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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gangster was wrong to use the Ares version he did, but he didn't use it with any malice in mind or any intention to undermine the project or those who have worked on it. It's obvious he isn't the type of member to try to cause harm intentionally, he's been around for several years and has been an all round good guy, he needs to be told the rules regarding Ares but sometimes manners and politeness are as effective as practically yelling. Telling people to STFU and having a higher sense of authority doesn't actually make you better. Don't allow something you wish to keep private publically accessable and say "most public are so dumb compared to us, they'll never find it". I don't think what Gangster has done is good in anyway shape or form, I just don't see the negative motive or intentions.


M7 wrote:
Leaks are leaks, I sure as hell remember getting banned for leaking a mod.


If that's what I think it is, then I don't remember that leak being out of ignorance or good intentions. Public weren't as stupid as I thought.
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion's argument falls flat because of his lack of respect towards others, and because, well, look at all the assumptions he makes.

People download leaked Ares > Complain that it's buggy > Complain that Ares' team is hypocritical for talking smack about NPatch > NPatch will gain popularity over Ares > Ares will become hated by everyone, as will the team.

You're assuming A LOT there. If you wanted to make your point, Graion, you should've been more calm and respectful towards us. That attitude isn't helping you. You don't get the right to be a jerk because you helped with Ares. Speeder helped and PD helped; Do you see them being such ungrateful jerks towards others? If your answers to ungrateful modders who whine about Ares and release leaked versions of it is the same attitude as them, you're not helping yourself or your reputation; You're driving yourself into the ground!

And if anything you should know, guys, is that the average modders are good people. It's the once-in-every-while inexperienced kid that shows up and rips assets from a mod that pisses everyone off. People in this community, who are not modders, will always end up stealing from all of us. (mainly you, because I never release much of anything to the public) It's what happens. TacticalTrance and that Michael guy are two good examples.

I can understand your differences and am open to argumentation, but insulting us like that, that's just plain disrespectful. If you feel disrespected, returning the manner is the worst thing you can do; Just tell us nicely and we'll say we're sorry. I'm with Banshee on this, you need to be calm and give us the instructions nicely and slowly. But no, in today's society, when someone does something wrong (even if it's a small thing), it's just so much easier to yell at them, insult them and make them feel like total idiots, rather than point out the mistake and tell them what they did wrong. If you don't have the time, then yes, it is essentially your fault. Gangster's excuses and reasons are as valid as yours. Just because they're not yours, doesn't make them invalid. Just read this: http://www.cracked.com/article_17142_5-ways-common-sense-lies-to-you-everyday.html

You're all making this a bigger deal than it is, and you should've simply asked Gangster to take it down nicely. You can't blame someone for messing with something they didn't even know exist in the first place. (Your method of choosing testers by having them find the SVN) It's not necessary your fault either. It's called circumstance.

Now stop disrespecting each other. I'm starting to get tired of this shit; I'm THIS close to leaving all of these C&C forums.

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m7
Commander


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now stop disrespecting each other. I'm starting to get tired of this shit; I'm THIS close to leaving all of these C&C forums.


Good, you're about as annoying as Anderwin and Pepzi combined. Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Alex06: If my memory doesn't betrays me, Gangster had access to the Testing Area 'til the recent wipeout, which means he should BE AWARE of the situation.... yeah, one of my posts regarding the testerlist posted on 2011-09-01 says he still had access.

Which makes your point void.

Also, if you didn't noticed, I tried to be calm. But the egoist reply I got made me furious. And then, you, who knows NOTHING about the Ares rules try to protect him, with assuming.

If my point is void, then why yours make sense?

FYI, I respect people. But my respect is derived from intelligence and understanding. What he did I can't consider it anything else besides insolent. He claimed he did tests... no reports. The feedback for positive tests was firstly said in January but got taken that serious in July. Which makes his tests void.

You know... if he would said that he had no issues with Ares, maybe my entire August wouldn't get flushed down on a toilet.

Then he claims he hosts Ares due to the complication of the SVN. You know, that made me wonder, how the hell did he even ended up as an Ares tester once.

@Banshee, yeah, brain is exist. But for me it seems the world gonna forget what's it for. I mean... PPM needed a how-to for Ares. Which is in the stand-alone readme, too.

If I look over the recent Ares newcomers... all are from nowhere. Myself included. Steel Mirage, YR Modder, assasing123... we knew what we're applying for. Yet we are/were nobody in the RA2 modding communities.

We acknowledge the fact that people don't have much time. Still... that shouldn't mean that they can't even say a word at disappearing, or so. A sole word is enough if it's working in general. But when even that misses, you can't really do anything.

But this is it, I won't care about it anymore. Be ignorant, be happy.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Also, if you didn't noticed, I tried to be calm. But the egoist reply I got made me furious. And then, you, who knows NOTHING about the Ares rules try to protect him, with assuming.


Egoistic? Re-read it. What was so egoistic about it?

