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Deamericanising Red Alert
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Grantelbart
Medic


Joined: 13 Apr 2019
Location: southern Germany (Austria)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject:  Deamericanising Red Alert
Subject description: Making Red alert more authentic
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Don't let the title make you think I dislike America  Razz
No, I am talking about the way too American themed units in the mod.

Let's start with the most obvious: Soviet, German, British and French soldiers equipped with M1 helmets and m1 carbine? Nice job Westwood.
(Sorry, I couldn't get the image previews to work here)
So I decided to at least give the Soviets their own cameos:

I still have to decide how to design the flamethrower or the shock trooper, but I am pretty happy with my results so far  Smile
I am going to create unique cameos for each allied faction (since I can't think of any uniform that could fit all of them) in the comming weeks.

Next up: Have you ever played as France and clicked at a soldier who replied with: "Howdy, I'm from commin' from Texas"? Me neither, but I just don't get it why Westwood decided to let the Europeans speak American English. Thankfully I found sounds for the Germans and British, but unfortunatelly I have to record the French voices myself (unless someone here can do a convincing French accent  Cool)

About the units:
I think the allies just don't feel European at all. the two things that bother me especially are the fact that they are using jeeps and helicopters (of which one is Soviet).
I was thinking about replacing the jeep (ranger) either with an armoured car (something like a Panhard 178, a Sd.Kfz 222 or a Humber Mk.IV) or a motorcycle (most likely a BMW R75). Unfortunatelly it would break the early game balance if we gave the allies an armoured car, but it will be much harder to create graphics for a motorcycle (please let me know if someone of you already has shps). I found models for both and I will try to create shps for both, but I first have to learn how to use blender.

Please let me know if you have other suggestions or possible contributions.

Update 15.04.2019:
Added French sounds
Replaced the Soviet APC with a real Soviet one

Update 29.04.2019:
Resized infantry
New flamethrower cameo



british0.wav
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germans0.1.wav
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Soviets0.PNG
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Soviets0.PNG



deamericanised_ra_0.3.zip
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Last edited by Grantelbart on Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:58 pm; edited 6 times in total

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NimoStar
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting project, that's all I can say

There is a mortar cycle SHP converted from RA3 that you could ostensibly resize but it is crewed by soviet conscripts. However, it is doubtfuyl that will be evident at RA scale...
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Grantelbart
Medic


Joined: 13 Apr 2019
Location: southern Germany (Austria)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip! Yeah, I was thinking about that, but I would have to do lot's of recolouring. It would probably be still less work than creating sprites from models though.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've noticed similar things in DTA.
e.g. the Allies Flak is called ZSU in the ini, ZSU is a soviet flak.
The soviet V2 launcher using a german V2 missile.
Medium and Light tank are slightly changed Bradley and M1A1 from TD.

Grantelbart wrote:
I just don't get it why Westwood decided to let the Europeans speak American English.

Probably a lot less work and cheaper than adding voice sets for each country.
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Grantelbart
Medic


Joined: 13 Apr 2019
Location: southern Germany (Austria)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, there are some naming issues, but I don't mind them that much. For me the V2 rocket launcher is simply a scud launcher #Tongue
And if you ignore the cameos the light and medium tank could be many different European tanks.
Also, I have to say that DTA is probably one of the most innovative OpenRA mods I've ever played. Especially the UI is amazing.

Quote:
Probably a lot less work and cheaper than adding voice sets for each country.

They could have given them some kind of accent though or British English voicelines (like what they did with the Soviets). Don't forget that the subfactions only existed in multiplayer #Tongue
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twistedconversion
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Joined: 23 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, DTA is a Tiberian Sun mod, which uses Rampastring's client.
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EVA-251
General


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LKO nails it.

It's likely also why they used recycled TD assets for most of the units, why actors used in the cutscenes/inf cameos  are wearing American-style gear.
(though I personally feel it's more that WW wasn't nearly as invested in the "lore" of CNC as many seem to think, a few decades later)

I like what you've done, though. The minimalist approach to the cameo changes is welcome. Voices sound okay.
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PussyPus
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty obvious the attack dog looks American, but i already know it's the german dog.
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raminator
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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the V2 was originally ment to be a German only unit.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raminator wrote:
the V2 was originally ment to be a German only unit.

