Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject:
AI Generals in Tiberian Sun
Subject description: Brain Dead is the official description of Tiberian Sun's AI.
Do you know that, during the development of Tiberian Sun, Westwood Studios actually tried to implement a system of AI Generals, where each AI houses could be associated with Generals that would provide different behaviors?
They planned to add five "Generals":
• Brain Dead - No behavior defined.
• General Meade - Strong defense, weak attack.
• General Jackson - Strong defense, strong attack.
• General Grant - Weak defense, frequent attack.
• General Hooker - Unpredictable.
But the idea was abandoned at some point, commented out. When I was a more active Tiberian Sun modder, I tried to understand the leftovers of this feature [registered users only], especially seen at ai.tlb file (but also at game.exe), and figure out if it was possible to use it.
Some of you may know that in my free time these days, I still research the TibSun engine for the Vinifera(shameless plug) project. Last night, I was just going through the section of TibSun that handles all the AI Houses and their "per frame tick" (simple terms, the routine the game executes to process the AI house every second) rules and I noticed something, a small call to a function that seems to never get made, because its requirements are never met. I decided to research this further.
We know that TibSun does not read the [AIGenerals] from the RULES.INI, we have done for some time now. But did you know that all the COM CLSID's that are defined in that list are actually embedded into the games executable? If you are into technical details, you can read up on how COM and interfaces work at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model, but in simple terms, it is the same system as Locomotors use.
The TLB files that ship with the game are not necessarily useless, to people who actively reverse engineer the game or are interested in how games are programmed, they contain some great information.
If you are curious, visit our Tiberian Sun Research Center and check out this topic about AI Generals from CCHyper. But note that all Research forums here are restricted to registered users only. It takes few seconds to register on the forums and you don't get spammed because of that. So, it should not be a problem.
You have a whole lot of misconceptions here. See, when you say "Tiberian Sun was planned to have X" you have to understand that there never was a plan.
Tiberian Sun wasn't ruined by EA it was ruined by Westwood. Louis Castle said so himself in I believe it was the TFD interview.
What basically happened was, they were so successful and got so much money that they thought they could do it all. Then they thought about every crazy idea they could possibly come up with and attempted to implement it just for the heck of it.
This isn't the most outrageous idea they had. And I think we got it in... Zero Hour? Either that or TW I am not sure.
Anyway lets name a really outrageous idea they had:
Accuracy and accuracy affected by light.
The idea was that there would be light posts everywhere and other light sources. There would also be a dynamic day & night cycle. Depending on how bright the ground was at the units position the more accurate its gun would be.
Totally crazy and bad gameplay idea but whatever.
Tiberian Sun isn't just rushed its a game that never had a scope and only 50% of what they wanted to do got done and only another 50% of those 50% got polished.
Ah yes CCHyper... what a fool its so pathetic his patch is still 0.3 from 2013 or something and now he wastes his time remaking Red Alert because we really need yet another version of that. And ofc no update on the hyper patch because "reasons".
Not the only thing that never got far. At least it released, thats more than some others can claim.
So yeah its quite interesting to see how much has happened since... oh my it was 2012 I believe.
The AI is capable of a great many things. I only ever got to scratch on the surface of it, barely understanding the tags and stuff in the map editor.
Sadly Westwood never harnessed its potential. One reason that broke my spirit in continuing the campaign missions was the sad fact that the Westwood missions are total garbage.
Like some of the even later ones are 0 challenge even on hard. The Ai will attack you after like 10 minutes with 4 light infantry and 3 titans. Then bumrush you with an APC full of engineers so you can restart LMAO.
The strange thing is I remember that back in the early 2000s when I had a Windows 98 PC the AI was harder. This was especially true for Age of Empires which would build like 100 barracks and attack with crazy armies.
Anyway for campaign you don't need this and skirmish never was their priority it seems so... I doubt you can make much use of these remnants. QUICK_EDIT
You have a whole lot of misconceptions here. See, when you say "Tiberian Sun was planned to have X" you have to understand that there never was a plan.
Oh OrangeNero, remember me? By the way, We already know they scarped the idea, but at least we found a valuable modding thing. _________________ If you are a MetalHead (Heavy Metal Fan) and don't want to be a metalhead, Just remove your metal ball from your head. �:p .
QUICK_EDIT
The idea was that there would be light posts everywhere and other light sources. There would also be a dynamic day & night cycle. Depending on how bright the ground was at the units position the more accurate its gun would be.
