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CnC 3 - Relation to TS?
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Orca004ky
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Atlantis

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm jumping in late in this argument because I've been out of the loop forever.

[b]
(on the removal of mechanized walkers.)[/b]

In my opinion GDI would have never stopped using traditonal mechanized vechiles and tactics, due to the fact that switching to a mechanized walker force would leave alot of shortcommings that could be exploited by the enemy. So I am almost sure that GDI would have kept alot of upgraded Tiberian Dawn units in its arsenal. The X-26 Mammoth Tank and the M1 Abrams being the two that come to mind.

With the introduction of the new mammoth tank, we can clearly see that GDI has learned valuable lessons from making a mechanized walker fighting force, and the removal of them from the battlefield is probably just temporary, so that new technologies for balancing, fire control, and tactics may be developed.

We can also see that Nod has seen the importance of walkers and is dabbling in the field themselves.

This path of removing a weapon system from a battlefield, just to have them re-introduced later is not entirely uncommon.

After world war 1, many nations, including the United States and Great Britian, were not very interested in converting their armies to a mechanized fighting force due to the lack of need for them at the time.

However today's trend in military tactics revolves around mechanization.

This because of the fact that during world war 2 advances were made in technologies that made mass mechanization possible and practical.

On a side note, it is clear that GDI has not dropped interest in mechanized walkers, as we see the Juggernaught Mark III in the battlefield, which does bear resemblence to its Mark I cousin. Futher blogs and media releases may reveal more on this rather elusive mech system.

However, I have a feeling that we will see mechanized walking vehicles emerge on both sides.

[b](On ineffective weapons)[/b]

Most of the Global Defense Initiative using the (in)famous shock and awe strategy. And most of GDI's technology is beneath the surface.

Take the mammoth tank for example. To use it on a large and massive scale would be obsurd. However the demoralizing value it has when it enters a battlefield would be more than enough reason to keep it in active service. And that being said, the mammoth tank is a good fire support weapon with long range anti-aircraft capabilities, so its support would be greatly appreciated by troops on the ground.

With the right amount of support, any weapon is a god-send. But isolated, the mammoth tank probably wouldn't fair too well.

As for going back to traditional mechanized tactics, we can clearly read that most of the technology has gone into battlefield systems, rather than new units. The blog mentions numerous times things like fire control, therat rating and acquisiton et cetera, that you would not be able to see on the outside, but can clearly see when the vehicle is in battle.

[b](on the Mammoth Mark II)
[/b]
Supported properly, this thing is incredible. In game it wasn't too much of a thing due to the fact that a lot of balancing had to make it weaker.

In (fictional) reality, the mammoth mark II was a god send and a curse.

Here we have a great weapon platform, with localized anti-air systems, and heavy armor to boot. However a lot of it is wasted space. The entire frame was probably built around the railguns, which at the time would have taken incredible amounts of power to be used in the way that they were being used. That and the fact that the mammoth mark II was hindered by mobility, and was a huge target, gave it many weaknesses as well.

Another note is logistics. While the Mark II probably was self sufficent as far as fuel goes. Deploying the thing would be a pain, because of the fact that the thing was gigantic. Yes it can be carried by a carry-all in game, but that is in game, not in the (fictional) reality. In the (fictional) reality, the Mark II had two rail guns, in-game it only had one.

So GDI could clearly see the atractiveness of scaling down the railguns and mounting them on other platforms, as opposed to keeping the mammoth mark II in service.

[b](ON Nod)[/b]

Nod is clearly developing pro-canon. They have alot of economic freedom that the United Nations Global Defense Initiative does not, such as they are an independent organiztation that is outside the UN control, so they can dabble at things at their lesiure. Where as GDI is probably controlled by the United Nations, or what ever is left of it. That and the fact that they are dabbling in first strike weapons such as an Ion Cannon network, and space based weapons and observation systems.

