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Advanced Stealth Soldier System
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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject:  Advanced Stealth Soldier System
Subject description: Tutorial for RA2/YR, very easy
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Hello guys, Very Happy

As you followed this tutorial of mine Advanced Stealth Tank System now it is turn to show you how will you get Stealth Trooper which can be done in similiar way as Stealth Tank with similiar result. Main goal is to make infantry not auto targeting enemies in the map or in their base, revealing themselves unnecessary, but waiting your order to do so instead.
So, here are codes:
YOU MUST USE INFANTRY SHPS WITH DEPLOY SEQUENCES !!!
Lets use Desolator for example because he already has it.

; Stealth Trooper
[DESO2]
Image=DESO
UIName=NOSTR:Stealth Trooper
Name=Stealth Trooper
Category=Soldier
Primary=StealthGun2
Secondary=StealthScanner2
Assaulter=no ; I clear out UC buildings
Prerequisite=YABRCK,NAPSIS
CrushSound=InfantrySquish
Crushable=no
Strength=150
Armor=Plate
TechLevel=5
Pip=white
Sight=6
Speed=4
Owner=YuriCountry
Cost=600
Soylent=250
Points=5
IsSelectableCombatant=yes
VoiceSelect=SlySelect
VoiceMove=SlyMove
VoiceAttack=SlyAttackCommand
VoiceFeedback=SlyFear
VoiceSpecialAttack=SlyMove
DieSound=SlyDie
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize=1
MovementZone=Infantry
;MovementZone=InfantryDestroyer ;GEF wow!!! copy paste bug from the original Disk Thrower!
ThreatPosed=20 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF,SIGHT,FASTER
EliteAbilities=SELF_HEAL,STRONGER,FIREPOWER,ROF
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Size=1
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
IFVMode=12
ImmuneToRadiation=yes
ImmuneToPoison=yes
Parasiteable=no
Cloakable=yes
CloakingSpeed=1
RadarInvisible=yes
Sensors=yes
Deployer=yes
DeployFire=yes
DeployFireWeapon=1
;DeployTime=15
Parasiteable=no
;IsDesolator=yes
Crushable=no

[StealthScanner2]; This is so units with range one weapons will scan out farther when looking for targets in guard
Damage=1
Range=0.1
NeverUse=yes
Projectile=InvisibleAll
Warhead=ScannerWH
Speed=1
FireOnce=no
RevealOnFire=no
AreaFire=yes


[StealthGun2]
Damage=40
ROF=50
Range=5
Projectile=InvisibleLow
Speed=100
Warhead=StealthWH
Report=RocketeerAttack
Bright=yes
Anim=UCINIT
RevealOnFire=no ; Doesn't clear shroud when fired

[StealthWH] // Supposed to be a heat ray.
Verses=100%,100%,100%,75%,50%,50%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%
AnimList=CHRONOFS ; temp, should have flash-o-light
InfDeath=3 ; Burn death
Bright=true ; This says there should be Combat Lighting.  It's ignored, but we'll say it anyway.
CLDisableRed=true ; This says the Combat Light should be red.  (1)
CLDisableGreen=true ; This says the Combat Light should be red.  (2)

[ScannerWH]
Verses=0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%,0%


So, here is how it looks like:



First screenshot: Desolators are deployed stealthed in the middle of his base, waiting silently.
Second screenshot: Desolators are undeployed and will attack anything that comes in their weapons range.
Deploying/Undeploying process is immediate with double click or deploy shortcut or press D.
Same as with stealth tanks, deployed Desolators wont fight back if enemy discovers them with sensors, you have either to unload them by double click and order to scape or leave them fight, its up to you.
Now you can combine stealth tanks and stealth soldiers for ambush tactics!


