Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject:
C&C 4 story end and so on
Subject description: This thread have spoilers!
How many of there have finished the C&C 4 campaign both at GDI and Nod?
I have but, the end gave some more question then answer and so on.
What you think about the story and about the end of the game?(serie)
Btw, Kane is a alien because he survivable every bullet at the end and go home to the alien planet or wtf the portal do again. And ztype the bitch some shot you down at GDI end:( QUICK_EDIT
id'd like to see kane like after 100 years, the threshold tower suddenly spits him out bleeding and actually dying, dropping the tacitus on the ground. Then the aliens referenced on the intel database (not the scrin) coming out of the portal and start invading the earth :v QUICK_EDIT
I'd like to never see another Tiberium or Red Alert game made, and prefer that no more Generals-era games be made. CnC is dead after RA3 as far as I'm concerned. QUICK_EDIT
I'd like to never see another Tiberium or Red Alert game made, and prefer that no more Generals-era games be made. CnC is dead after RA3 as far as I'm concerned.
Care to expand on that? Hopefully you'll have some deep, well thought out reasoning behind that brash statement, as opposed to the 'HURR DURR ITZ TOO COLOURFULLZ AND UNSERIOUZ' claptrap that gets trotted out by creatively-challenged simpletons incapable of handling a colour palette with more than 3 shades of brown and grey. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I never played RA3, though since I prefer the tib universe, it doesn't matter anyway. _________________
Think of me as Nordos, 'cause Banshee wouldn't rename me QUICK_EDIT
I'd have rather that the developers had tried to develop gameplay away from the usual rush tactics in the post Gens era of C&C. At least they tried to in C&C4. QUICK_EDIT
The epic conclusion of Kane's story just leaves you with a bitter taste.
Just looks to me they wanted to get it over with.
The game itself i find its an ok game, playable but not excellent in any way.
And where are the Scrin? waiting for part 5?
As i recall they where building up troops to do a full scale invasion.
"Prepare a full invasion force, Earth will fall"
I can see it now, C&C 5 GDI vs Scrin, tiberium and Kane gone.
Scrin army entering our solar system; hey where is all the tiberium?! and this Kane? what the hell! DESTROY EARTH!!!
or doing it the EA way, Kane who? tiberium what? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere in rulesmd.ini
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:18 am Post subject:
Curiously i had a similar thought.
I think they will continue the story with an Alien vs Humanity plot, under a different title, no longer with the lines of 'Command and Conquer'
i really hope they don't. _________________
The epic conclusion of Kane's story just leaves you with a bitter taste.
Just looks to me they wanted to get it over with.
The game itself i find its an ok game, playable but not excellent in any way.
And where are the Scrin? waiting for part 5?
As i recall they where building up troops to do a full scale invasion.
"Prepare a full invasion force, Earth will fall"
I can see it now, C&C 5 GDI vs Scrin, tiberium and Kane gone.
Scrin army entering our solar system; hey where is all the tiberium?! and this Kane? what the hell! DESTROY EARTH!!!
or doing it the EA way, Kane who? tiberium what?
I think to, but if Kane is a Scrin leader. He go back, and start the invasion from scrin.
See the end end, they ask a dude Kane gone, he reply: Kane is not gone or something. QUICK_EDIT
The epic conclusion of Kane's story just leaves you with a bitter taste.
Just looks to me they wanted to get it over with.
The game itself i find its an ok game, playable but not excellent in any way.
And where are the Scrin? waiting for part 5?
As i recall they where building up troops to do a full scale invasion.
"Prepare a full invasion force, Earth will fall"
I can see it now, C&C 5 GDI vs Scrin, tiberium and Kane gone.
Scrin army entering our solar system; hey where is all the tiberium?! and this Kane? what the hell! DESTROY EARTH!!!
or doing it the EA way, Kane who? tiberium what?
I think to, but if Kane is a Scrin leader. He go back, and start the invasion from scrin.
See the end end, they ask a dude Kane gone, he reply: Kane is not gone or something.
_________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
I'll say, as someone who liked CnC4, the ending was crap. I'll admit it.
although, I do not like it when you in the old boys club just whole sale bash it with the mantra of "It's not CnC" but I do not wish to start a flame war. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I'll say, as someone who liked CnC4, the ending was crap. I'll admit it.
although, I do not like it when you in the old boys club just whole sale bash it with the mantra of "It's not CnC" but I do not wish to start a flame war.
Its not that bad... but its just so different that and theres not even a tutorial to help you get the hang of things.... And the whole EXP system or else your gimped with basic units. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
I hated C&C4 because it was plain shite. Not as a C&C but as any game. It was totally lacking in any quality content. There was so much promised that wasn't included in the final product that meant it was half a game. The gameplay was so simple that it should never have been sold for the £40 price tag of a AAA game (I didn't buy it for this however). I got majorly bored of it even during the beta. It simply feels like an unfinished prototype of a new kind of arena/arcade game, clearly designed to have extra content unlocked and bolted on to increase value, which was never actually provided.