Gangster wrote:
Mod was a place for testing every new Ares features for some time and i don't want roll everything back to 0.1.All Ares revisions can be downloaded freely by anyone from svn. Link for every new version always given as soon as new feature been coded. But I have found this all is a bit complicated for thouse who is not familiar with Ares at all. Link to official site was given but this mirror is actually there for better compatibility.

Anyway, if this is violates some legal rights, I am asking Ares team to do an exclusion, and allow me always host a version on which Mod was built. Otherwise i will remove this mirror immediately.



Graion Dilach wrote:
@Banshee, yeah, brain is exist. But for me it seems the world gonna forget what's it for. I mean... PPM needed a how-to for Ares. Which is in the stand-alone readme, too.

If I look over the recent Ares newcomers... all are from nowhere. Myself included. Steel Mirage, YR Modder, assasing123... we knew what we're applying for. Yet we are/were nobody in the RA2 modding communities.

We acknowledge the fact that people don't have much time. Still... that shouldn't mean that they can't even say a word at disappearing, or so. A sole word is enough if it's working in general. But when even that misses, you can't really do anything.

But this is it, I won't care about it anymore. Be ignorant, be happy.


Pessimism is not knowledge. It's pure pessimism.

You don't need to be ignorant to be happy. You need to value your achievements. If there are people joining the beta and helping with feedback, it's an achievement. You should value it instead of complaining at the others who doesn't give anything in return, because when you complain at them, you are valuing more those who doesn't help you than those who help you.

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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Unknown

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morpher wrote:
Gangster was wrong to use the Ares version he did, but he didn't use it with any malice in mind or any intention to undermine the project or those who have worked on it. It's obvious he isn't the type of member to try to cause harm intentionally, he's been around for several years and has been an all round good guy, he needs to be told the rules regarding Ares but sometimes manners and politeness are as effective as practically yelling. Telling people to STFU and having a higher sense of authority doesn't actually make you better. Don't allow something you wish to keep private publically accessable and say "most public are so dumb compared to us, they'll never find it". I don't think what Gangster has done is good in anyway shape or form, I just don't see the negative motive or intentions.


M7 wrote:
Leaks are leaks, I sure as hell remember getting banned for leaking a mod.


If that's what I think it is, then I don't remember that leak being out of ignorance or good intentions. Public weren't as stupid as I thought.


This. Gangster has been a great member of the community for a long time (longer than me) so he definitely deserves a lot more respect then he's been given in this thread.
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take your own words, Graion;
You were nobody until recently.

Gangster has been somebody for a long time. You don't just gain respect like that, instantly, just because you're working on some project you think is so important. You think that entitles you to respect in a community? That's for the community to decide, not you. And if you think the community is so annoying, then, well, why are you still around? Gangster deserves respect and has said nothing wrong until you started throwing insults at him and treating him like the last idiot on the planet, after which he returned the favor.

I am seriously sick of all these modders in this damn community acting like arrogant dicks who think they are entitled to everything. If it's justified, do something else to vent your anger. As for this topic, Gangster made an error, he said he'd gladly take the link down if asked nicely, which he did, despite your treatment of him, and now you're just starting throwing insults at him.

As for that "my points being valid, yours aren't" argument, I didn't mean it that way. I meant that you threw insults around and acted like a jerk when Gangster said he'd take down the link if asked nicely. You should've just told him nicely right there rather than simply start this shitstorm.

As for you, m7, sometimes, I don't know what's wrong with you or what we ever did to you. Sometimes you're perfectly ok, but there are certain times when you just act like an arrogant jerk. (You even gave me your excuses for having been harsh. Right now, that makes you look like a hypocrite in my eyes.) If people are interested in your mod, or they ask you a simple question, why do you have to treat them like crap in return? I don't understand, why are you posting info and asking for feedback if you're just flipping us the bird in return? Why are you still here?

P.S. I'm atheist, so I don't know what you mean with that "good lord" crap.

EDIT: I'm glad Banshee has more patience to remain calm and act like a reasonable person. That's real good of you, Bansh. I applaud you for it, no sarcasm intended. Wink

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all it do like to say sorry to Ares team for incedent with rehosting Beta. Never meant to hurt the project or team members with any way.

According to Renegade newspost at Ares website, I can distribute beta files with my mod if put a noticeble disclaimer which will remove any responsobility from Ares team for any possible consequences. Such disclaimer will be given.

Also i going to recompile Rewire for Lauch Base for Ares 0.1 with some features been cut.

So here is the plan: it will be up to people to deside what to use and how.
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Scorched Earth
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a simple "Hey, can you fix this please" would have sufficed, rather than "SGJVBSDOGSBCST" I'm seeing from everybody.