Key Words: #Tutorials #Modding #RedAlert2 #YurisRevenge #Ares #Rules.INI 

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

NoAutoFire=yes Wink

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you for posting here Lin Kuei Ominae!
I do not think we have that tag in RA2/YR. When I pres CTRL+F in my rulesmd it doesnot show this tag. However we have this
CanPassiveAquire=no ; Won't try to pick up own targets
But its not what I meant by making this tutorial.
If unit cannot passive acquire then you have manually always to select it to attack. This means if you have five tanks and one got attacked, just that one will fight back other 4 will just stay and do nothing unless you manually order them to attack. That means that for each target you will have to manually order them to attack. Can you imagine what is happening in the middle of game with such units? How much loses would you have?
My method with stealth tanks and this one with stealth soldiers give you ability to chose either of completely disabling units, passive ambush or put them in active ambush so they will attack anything that appears near. NoAutoFire=yes and CanPassiveAquire=no are just useless in this case.

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ahh so you could use a mirage tank as

1. Standard Mirage tank, shoots whatever enemy comes close to it
&
2. Put it in sleep mode so that it sits there hiding as reconnaissance?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MasterHaosis wrote:
Thank you for posting here Lin Kuei Ominae!
I do not think we have that tag in RA2/YR. When I pres CTRL+F in my rulesmd it doesnot show this tag. However we have this

always search in gamemd, because this is the place where really every key is listed.
However it seems NoAutoFire really was replaced by CanPassiveAquire.


Anyway, CanPassaiveAquire=yes should work fine too imo. Just press g for area guard, when you want them to auto attack enemies. Else simply let them stand in normal guard mode.

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I could find that NoAutoFire tag in the executable but I didn't took a look to see if it does anything at all.

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Cranium
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

NoAutoFire gets parsed, but looking at the code it looks like its been disconnected.

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So what's the difference between

NoAutoFire=
&
CanPassiveAquire=

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CanPassiveAquire

Makes the unit automatically attack a unit if its within their weapons range.


Before someone else asks...


OpportunityFire

Allows the Unit if it has a Turret/Omnifire to fire on the move as long as their weapon is still in the range of the enemy...

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
always search in gamemd, because this is the place where really every key is listed.

I do not know how to search in gamemd.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Anyway, CanPassaiveAquire=yes should work fine too imo. Just press g for area guard, when you want them to auto attack enemies. Else simply let them stand in normal guard mode.


No, you are wrong, I testted that now again, and its not working. That is why I made tutorial for stealth tanks at first place. If that works I would not make tutorial, and now this one for infantry.

You see, stealth tanks were in guard mode and did not automatically target for enemies.
Seems that those are tow different tags. NoAutoFire=yes in TS perhaps just means that unit wont auto target. But CanPassiveAquire=yes in RA2 means not just that it wont auto target, but that it will ignore guard mode.

And its not ,,CanPassaiveAquire=yes" as you said. Yes is default to all units, you have to select no. Your tag starts with No, thats why you have to put yes. (NoAutoFire=yes = CanPassiveAquire=no)

Lin Kuei Ominae, Can you check if that works in TS? Put on stealth tank NoAutoFire=yes and set him up in guard mode and see if he is going to attack enemies automatically then.

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
OpportunityFire

Allows the Unit if it has a Turret/Omnifire to fire on the move as long as their weapon is still in the range of the enemy...

No one mentioned this tag

It seems weird that WW would remove NoAutoFire= only to replace it with
CanPassiveAquire=
Which is an identical tag only reversed!?

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SMIFFGIG, o hello man, sorry for late reply.
Well seems that only one difference is that Canpassiveaquire=yes also make unit ignore guard mode.
Westwood did many retarded things, some unused codes or such. The perfect example is BurstDelayX which is removed from weapon to vehicle type only in RA2, and you can control only 5 bursts! What a stupidity!

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not a removal. Why people thinks that?

FS and RA2 are two separate branches of TS. With only BurstDelay implemented in both... since they were separate branches running on their own, ofcourse they ended up different.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graion Dilach, what about those two tags NoAutoFire and CanpassiveAquire?

Can you check in exe or somewhere in CanPassiveAquire=yes indeed ignores guard mode or whatever?