Then on top of that the fact they sold it as C&C4 - THE END OF THE TIBERIUM SERIES was a god damned shame. You know if people have been playing C&C since '94 and are now seeing "the epic(ly shite) conclusion" plastered over a game box it better be damn good. They just wasted the one and only chance of ever continuing or finalising their primary C&C series - THE C&C series, I mean Command & Conquer is a Tiberium game. Literally that's it, it's gone. It's over. You will never see another conclusion. If the game had been presented as C&C Arena as had been originally planned I would be fine with it and simply ignore the game rather than despise it and allow it to utterly baffle me. If C&C was ever gonna be Free 2 Play then this was the game to do it with.
I mean they really didn't have to end it at all. There never had to be a conclusion, this is a series that could've gone anywhere. TD and TS just meandered through the future without ever presenting any feel of "progress" through a grander story arch. Instead the devs decided to pander to the whining idiotic community for a true ending and naturally failed because it would be impossible to meet.
All C&C needed was a dev team/production company with the balls to do it's own thing with the title. It could have stuck with the Tib/RA series if it had the genuine will power and imagination to propose it's own themes, imagery and gameplay. The future of C&C was infinite. It could have been any time in the future, in any situation. But instead they had to play safe for the most part, trying to satisfy the relentless horde of fans (who do not know how to direct the series). Even if C&C4s gameplay was supposedly different they still chickened out by plastering it as the finale, slapping on artificial story elements in an attempt to appease the masses. QUICK_EDIT
I'll say, as someone who liked CnC4, the ending was crap. I'll admit it.
although, I do not like it when you in the old boys club just whole sale bash it with the mantra of "It's not CnC" but I do not wish to start a flame war.
Its not that bad... but its just so different that and theres not even a tutorial to help you get the hang of things.... And the whole EXP system or else your gimped with basic units.
I thought the whole single player mode was tutorial, like most modern fighting games.
Fyi I HAET THIS IDEA THAT A SINGLE PLAYER IS SHAFTED FOR MULTIPLAYER, YOU HEAR ME SOUL CALIBUR V! _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Care to expand on that? Hopefully you'll have some deep, well thought out reasoning behind that brash statement, as opposed to the 'HURR DURR ITZ TOO COLOURFULLZ AND UNSERIOUZ' claptrap that gets trotted out by creatively-challenged simpletons incapable of handling a colour palette with more than 3 shades of brown and grey.
Instead of a game universe that parodies the real Cold War, it has become a game universe that parodies itself. QUICK_EDIT
Care to expand on that? Hopefully you'll have some deep, well thought out reasoning behind that brash statement, as opposed to the 'HURR DURR ITZ TOO COLOURFULLZ AND UNSERIOUZ' claptrap that gets trotted out by creatively-challenged simpletons incapable of handling a colour palette with more than 3 shades of brown and grey.
Instead of a game universe that parodies the real Cold War, it has become a game universe that parodies itself.
Although yes that was lost in RA3. As in RA2 some units at least had more of a subtle allusion to war conspiracies.
Conscription, Weather Control Devices, Psychic Warfare.
RA3 would still be on par with the graphics of RA2 though... look at the RA3 Mods out there with the proper lighting they can make it look as gritty as C&C3.
RA3's Graphics are essentially RA2 ported to 3D. Have you seen how bright the terrain and units are in RA2?
But at least you gotta like how they really gave each Units more personality in C&C4.... Paladin Gunship is some Honorable British Guy, Mastodon is a wannabe AT-AT Pilot, Widow sounds like some Femme Fetale. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
But at least you gotta like how they really gave each Units more personality in C&C4.... Paladin Gunship is some Honorable British Guy, Mastodon is a wannabe AT-AT Pilot, Widow sounds like some Femme Fetale.
However, they made so many units that you won't use most of them (Also they speak generic lines). I can only remember the Mastodon, scorpion tank, archangel (Because there is an voxel of it here on PPM) and obviously the Kodiak.
Although I must say that even with the different gameplay and stuff I liked playing the beta QUICK_EDIT
I thought the story of the game was about some Heavily Armed Military fighting some Fanatical Cult and the main premise just has poisonous resources. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
I thought the story of the game was about some Heavily Armed Military fighting some Fanatical Cult and the main premise just has poisonous resources.
You forgot the part of predicting the whole War on Terror like I dunno how many years before Bush got the war engine running.
And economic crashes.
And Western powers funding terrorist organisations through work-arounds.