Country specific units in RA1? Is that deduced from early promo pictures? (IIRC there is one showing a blue V2)
What would have been soviets artillery then?
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Grantelbart
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Joined: 13 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright boys, just two new additions:
A more Soviet APC (that I stole from Combined Arms) to replace the M113 (plus, the APC is a turreted unit now) and French voices. Unfortunatelly the vehicle voices don't sound similar enough for my taste and my extremely chadlike, ultra heterosexual and totally not crappy voice doesn't fit either :/
Also, I experimented with Blender and I got this:

I still have to figure lot's of stuff out, but when I succeed and it's easy enough I will redo the tanks of Red Alert 1 Very Happy Wish me luck!

Let me know what you think of the sounds so far.

Ps. I tried to work with the mortar cycle shp from RA3, but unfortunatelly it doesn't have enough facings, so unfortunatelly I have to create the sprites myself :/


french.wav
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How the Frenchies sound
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my chadlike voice.wav
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how I sound
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apc.png
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The new APC (now with a turret)
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apc.png



shermantest4.png
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How much I suck at blender
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shermantest4.png



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raminator
Commander


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Bierkasten

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
raminator wrote:
the V2 was originally ment to be a German only unit.

Country specific units in RA1? Is that deduced from early promo pictures? (IIRC there is one showing a blue V2)
What would have been soviets artillery then?


RA was ment to be an addon to TD when development stated. afaik country specific units was one of the ideas WW played with.
Also some of the points stated above were changes made during balancing.


Also that APC looks pretty much like the APC I did ages ago for TDX.
Is it free for use now? Too much time has passed #Tongue
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Grantelbart
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Joined: 13 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also that APC looks pretty much like the APC I did ages ago for TDX.

Oh, so you made it. I just got it form the Combined Arms mod #Tongue

Also, I am one step closer to making my own sprites:

I know it's out of place, but it's going to become a sherman tank. I still have to figure out how to rotate it though.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when creating sprites, you usually let the camera rotate around it (the lights attached to the camera so they follow)
This way things like backwards moving effects like dust don't need to be suddenly rotated at the moment the facing changes.
No clue how the Blender template does it though, but i'm quite sure DonutArnold included already everything necessary to rotate either unit or camera.

I like the french sounds.
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Grantelbart
Medic


Joined: 13 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try tomorrow. I have to figure out how to use Blender in general #Tongue Also, I think DonutArnold did indeed include everything, but I think Blender changed too much (the hotkeys he mentioned in the readme for example don't work at all) and Blender just looks different with every single new release.
But yeah, I'm intending to redo all (non-infantry) units in Red Alert that use assets from Tiberian Dawn since those units all look crappy, to be honest. Flat, small and the colors are also weird when compared to the other units.
This means:
Light Tank (probably some French light tank from ww2)
Medium Tank (a mixture of a Panzer VI and a A34 Comet? Do you think post ww2 tanks would be better?)
Heavy Tank (likely a T-80 with 2 barrels, like on the cameo)
Chinook (Chinook Wink)
APC  (probably a BTR-60, like the one I stole)
Phase Transport (probably the current turret on a medium tank chassis)
Minelayer => ?
Artillery => will probably stay the same
Mammoth Tank => same

Do you have any suggestions?
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DonutArnold
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Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To use the current released version of the template, you need to use Blender 2.79a. 2.80 will have its own template which is still work in progress. (If you're currently using 2.80 and want to give it a try, I can send you an early version as soon as I've done the RA1/TD scene)

Also, go to composer and you can find a mask node which allows you to render with resized canvas, just connect the file output node and set correct filename and path. Keep the main render output to tmp as you won't be needing it.

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Grantelbart
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Joined: 13 Apr 2019
Location: southern Germany (Austria)

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the offer. That's very nice, but I will try to work with 2.79a.
Also, I don't want to sound like a kissass, but what you have done is just amazing Very Happy Unfortunatelly people are often times forced to use templates for 3ds Max or Poser, but you made Blender much more accessible.
Quote:
Also, go to composer and you can find a mask node which allows you to render with resized canvas, just connect the file output node and set correct filename and path. Keep the main render output to tmp as you won't be needing it.

I will try this very soon. Wish me luck Very Happy
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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your voice is ok. Don't be too harsh on yourself. Plus, you have programs that can augment it if you so wish.

The BMP for the soviets looks good. Well done! ^.^
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I like the french sounds.


The first French voice is The_Hunter's own Felin Rifleman voiceover from Rise of the Reds. You're praising a ripper.
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PussyPus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I like the french sounds.