This would've certainly made gameplay more interesting. It'd have emphasized micro more. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject:
OrangeNero wrote:
You have a whole lot of misconceptions here. See, when you say "Tiberian Sun was planned to have X" you have to understand that there never was a plan.
Tiberian Sun wasn't ruined by EA it was ruined by Westwood. Louis Castle said so himself in I believe it was the TFD interview.
... etc ...
Hello OrangeNero.
I think you are so much eager to vent... so much anxiety that you haven't really read my post in a proper way. You just thought I'd blame EA for all bad things on Tiberian Sun and started to build your ideas around it. But that is not what I said at all. Cool down, take a deep breath, read it again and then, we can start a fair discussion about it. QUICK_EDIT
Umm.... not that I'm complaining someone came back under a new username, but didn't someone say that second and third and subsequent accounts would get banned too? Something about the rules around here?
Is there an exception when one shows he no longer behaves the way he did and/or has been absent for a few years? _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:33 pm Post subject:
Where is this rule? Honestly, people who were banned before gets banned again because they act like a troll. If they behave, they don't get banned. There are many people who were banned before and still post here using different accounts. OrangeNero's return was not good at all because he is trolling, but he wasn't banned yet because he still has a chance to do better. If he maintain his trolling behavior, he'll need to make more accounts. QUICK_EDIT
Ah, never mind then. I just misunderstood something I read on the site long ago then. I think it was around the time I made my own account. _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
Hmm nah PussyPus that name rings no bell. Did you change your name? I remember most of you. Old times, good times, well no not really sadly since none of you could accept the "program that shall not be named".
Look I am not here to pick fights I am mainly interested in ya know C&C and am a bit sad that so many mods that I was looking forward to from back in the day have not come to fruition.
I think after 7 years of leaving you guys alone we can get along yes? Would be nice I mean I really don't have anything against you.
So yeah if the Desert Wasteland mod developer is interested into my help I'll gladly help him a bit and look for what.
I saw mechcaseal around so I guessed hey if he's here then surely you wouldn't have a problem tolerating me.
Oh and so cool Haosis or whats he called still has my glorious quote in his signature so I guess I never left this place hehe. QUICK_EDIT
You have a whole lot of misconceptions here. See, when you say "Tiberian Sun was planned to have X" you have to understand that there never was a plan.
Tiberian Sun wasn't ruined by EA it was ruined by Westwood. Louis Castle said so himself in I believe it was the TFD interview.
... etc ...
Hello OrangeNero.
I think you are so much eager to vent... so much anxiety that you haven't really read my post in a proper way. You just thought I'd blame EA for all bad things on Tiberian Sun and started to build your ideas around it. But that is not what I said at all. Cool down, take a deep breath, read it again and then, we can start a fair discussion about it.
Nah you didn't blame EA you're right and I agree. I just hear this "C&C was planned to have X" thing once too often these days that it urged me to add my 5 cents. QUICK_EDIT
Where is this rule? Honestly, people who were banned before gets banned again because they act like a troll. If they behave, they don't get banned. There are many people who were banned before and still post here using different accounts. OrangeNero's return was not good at all because he is trolling, but he wasn't banned yet because he still has a chance to do better. If he maintain his trolling behavior, he'll need to make more accounts.
<my 5 cents at administrating>
well eh, banning is not only a punishment, it's a restriction to keep out the one who are being banned from posting and/or visiting the forum. what's the point in banning if one could just make a new account and "behave"? that would encourage irresponsibility.
</my 5 cents at administrating> _________________ Using MagicaVoxel to create voxel models :: Phobos YR Engine Extension
I wasn't even banned I think, banshee refused to ban my account and so I told him to close it. Or something along those lines i don't remember the details.
Why is this becomming a discussion about banning but then you say I gotta stay on tpoic? Double standdard ***** all around go **** yourself. QUICK_EDIT
You do realise the issue here is your current behavior rather than anyone wanting to ban anyone, right?
You and Mechacaseal will get along just fine, I'm sure. _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
what literally even is this post?
i remember seeing cchyper saying some interesting things about aigenerals on discord the other day, though
i didnt really understand the specifics well. still, he would be worth asking about it methinks _________________ visit my moddb profile for .shp downloads and stuff QUICK_EDIT
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
TAK02, haha! I do not have account there. But I see you are active as well. You are everywhere. What language is he using anyway? You seem to understand him _________________
Sprechen Sie english? _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
Do you speak Deutsch? _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
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