And massive environmental destruction. QUICK_EDIT
The story progressed from RA1 to TS to FS and then it died. Mind that there's a lot more to the story than what was made official however, but there's already plenty of story from RA1 to FS.
According to claims in TD's story, Nod has been around since before Christ. Hints indicate that Kane might even really be the biblical Caïn who killed his brother Abel; especially an artifact seen in Renegade which depicts this event is an implication of this...
Kane manipulates the Soviet union to start a war with the intent to take control of Europe by taking over the Soviet union once they'd win the war
(info about Scrin rebels crashing to earth and Nod acquiring the Tacitus from the crash missing)
The Soviet union gets defeated and Nod "silently" comes out of hiding to initiate "plan B"
Nod builds Scrinship with help of data deciphered from Tacitus (Tratos couldn't have been around yet, so it could only have been CABAL who translated it, which is confirmed by the fact that CABAL was also present in Renegade. Was this CABAL AI also acquired from the Scrin rebel's crashed ship or are his origins different?)
Nod gets defeated and Kane disappears, presumed dead
Nod keeps growing in power, while while GDI assumes that their own men that infiltrated Nod are enough to keep them under control
Kane returns, reclaims control of Nod with the help of the Black Hand faction, lead by Anton Slavick and the traitors are executed
A second tiberium war starts
GDI discovers the Scrinship that Nod built and learns about the Tacitus from the mutants
GDI rescues the mutant who was being forced to decipher the Tacitus for Kane (Tratos)
Kane gets killed again McNeil takes the Tacitus from him
The Kodiak gets stuck by lightning while carrying the Tacitus and crashes. Meanwhile CABAL has taken posession of Kane's body stored him in a (regeneration?) vat located in a hidden facility.
GDI learns that before long earth's atmosphere will become 100% toxic unless they figure out a solution with help from the Tacitus' data
CABAL manipulates Nod to kill Tratos, who aside from CABAL himself was the only one capable of deciphering the Tacitus
GDI captures a CABAL so that they can use him to decipher the Tacitus
GDI learns from CABAL that the Tacitus is incomplete and he sends them to locate and retrieve the other pieces.
GDI completes the Tacitus and CABAL steals it, mobilizes his cyborg forces and GDI makes their escape.
GDI and Nod work together to defeat CABAL
GDI reacquires the Tacitus and because the Tacitus is in its complete form now, GDI is able to decipher it and thus prevent the earth's atmosphere from turning toxic
Although CABAL has been defeated, he still exists within a hidden facility along with Kane's still regenerating body...
I left out plenty there, but there's an obvious plot at work, with Kane and the Tacitus at the center. Although the Scrin hasn't made an appearance yet, their arrival is clearly foreshadowed and I presume that Kane's origins were going to become clear in one of the sequels to TS Firestorm (either in Tiberian Incursion or its sequel). You can also tell that the earth's environment changed from normal, tiberium infested to highly toxic from RA1 towards FS, although ingame the toxic environment wasn't as apparent as intended (I remember reading that even buildings were supposed to receive damage from the toxic air in TS).
In any case, it was obvious that C&C did have a fairly deep plot that headed in an obvious direction until the writers were replaced with EA's (and the new writers obviously didn't know much if anything at all about which direction the story was intended to go in, hence the quarter-assed ending and the lack of answers to any of the questions that were brought up in the original story. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
[*]Nod builds Scrinship with help of data deciphered from Tacitus (Tratos couldn't have been around yet, so it could only have been CABAL who translated it, which is confirmed by the fact that CABAL was also present in Renegade. Was this CABAL AI also acquired from the Scrin rebel's crashed ship or are his origins different?)
Actually, Tratos was the one who translated the Tacitus in the first place. He even admits this in TS. CABAL assisted him, hence it knows how to translate it in Firestorm. There could also be a deeper meaning behind the enigmatic visions Tratos experiences in TS, as he and Kane are the only ones who do so throughout the Tiberium storyline. How was he able to decipher the Tacitus in the first place? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
So maybe Tratos and Kane actually had similar origins...
Well, I don't know exactly how old Tratos is supposed to be in TS, but for it to be possible for the Scrinship to have been built by Kane at the end of the first tiberium war (which was stated to be the case during TS), the part of the Tacitus must've been deciphered before then. So the deciphering of the Tacitus must've started at least 40 years before the second tiberium war... which makes Tratos at least 60 years old I'd say, which is indeed plausible.
If that's indeed the case, I suppose it makes sense for CABAL to have picked up on Tratos' deciphering methods and thus learned how to do it himself. In that case CABAL couldn't have come from the crashed ship of the Scrin rebels (or he'd have known know how to decipher the Tacitus to begin with), which makes his origin unknown.
