Then, we can replace Voxels with Sprites.
I mean, seriously, I think that would reduce the amount of work necessary by A LOT. Afterall, this is something we can easily achieve, raminator told his method: VXLSE export to obj->3dsmax render-> conversion.
Thus we can also discuss about the possibility of borrowing diverse ideas from OpenRA, or even making a different version (OpenYR?).
It's the most realistic option after what I see here being discussed.
Indeed, .yaml format is more annoying than .ini.
Indeed, the community doesn't have too many 3d modellers/SHPers.
Indeed, we might not even even have the proper "community" so to speak to carry on the engine with mods for it. (as in "not ready for such a transition" not "shitty community that can't do shit".)
But neither did RA community.
But then it's what AlexB decides. After all, we can even go for OpenRA. Hell, TS wouldn't be THAT hard to port, neither would YR after that. QUICK_EDIT
Omitting voxels is like removing the sheets of music from the piano before someone has to move it downstairs.
Roughly, RA has half the number of function TS has, which has half the number of functions YR has. Recreating YR with the same constant speed OpenRA moves forward and with the same team size, it could be 20 years.
And then, one has an old game with old technology. There are many new toys that can be used nowadays, like multi cores, or even 16bit colors... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
..but copying OpenRA codes would reduce it by 15 years, right?
Quote:
16bit colors
Well, some of us (*ahem*, me) would consider it really nice(heck, I'd just copy-paste the rendered images from my folder to my mod's folder), but OpenRA team also mentioned that they wouldn't put .png 16 bit images due to the hell of a work it would mean. (at least this is what I understood.).
Okay, suppose we change .tmp and .vxl/.hva with .png.
Suppose we change the current strict limitations for .wav files with a more accesible format.
Suppose we even change SHPs with .png files...
And by this I mean literally EVERY SHP from buildings and infantry to UI.
...wouldn't it still be a hell of work?
I really don't have a big knowledge of creating such a game, but I understand it would be a hell of a task. So what I'm curious to know is "is there any chance for a proper new engine"?
Even in a beta stage similar to OpenRA? QUICK_EDIT
One person, it would take forever, a group of people, perhaps 4 to 8 years. Large team employed to do it. perhaps 3 years.
Give or take. The time does not come from the engine core like the LCW, SHA and BlowfishEngines, or the FileClasses, but more the fact of the games logics. TS has way over 9,000 functions of code just for game logic.
Someone would need to finance such a project too. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject:
Vladimir.... sometimes I wonder how do you think.... most of the posts of yours I see totally makes no sense.... maybe just irrationally naive... _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Your condescending and elitist attitude is a by gone legacy of the Cannis era and makes a somewhat niche community even more unfriendly.
I gave up half way reading your drivel when you said releasing and testing did not work when in fact it pretty much did because the patch developers were in control.
They did what they wanted to do and we basically accepted it. They saw what people wanted and implemented a feature.It was dirty coding releases bugged as hell but people would response.
If VK hadn't left and tbh he didn't owe anyone anything I think people would still be happily using np wtf edition because progress would be made quickly and to a large audience.
In summary Ares had worse attitude to modders reinforced by your attitude renegade and a niche community platform (its like using IE 6)
The current method was not user friendly it was bloated and impossible to track properly _________________ QUICK_EDIT
,,So Ares is nearly dead" - That was subject of this thread! And look, here are already 4 pages, and yesterday few of us was testing and reporting codes whole day, and AlexB released fixed branch, before official one.... So basically, Ares is not nearly dead. Maybe sick, but not died or status before death for sure, we all are alive proof! We proved that since beginning of thread. _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
Why C#? hardly anyone knows that language do they? I hope it can be automatically converted to C++. Anyway I had a look of some video of OpenRA and it seems to me that whoever coded that can code an engine for TS and RA2. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject:
C# is a very easy language, but at the same time, very boring: no pointers . Booh! Ugly!
In a serious note, adapting OpenRA for TS and RA2 would require some serious workaround oriented programing steps because of that engine is really focused on 2D assets.
Anyway, I prefer my approach of converting voxels into modern 3D models. Of course, I still have a lot of work to do. I'm already able to extract proper meshes, although I've tracked few bugs with that recently which I've already fixed.
My next step is a proper way to build textures, which I may work on after I'm done with my master dissertation (which I should defend by the end of this month). Last edited by Banshee on Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Why C#? hardly anyone knows that language do they? I hope it can be automatically converted to C++. Anyway I had a look of some video of OpenRA and it seems to me that whoever coded that can code an engine for TS and RA2.
C# is quite similar to Java, and easier than C/C++. Shouldn't be hard for anyone who knows C/C++ to learn C#, and it's more accessible for potential new programmers. Also, it's a pretty popular language as well; probably not as widely used as Java (and far from the popularity of C/C++), but it's not that unused that I'd say "hardly anyone knows it". _________________ CnCNet Client | CnCNet TS patches | More Quality-of-Life Improvements for RA Remastered
Everyone wants to have fun, but lengthy debugging and bugfixing isn't. Really, it isn't. The more people find bugs, the less fun Ares is for me (simplified). Actually, not having any testers would allow me to code more crappy features faster, which would be more fun. And if I have fun, you get IEs.
That's why I have fun; SHiFT, Zeus, current hacks. Whatever I did was for the enjoyment of it, and that was about all. My methods have been similar to pd's methods in RP, and I'm fine with it.
I admire all the work put into Ares by all of you, but was it ever fun to do? If so, do what you were doing then. If not, it's not worth your time. Either you change or Ares does, and Ares has changed a lot. I can see why DC was fed up with it, same with you Ren.