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mevitar
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CanPassiveAquire=yes works fine. You had to add something else that made it appear that it doesn't.

In case you don't believe, CanPassiveAquire defaults to yes, so all units that don't have this tag have it set to yes. I'm pretty sure other units in your mod that do respect guard mode don't have CanPassiveAquire set, which means they use the default value. #Tongue

Also, how far the units scan for targets is determined by their GuardRane= value, which defaults to the highest Range= value of their weapons (that's why dogs have VirtualScanner, but they could be simply given GuardRange=5, without the need for a secondary weapon).

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MasterHaosis wrote:
Lin Kuei Ominae, Can you check if that works in TS? Put on stealth tank NoAutoFire=yes and set him up in guard mode and see if he is going to attack enemies automatically then.

Stealth tanks ignore enemies by default. When set to area guard mode, they start to attack automatically. So they do already by default what you do with the workarounds.

Don't know if NoAutoFire changes anything in this behaviour.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Stealth tanks ignore enemies by default. When set to area guard mode, they start to attack automatically. So they do already by default what you do with the workarounds.

But they do not ignore enemies by default in RA2 because RA2/YR is not supposed to have stealth tanks. stealth logic is used on submarines remember? Submarines do automatically attack enemies, logically.
Also, I remember in Mental Omega easlier, steal tanks also automatically could attack enemies. Also in my mods they automatically attack enemies, so I supposed that they removed that in RA2 because of submarines.
Thats why my workaround exists! And its even better because of unloading class image so you would exactly know which tank is disabled and wont automatically engage enemies.
Otherwise we have to put others about that behavior.

Starrku, Speeder, guys are stealth tanks in your mods automatically attack enemies just like normal tanks or they do not do that with cloakable by default?

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MRMIdAS
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The only problem with this is that its initials are "A.S.S.S."

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And your sacrificing a second weapon...

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am definite certain that in RA2 stealth units doesn't ignore enemies.

I doubt I'll have time investigating NoAutoFire before Thursday but considering that I can't remember any use of that tag, I doubt it would work (it would be too obvious to not be used after all).

Tho if I think about Ares, a weapon with Versus.allArmortype.CanPassiveAcquire=no might work better... in that case you can have the passive mode, but it won't be a total sacrificing of the weapon.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
And your sacrificing a second weapon...

And? Why do you need second weapon for stealth tank anyway? Dont tell me red laser anti infantry, blue laser anti armor.

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mevitar
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not like every stealth tank uses only one weapon. Some might give it AG rockets and AA missiles, for example. #Tongue

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mevitar, thank you very much for posting here. I am taking suggestions but few you most likely forgot that you can do AG AA weapon with primary weapon, no need two.
For example, you will use primary anti ground laser range 6, secondary anti air laser range 10. Logically.
But if you need to use secondary weapon for special case, you can use primary weapon range 6, and add tag in unit type AirRangeBonus=4, so whenever it shoots at air, it will have 10 range cells. Of course, primary weapon should have invisibleALL or whatever projectile which shots at air.
IFV already uses that tag.
So, I do not think that my method messes with AntiAir capabilities.

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graion Dilach wrote:
Tho if I think about Ares, a weapon with Versus.allArmortype.CanPassiveAcquire=no might work better... in that case you can have the passive mode, but it won't be a total sacrificing of the weapon.


Razz

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Speeder
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm posting here just so you can thank me for doing so.

Seriously though, I'm testing this for Shadow Tank I have atm. It uses only one weapon so there's no problem and I definitely don't want to use CanPassiveAquire=no or Ares' special tags for certain armors on it because I want it to ambush enemy forces if neccessary. However, sometimes it should just stay quiet.