The first French voice is The_Hunter's own Felin Rifleman voiceover from Rise of the Reds. You're praising a ripper.


Even if he ripped it, it doesn't mean he is doing this in purpose of proclaiming it's his voice, he didn't even say it was his voice.
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Grantelbart
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Joined: 13 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The BMP for the soviets looks good. Well done! ^.^

Thanks #Tongue
I hoped to bring out a finished Sherman tank, but because I am a brainlet I created 36 facings instead of 32 -_-
Anyways, here is how the chassis looks like. I made it intentionally bigger than the medium tank, sicne honestly most tanks are way too tiny when compared to other vehicles (the ranger is bigger than the light tank for example).
Btw, does anyone know how I can change the colour of the shadow? I want it to be green so I have less work (since I'm lazy).
Also, I will not have any internet for 4 days, so there will be no replies for a while.


sherman alpha1.gif
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sherman alpha1.gif



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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking good!
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Grantelbart
Medic


Joined: 13 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, but now it looks even "moar better"  Cool

https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=46937
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Grantelbart
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only two changes:

.)the Soviet flamethrower finally has a more authentic cameo
.)all Infantryunits now have a more authentic size

Edit: Also, here is a little preview of how the Shock Trooper might end up looking


shock trooper.PNG
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Shok Trooper
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shock trooper.PNG



newflamethrower.PNG
 Description:
new Soviet flamethrower
 Filesize:  20.91 KB
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newflamethrower.PNG



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Inqubi
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Joined: 18 Dec 2014

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raminator wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
raminator wrote:
the V2 was originally ment to be a German only unit.

Country specific units in RA1? Is that deduced from early promo pictures? (IIRC there is one showing a blue V2)
What would have been soviets artillery then?


RA was ment to be an addon to TD when development stated. afaik country specific units was one of the ideas WW played with.
Also some of the points stated above were changes made during balancing.


Also that APC looks pretty much like the APC I did ages ago for TDX.
Is it free for use now? Too much time has passed #Tongue


It is your APC, (with the fixed turret removed)
I got permission Reaperrr to use it in Combined Arms as long as it was credited. (which it has been on moddb) (Although I didn't know the artist at the time, so I just put Reaperrr & TDX crew)  Smile

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Saref
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Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think double barreled T-80 is not best option for heavy tank. IMO it should be something more from that time.
It could be double barreled T-54, even characterestics fits, it almost fast as medium tank and have 100mm cannons, like Heavy Tank in RA1. Otherwise it can be a real world later soviet heavy tanks, like IS-3 or more advanced T-10M but that latest heavy tanks have some resembles to much later T-64, T-72 and T-80.

Also, i think Shermans and other WW2 tanks can take role of Light Tank. For Medium Tank i think it should be different, more advanced models who can fight against soviet heavy tanks. M48 Patton for USA, Leopard-1 (or E-50) for Germany, AMX-30 for France, Centurion for British.

Same with helicopters. I think AH-1 Cobra will be good replacement for Apache Longbow, because it is too high tech for RA1 era. Hind if it stays with Allies should be replaced with differend chopper, like UH-1 huey with miniguns. If it will return to soviets it can be replaced with early model of Hind, Mi-24A with squared cockpit.

About planes. Yak fits its era, but possible should be replaced with IL-10M which is real ground attack plane.

MiG-29 is also too high-tech for RA1 era. MiG-17 or early MiG-21 will look better for that timeline.

No problems with V-2 launcher. Name not fits it, but actually it is real world soviet Luna-M launcher (or FROG-7) and it quite fits timeline.

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PostPosted: Yesterday, at 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the Sherman is a good fit for the time period... (especially the early version you have there) (It was a bad tank even by WW2 standards)

Red Alert is based in Europe & the Allied factions are England, France & Germany, Although the time period is set somewhere around the Korean/Vietnam War with some anomalies such as the Apache Longbow.

Hence you get the mix of prop & jet aircraft, AA gun's & early AA missile systems, Heavy tanks were still a thing - although becomming uncommon.

Most likely the Allied light tanks would be some form of British cruiser tanks
the Cromwell or the Comet.

Medium tanks would probably be some kind of Centurion based tank or Pershing/Patton perhaps.

Heavy tanks would possibly be a double barreled T64/T72 tank.

Mammoth tanks are recycled from C&C but the Soviets did play with the heavy/super heavy concept more than Allies. So probably an IS series tank or ST-II concept.

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