The weapons being deployed are very Nod like. The Psychological, or Psych weapons being deployed by nod are very similar through out each game. such as the flame tank, optic camoflague, gurillea warfare et cetera.

[b](On tiberium)[/b]

This is where I find major fault with CNC3. The clear lack of continuity with tiberium is a major cause for concern. And I feel that EA should really think about what they are creating when they are messing with tiberium, the main focus of the entire series. I do hope that they hear the outcry by the community and shape up their portait of tiberium.


Thats my rant for the week.

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Clarkson
General


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh my god.

Marry me, please. You've said what Me, EVA251, Von, and others have been trying to say. I love you.

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Muldrake
Supreme Commander


Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you, Orca004ky, you've helped clear up some of my points too.

And for those who say I've given up too easily. I guess I have, but, I've wanted a sequel from TS since the beginning, I've wanted my advanced Hover MLRS's, and my towering Titans.. but.. it would appear that EA and Mike Verdu are really being stubborn on this point.
And the community from several places have thrown up a huge fuss about it, and they've not really budged.
I thinking its getting futile to try much more.

Fighting a battle is one thing. Fighting a battle to which you know you can't win.. (depending on the situation) is just stupidity. Its time to accept it, move on and try and concentrate on something else.

I am grateful that they've tried to explain their choices, or at least give reasons for it, even if quite possibly, the actual reason is they didn't like TS or its units.
If you saw those reasons before all this fuss about the lack of Mech and Hover, people would have accepted it a lot more easily, not it just looks like a cover up.

Right now, my only hope for more of what I've seen in TS, is mods. And right now, the things I want from CNC3 are; a brilliant engaging storyline, good playability, and good mod support.
If they don't want mechs or hover units, thats fine, just leave it open for modders to do it.
If they don't want the hassle of balancing subterrenean units, thats fine, again, just leave it open for modders to do it.

A lot of people have said, I'd rather not have a CNC3, than have EA do it. Well, its happening, we can't change that. I love Command and Conquer. I love the universe of it. And I'm going to do my best to try and make this game work, even if its through a mod. If EA kill it, it'll be up to us to bring it back to life.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with everything you just said and in matter of fact I actually gave up a little while ago... But when ryan came up with that idea to send that article to that magazine I thought it was worth a shot. Even though there's hardly a chanse this will get EA to make C&C3 into a true sequal to Tiberian Sun it does give me a little hope.

But yes, if EA won't change it it's up to mods to keep C&C going.

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Orca004ky
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Atlantis

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, hopefully the game is being made with some modding aspects in mind. We know that mechs and sub units will be possible via coding, so we don't have to fret over the lack of logic being there as well.

And besides, the game is young. No telling where it might actually end up at.

I think that their media campaign is telling a timeline between TS and TW, so we will probably see a drastic change in the unit list before everything is said and done.

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http://www.cnc-source.com/forums/index.php?showforum=27

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well thats my faith in CnC gone, EA have the power and money to ignore everything they want and BS people. Also Carno you keep saying things like WESTWOOD made RA2? Right ok that was with EA up thier arse and rushing them. You could have the best and most skilled people working on a project, but if they are rushed and they can't apply thier skills ( like in WW's situation ) then they should not be blamed for making something poor.

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Clarkson
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They still didnt apply their skills obviously considering how RA2 differed from the Storyline and ended up an OMG EVIL COMMIEZ WIT FUKKEN GIANT UNITZ 'GAINST KAPITALIZM!!!!1 type scenario. Westwood was clearly aiming for cliches for the Soviet side and making them lame and spooky(Just look at the Shock Trooper who became the Pimpscript.). But I guess this is the Tiberian series' RA2, no?

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Muldrake
Supreme Commander


Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RA2 was a different development team, it wasn't done by most of the guys who worked on TS.

But I'm tired of all this arguing, I'm getting tired of the same things being said over and over..

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, it appears carno is a little ignorant... I already told him RA2 isn't made by the same team twice Neutral

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