There are some problems when it comes to controlling multiple numbers of such units, ex. only few of them deploy and then the group has to be completely deployed to undeploy blabla, but this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graion Dilach, sorry, I really was about to reply on you later, because I did not check it all. I suppose that it works, but I was first about to answer him and Atomic Noodles because they seems to have wrong conviction that you cant have AG/AA abilities with my method.
However guys, I also did not check this too, I just know that there is AirRangeBonus= tag and I am sure that it works, because I am using it on Apocalypse mammothTusk missiles (Apocalypse can shot at infantry with missiles at 6 range and can fire at air at 10 range cells).
I am even going to check this right now with stealth tank and tell you if it really works, or I am wrong.

Graion Dilach, well if that works, I will check this later too. However, its with Ares only , no stock RA2/YR, I explained for stock one. However, is there tag Versus.allArmortype.CanPassiveAcquire=no or this is just global, so I should put all 9 tags separately Versus.light.CanPassiveAcquire=no Versus.medium.CanPassiveAcquire=no ... etc?

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All 9 tags. Ofcourse, your method is much more univrsal but in case of 2 weapons, this could be a better wokaround.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graion Dilach, guys, I was right! it is working actually
see this


First screenshot - Stealth tank fires at lasher tank with its ground range.

Second screenshot - Stealth Tank fires at Disc from obvious longer range. It uses AirRangeBonus at primary weapon.
So yes, you are not loosing AA capabilities because you do not need secondary weapon for AA purposes here definitively.

However, there is one small weird behavior regarding this, that I will have to create another thread for, for curiosity.

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mevitar
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MasterHaosis wrote:
mevitar, thank you very much for posting here. I am taking suggestions but few you most likely forgot that you can do AG AA weapon with primary weapon, no need two.

But you do, if AG rockets are supposed to be arcing inaccurate rockets, and AA missiles are supposed to follow the target and hit it accurately. Those can't really be done with only one weapon, and it's just one example.

I never said it is a bad method, but not everybody uses a stealth tank design that has only one weapon. Wink For them, using the 2nd slot for a "don't shoot" mode will mean they have to sacrifice some the unit's functions.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well in that way, then indeed you need to sacrifice weapon. Logically you cannot have two different weapon plus this trick.
You can't have say one machine gun, one cannon, one flame thrower one laser, or indeed your example, one accurate rocket, one inaccurate. You cant have anything which requires both Primary and Secondary slots. Logically, I was aware of that.
But I was explaining to people that they do not need two slots for same type weapon, except secondary is supposed to be AA and bigger range. Its just that this small bug appears http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33727 well, I do not think that we can affect in it, its more westwood bug.

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Walking into Ares territory you could also make them similar to GI/GGI's who deploy to use a Secondary Weapon.

Then use Custom Armortypes to give him Can.PassiveAcquire=No On all the ArmorTypes you want them to not attack automatically on a New Warhead & Weapon.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Atomic_Noodles, yes, that works perhaps, we also talked regarding this last night as option too in case that you need two weapons for stealth tank.

Speeder wrote:
I'm posting here just so you can thank me for doing so.

Well thank you! I am glad that you are posting here and that you find something of mine useful. Smile

Speeder wrote:
Seriously though, I'm testing this for Shadow Tank I have atm. It uses only one weapon so there's no problem and I definitely don't want to use CanPassiveAquire=no or Ares' special tags for certain armors on it because I want it to ambush enemy forces if neccessary. However, sometimes it should just stay quiet.

Yes, that was its purpose.

Speeder wrote:
There are some problems when it comes to controlling multiple numbers of such units, ex. only few of them deploy and then the group has to be completely deployed to undeploy blabla, but this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Ah yes, I am aware of that. its perhaps due to westwood how did deployer or is simpledeployer. That appears with GIs in RA2, GGI's and Siege choppers in YR. If you have 10 units, 6 of them are already deployed, but you have select whole group. When you click on deploy, just 4 of them will deploy, then if you click it again, whole group will be undeployed. Its not ,,happening per click", so 4 would deploy, 6 would undeploy. Its just that advantage is somehow given to deploy status, so once whole group got deployed, you can undeploy it.

Other than that, did you find something unusual?
How is AI behaving with this? Has it any problem or what?

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