Rolling Eyes

Anyway, I'll be downloading this. I said it before, I'll say it again. It looks amazing.
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renegade wrote:
If we could trust everyone in the community to understand the difference between "stable" and "not stable", it wouldn't be a big deal. But you know as well as I do that 85% of players would selectively read "Ares [...] new version [...] new features" and then start yelling once the game crashes.

Quite frankly, there are just too many stupid people to openly embrace the testing builds.

I understand where you're coming from, but rather than hiding not-stable builds, how about making the fact they're not stable as obvious as possible?
  • You could put a disclaimer in bold red letters.
  • Mention the fact a crash occurred is likely because the user is running a not-stable build in the internal error message itself and point them to where they can get the most recent stable build. You can also explain how to report a bug in this same IE message.
  • Indicate whether it's a stable or not-stable build in random places that people likely will see (like the ingame menu, the readme, the filename, etc.).

Surely this would be enough to avoid bad publicity and since it'd also increase the number of testers, this would likely only prove to be beneficial in the long run.
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Renegade
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 21 May 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gangster wrote:
First of all it do like to say sorry to Ares team for incedent with rehosting Beta. Never meant to hurt the project or team members with any way.

Please make a difference between one team member and the team as a whole. Graion has the right to speak on his own capacity as much as anyone else on the team does.

Gangster wrote:
According to Renegade newspost at Ares website, I can distribute beta files with my mod if put a noticeble disclaimer which will remove any responsobility from Ares team for any possible consequences. Such disclaimer will be given.

Just adhere to the license and warn people about the testing version, and we're cool.


@Bittah Commander: These people are actively and consciously downloading Ares versions which are not the officially released stable versions, and the version data is shown on the launch screen.
One would think at some point they'd notice they're not in Kansas anymore.

As for your warning suggestions, there's the question of how much work that is worth. You are under the assumption that anyone encountering errors in testing versions would report them back. That is not my experience, quite the opposite. The large majority of people either shrug and ignore issues, or get fed up and leave. Reporters are a minority in any case. Doing all these changes to protect us from the wrath of the non-reporters, just to get a tiny rise in reporters, just ain't worth it.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renegade wrote:
Please make a difference between one team member and the team as a whole. Graion has the right to speak on his own capacity as much as anyone else on the team does.

[...]

Just adhere to the license and warn people about the testing version, and we're cool.


This. And not everything written in behalf of the Ares team is my personal opinion. It may be, it might not. But one thing: I coded features to be used, not to be put in a museum some day. Have fun!

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Gangster
Commander


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New build 0.0.5(stand-alone) is now available for DL. Check link at fist post.


    Alpha 0.0.5 changes:

    Fixes:
    Fixed floating bug with missing Warhead for Elite Weapon for Light Infanty
    Aircrafts do not spawn a crew after been destroyed.
    Fixed GDI AI Base defences. Restored missing graphics and fixed SAM Site land targeting.
    Fixed bug Mutant Hijacker not able to steal anything
    Fixed bug with Tiberian Fiend. Will not freeze trying to prone anymore.
    Fixed animations for Refineries
    Added graphics for Nod Service Depot.
    Added new grapics for Laser Fence
    Added new Civilian Buildings.
    Added new graphics for deployed Tick Tank.
    Added new graphics for Shores (not full yet)
    Added some new Water Cliffs (set is now complete)
    Fixed Artillery Turret
    Enchanced Kane Broadcast screen
    Fixed wrong paletted animations.
    Added new makeup animation for GDI Power Plant done by Sypher88. (Thanks, mate!)
    And many other small fixes.

    Balancing:
    Stealth Tank is little faster. Fires further.
    Repair Vehicle is now have Nod Depot in Prerequisites
    Nod MCV is now have Nod Depot in Prerequisites
    GDI Power Plant upgrages now give little more power.
    Redused time EMP Effect
    Tiberian Fiend weapon nerfed.
    Visceroid moves slower


PS version for LB will be avalible soon.
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Volgin
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the ztype just happened here?
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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
What the ztype just happened here?

Sums it up pretty much what I thought.
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volgin wrote:
What the ztype just happened here?
0.0.5 was released.
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Lee
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Location: Nottingham, England

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My input for the whole Area argument.

Graion, you've asked, even begged in the MO Beta Forum for people to test Ares else it will die. This is the perfect chance to test it.

I stand by my original comment. If Ares is worried about not having enough private testers to support the project, then let the public do the work. Someone will find great interest in help out and let's be honest, unfortunately the YR modding community it a lot less in population in recent years.

My 2 Direct Debit monthly installations.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://forums.renegadeprojects.com/showthread.php?tid=1992

http://forums.renegadeprojects.com/showthread.php?tid=2005
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Volgin
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IM SO ztyping LOST can this shit be split from the Alpha thread? This is meant for discussing the alpha itself not Gangster ztyping up with release of Ares (which was ztyping stupid, I'm not defending that).
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Alex06
Commander


Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:
Volgin wrote:
What the ztype just happened here?
0.0.5 was released.

Yup, pretty much. Very Happy

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