I just recalled that Adam Isgreen mentioned something about CABAL being some sort of replica of Kane's psyche though... So he could be some sort of digital copy of Kane's mind which was somehow built by Nod themselves I guess.
With that in mind, the last video of TS Firestorm where you hear CABAL and Kane simultaneously say "our directives must be reassessed" does make some sense... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
You know, there is a point when the outnumbered must retreat.
I mean I could try to convince that WW was not perfect, or that EA is not baby eating evil.
but this is one of those places where the flow is too strong to find common ground. though not as full of trolls as CnC Paradise on ModDB. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I'm not saying that WW was perfect, but story-wise EA's versions of C&C (including RA2) were just plain crap.
WW's main problem is that they worked slow and had a sloppy management, but at least their attitude was better than just asking "does this look cool?" and then then just putting something in the game even if it doesn't make sense. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I mean I could try to convince that EA is not baby eating evil.
but... but... but it is!!!
No, seriously, WW wasn't perfect, yet story wise, it was waaaaaaaay ahead of EA. Simple as that.
The TS AI may have been crappy. The balance far from being perfect. Yet again, it was fun to play and I played it quite a lot. Couldn't say the same about C&C3 or even 4 _________________
So, yeah, I've created a new acc. 'cause no one could remember Ordosherrscher - and I didn't like that name anyway. QUICK_EDIT
I'm not saying that WW was perfect, but story-wise EA's versions of C&C (including RA2) were just plain crap.
WW's main problem is that they worked slow and had a sloppy management, but at least their attitude was better than just asking "does this look cool?" and then then just putting something in the game even if it doesn't make sense.
Hard to believe when someone not a few post above proclaimed "Everything past TS is crap. Now I missed the glory of TS by being a Console player, so for most of my CnC fandom I had two games to reference, Red Alert on the PS1, and CnC3 on the 360. I later got RA3 on the 360! Yes Console players! So forgive me if I do not have miles of nostalgia goggles like much of this site. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject:
Red Alert 2 is the best C&C ever made. Including story. It had it's moments of fun while being serious. In a good way.
Never really liked TS, it was so... dark. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
i dont even consider TT as part of the story. EA completely ruined it.
oh and AFAIK the scrin were supposed to make an appearance in FS. they were going to have a unique building style. 1 MCV could only support a limited structures so in order to get the full tech, multiple bases would be needed.
but sadly, that was left out of the game. _________________ <----- Clickable QUICK_EDIT
In Firestorm? Nah, they were going to make a debut in Incursion (can't remember which version). Well, yeah, back when TS was just a concept, Scrin was supposed to appear. Several things changed, like the Scrin ship was an actual alien ship at first. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Hard to believe when someone not a few post above proclaimed "Everything past TS is crap. Now I missed the glory of TS by being a Console player, so for most of my CnC fandom I had two games to reference, Red Alert on the PS1, and CnC3 on the 360. I later got RA3 on the 360! Yes Console players! So forgive me if I do not have miles of nostalgia goggles like much of this site.
Yeah I first played TD and RA1 on PS1 and they still rock. IMO C&C3 was pretty fun, I really rather like it and KW had a very cool ending.
Actually the final act of KW should probably have been the start of C&C3 considering you rise up with an army of cyborgs but hey, they were nice almost self contained games. Just can't say the same for C&C4 as I stated in my very reasonable post above. QUICK_EDIT
No what I recall Scrin were not supposed to feature in FS but in the actual WW's C&C3 after along potential CABAL faction and frankly as far Tacitus goes, it is not Scrin knowledge but rather the marsian aliens that supposedly died trying resist Scrin and all hints do point out they were much like humans as a race making Kane potentially marsian. Admittedly this gets buffling since the ship in TS is named as Scrin ship and it was built with knowledge of Tacitus but we may assume its intentional misinformation given to Nod followers.
if Tacitus really had most knowledge of Scrin, then EA's C&C3 makes even less sense how Kane needed Scrin to build the towers and thus I rather buy into whole marsian plot instead but as said, its gotten messed up since EA took over. Then again you ask yourself..how the ztype does Tratos translate knowledge from an alien artifact!? and why did Kane need his help?
Some inside rumors hinted that Earth had more aliens hiding here than just Kane but who knows as WW had many paths to pick.
C&C4 should really be dropped as subject, it failed in everything, it ignored even the Scrin plot apart from lousy ending... ultimately C&C4 totally ruined everything while admittedly story wise it began with C&C3 to go downhill but that was atleast so-so manageable effort. QUICK_EDIT
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C&C 4 story end and so on
?
(Also they speak generic lines). I can only remember the Mastodon, scorpion tank, archangel (Because there is an voxel of it here on PPM) and obviously the Kodiak.
