit? _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
I knew that I will get the recommendation of adding the barrel to the turret by drawing it
I don't prefer it because of the step looking?
@Virgil
I know that separate barrels gets a different looking far away from the hva normal adjusting to the turret, which means that you have to check it ingame and adjust the barrel somehow like rotating it downwards in HVA to look normally horizontal ingame not in HVA editor, I have always did that in my normal tank models and they do look perfect horizontal ingame with no strange looking in any known angle.
The problem here is that I have to keep the barrel the same way as it looks in the HVA and as I mentioned I'm just worrying about the step looking when I draw it in a Diagonal way upwards
so any suggestions or I just have no options but that way, can some one deal with multisection thing?
The engine has to render it stepped anyway, that's the nature of pixel art without anti-aliasing.
The normals and colours can be touched up by hand to mitigate any problems you have with it, you can even to convincing compound curves and diameter changes with a combination of shading and normals.
Yeah unfortunately, but I'm not that good with hand made normals in VSE, anyway there another trick I'm trying it if it failed I will try the drawing solution.
Those guys who makes helicopters with many rotors as multisections are excellent in VSE headers thing, I which I know how to adjust the header properly, ironically, this is the only design made by Yurilee and has no multisection
Multisection is typical in his work like if it's a trademark QUICK_EDIT
1. Copy and paste normals, so that all the slope pixels on a given plane match.
If your barrel is 4 pixels wide the side planes should be smaller (about 2 pixels tall) than the middle planes, and you can change the normals on the upper edge to be the same for each step... repeat for bottom edge, just select the second one from the tip of the step, from one of the middling steps, to use for all the others.
2. Make it bigger and shrink!
Oversizing your voxel will allow you to use the engine to average out colours and normals, in effect adding twice as much detail to make it supersample. This averaging means that if you have a dispute, but 2 adjacent pixels agree, it will most always cancel out the one that's too divergent. _________________ http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai QUICK_EDIT
anyway here is what I made, it's still needs work, but before drawing it I tried copying the original barrel by this way
1-increased the size of the turret by resizing canvas not full resizing and adjusted it to the center in all the three sides or windows (back,top,right).
2-set the side which I'm going to work on it to the back side in both of the two models
3- started to hand draw "not copying" every frame in the original barrel to turret starting from the bottom and with every frame get's done I scroll to the next frame and so on.
But I found it a very long operation because the original barrel is too long so I preferred drawing a new one, so I set the turret to right side or window and this was the result
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject:
Looks fine. Now if you're using Lobber=yes on the projectile, the shell is going to come out at a higher arc than the barrel would suggest.
It shouldn't be time consuming though.
This is more or less what I do:
Draw the barrel normally (IE at a 0 degree elevation)
Using your preferred image editor, individually rotate each layer of the barrel. On another image, put the rotated barrel together with the corresponding layer of the turret. Repeat that step for each layer of the barrel.
Doesn't take too long because typically barrels are only 3-6 units thick.
Makes it easier to preserve extra details as well, like the muzzle brake and recoil cylinders on this artillery piece. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Now that's a much better idea, you mean to draw it and then by using XCC to I extract it as images and rotate every layer with an image editor right?? but how to merge the barrel and the turret correctly, I mean how to make the barrel bottom's end attach the front of the turret
EDIT: I figured it out, you want me to draw it in same VXL file of the turret and then after the PXC extraction I select the barrel frames to rotate them after that convert them all to VXL, Because the images have to be the same size and when they are two separate vxl files they won't be the same size, Am I right?
But there will be another problem, the image size will be changed after I do rotation to the layer!!! QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:32 am Post subject:
You can copy individual voxel layers and paste them into image editors directly. No need for an XCC middle man
Just find the layer you want to edit, press CTRL-C, and then paste it into the image editor.
It'll come out flipped, but you can easily correct that and then make your edits to it. When you are done, flip it again, copy and paste it back into VXLSE (make sure what you are selecting has the same dimensions as the voxel, though) _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
sorry I didn't understand that one, please explain more and please put in your mind that I'm not a graphic artist and I have no experience about any graphic programs. QUICK_EDIT
look, I tried previously copying from voxel to another voxel exactly like you just said but whenever I paste the frame into the file I want, it just never gets pated in the correct place if the sizes doesn't match in both of the models and I always get it pasted in the bottom left and not only that, I get another pixels that fills the whole window and if i deleted it it deletes the original layer of the original vxl, do you understand any thing from the nonsense I just said
I will try to screen shot what I mean to make you understand it QUICK_EDIT
here is my attempt of pasting a layer of a barrel VXL file to a turret VXL file Last edited by TRUEGRIT on Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:32 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:11 am Post subject:
Don't use full-sized images like that
You're going to use your image editor as an intermediary here. You're not going to be able to copy and paste layers of differing size between VXLSE windows. It can't do that
This is a different example. I have my light tank here, let's say I want to merge the barrel into the turret.
I have the turret and barrel open in separate VXLSE instances.
I then copy-pasted the appropriate turret layer into MS Paint. That's "A" in that image (36x18). Do the same thing with the barrel, that's "B". (25x4)
I flip the image so it's properly oriented, and do my editing. In this case, merging the barrel and turret; that's "C" (56x18).
After that, I flip it so it pastes back into VXLSE correctly ("D" in the image). In VXLSE ("E" in the image), I lengthen the canvas so it matches the dimensions of the combined layer I just made in MS Paint (56x18).
The light tank's barrel is 4 units wide, so I would repeat the process for the other 3 layers. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
1. Open both Voxel Files and Make both the Turret and Barrel have the same canvas dimensions. (I.E: both are 30x50x30)
2. Copy the layer of the barrel into photoshop. This will past it as a new layer. Open to the Turret VXL File and copy the barrel. If the barrel isn't in the right position adjust the Barrel VXL File until its correct when copied into the photoshop or Turret File.
3. Repeat process until all parts of the barrel are in the Turret File and haven't got chopped off by the Canvas being too small,etc. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
Sorry guys I know that you have simplified it as much as you can but it takes time for those who are going to do this for the first time aren't they
As I said I have no experience with any kind of graphic programs so it's gonna take time to fully understand it.
I don't wanna be an annoying person so I'm giving you a rest from me, and for now I will do my best to apply your instructions, but let me now tell you what I understood:
Say that I copied a layer from the turret or the barrel into MS Paint okay(have no photoshop or it's experience), and I flipped it to be looking normally as it should be in VSE, we are going to call this a layer or the first frame at the VSE so the next step is copying the second layer of the turret and the barrel ( the appropriate one )and paste them into the MS Paint and flipping them to look normally when pasting them into the VSE and so on right? QUICK_EDIT
And please G-E,...... well I dunno how to say that but I know it was a long discussion about some silly barrel issue but every one has a taste okay, and I didn't like the the steppy looks of the hand drawn barrel, and that's why I was insisting and willing to much to go through this copying method,and thankfully to EVA-251 and Atomic_Noodlesthey have simplified the instructions of how to do it, and I followed it but I couldn't find the proper program that can rotate an image without destroying it or making it blurry.
Right now I have no choice but to commit to the hand drawn steppy looking one,specially after you have helped me and draw the fume extractor thing, but I do still want to learn.
I just want a program enables me to rotate the barrel layer WITHOUT making it blurry or ruin it's looking at least for further models editing
Anyway Thank you man and ofcourse everyone QUICK_EDIT
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