My advice to you, Alex, (if there is any to take away from what I write or have written) is to do what you want. People spewed features at me when I released stuff or showed something. It was great only because it gave me ideas of what I could do. I wasn't assigning myself or committing myself to any suggestion. In the end, I enjoyed it. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Then lets make a ROS mod for OpenRA and just do fake isometry like in Starcraft.
i love to, but if some one code it for me [ since code thing is's not my expert].
but however since this topic is about Ares i'm try to not mention about my mod or what i want to do. if anyone interesting please go to talk in my project forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:43 am Post subject:
^Rampastein wrote:
ViPr wrote:
Why C#? hardly anyone knows that language do they? I hope it can be automatically converted to C++. Anyway I had a look of some video of OpenRA and it seems to me that whoever coded that can code an engine for TS and RA2.
C# is quite similar to Java, and easier than C/C++. Shouldn't be hard for anyone who knows C/C++ to learn C#, and it's more accessible for potential new programmers. Also, it's a pretty popular language as well; probably not as widely used as Java (and far from the popularity of C/C++), but it's not that unused that I'd say "hardly anyone knows it".
The uni teaches us C# on Computer Sciences and Engineering majorly. But that's due to an active contract with MS, which will likely end within years... and it's highly suspected that after that, C++ favoring will come back.
Where C# is better than C++ is memory management. But C++ is better at speed. Also if I'd aim for portability, I'd steer away from Mono. I respect what they do, but I just have to consider it a fact that it's not 100% sure that their package is as good as .NET. And this runtimecompliation of C#'s just slows down the game. And have to say I never could get OpenRA running... on an environment which ran VS2010 perfectly fine.
C# is actually quite popular due to Microsoft's harsh business politics. On the other hand, the inbuilt functions of it usually just lazien the programmer, since actually he has no reasons to think up complex stuff, because most of those are already built in. Where are the joys of writing an own library functions in C(++) for later use? QUICK_EDIT
True. For something like OpenRA I don't think it should be an issue though; a graphically simplistic 2d game is easily able to run fast enough even if it has been written with C#.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Also if I'd aim for portability, I'd steer away from Mono. I respect what they do, but I just have to consider it a fact that it's not 100% sure that their package is as good as .NET.
I haven't tried using Mono yet (because nearly everyone's running Windows -> no need for Mono), so I don't have any own experience about it. From what I've read, it often isn't as good as .NET although most programs shouldn't be very hard to port for it.
Graion Dilach wrote:
And have to say I never could get OpenRA running... on an environment which ran VS2010 perfectly fine.
For me OpenRA has always been download, install, launch the main executable (OpenRA.Game.exe or something) and it has worked. That is, the two times I've given it a chance.
Graion Dilach wrote:
On the other hand, the inbuilt functions of it usually just lazien the programmer
By the way, there is a company that claims it has made softwares that are able to convert source codes of certain programming languages to other languages. I have no idea how good they are though.
By the way, there is a company that claims it has made softwares that are able to convert source codes of certain programming languages to other languages. I have no idea how good they are though.
The idea is silly in so many ways...
But for .Net languages, it should be easy to do. VB.net, C# and C++.net are basically the same thing, only the syntax is different. Well, and C++ has the benefit/drawback that are pointers...
ViPr wrote:
By the way does anyone have a good idea of how much slower C# or Java programs run compared to C++ programs?
Ten years ago, Java was slow as ztype. Today, that's only a rumor and the bad image from the past. A Java application is not inherently slower than one written in assembly anymore, because of the way the JVM compiles Java bytecode to the architecture specific bytecode (assembly). Of course, there's a little overhead, but it's not noteworthy on modern hardware.
All of that goes for the .Net framework as well, but my guess is that .Net is generally faster on Windows because it probably uses Microsoft magic. I don't think the difference between JVM and .Net is that much, however. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject:
CCHyper wrote:
I think GD meant that he could not get OpenRA to compile?
No I couldn't run it. I wtfd and forgot it soon afterwards. It thrown me .NET issues while I had the correct .NETs... I had all ones at that time. QUICK_EDIT
Vladimir.... sometimes I wonder how do you think.... most of the posts of yours I see totally makes no sense.... maybe just irrationally naive...
If you are referring to my lack of programming/rebuilding engines knowledge then of course they make no sense. For the others, perhaps it may be your English and not my posts. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Actually, my personal plans do involve a lot of money and some of the players will have to pay also or else just watch advertisements like what is done with many free-to-play games. QUICK_EDIT
I would pay for hi-def TS\YR replica. But i don't like compromises. For me usage of flat-terrain, fake-isometric product will be questionable. _________________ Gangster is a Project Perfect Wuj (c)Aro QUICK_EDIT
Gangster, I'm not sure what you want. Do you want a parallel projection view or perspective projection view? The former is pre-polygon and latter is post-polygon. I want to use perspective projection because my plan involves enabling first person view but there is something quite interesting to me about parallel projection because it enables optimizations that significantly reduce processor power requirements, but I wonder if there is much point to that nowadays anyway. I mean, using much less processing power, does it allow the processor to use much less electricity and generate much less heat so the fan can be less noisy, or can it enable computers to run other processor intensive programs at the same time as you are playing so as to not waste the spare processing power? I suppose tablets and smartphones might benefit because they have less processing power and they really need to save battery power but people cannot really play multiplayer games on mobile devices because people usually have a tendency to leave the game prematurely because they usually play on those devices whenever they are waiting for something else. QUICK_EDIT
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. Booh! Ugly! 
