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TS/RA2 future at OpenRA
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Volgin
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The buildings for the most part look the same in the previews from the betas... it ain't EA's fault Westwood couldn't decide on one sun for the world. Jeeze.

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WW also gave things different shadows for the sake of visibility. If 90% of a shadow would be hidden by the object itself, then it can be better to give it a slightly different shadow.

In addition was WW a team with one person doing this and another doing that. There it can happen that the infantry responsible person/team didn't worked that close with the other unit/building teams, thus creating small differences.

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Progress Report Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Reaperrr is helping us getting more and more sequences set up for the Tiberian Sun mod. I also added the remapped Tiberium recently.



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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

except of the misaligned buildings and overlays, this looks really promising. good work. Smile
I hope you can give tiberium finally a good and reliable growing and spreading logic (not like in TS where it stops working after a while ingame).

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SMIFFGIG
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Joined: 03 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is looking interesting Smile

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Dasfonia
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oooooo, nice.  All I can say is good luck dealing with height and such.

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Reaperrr
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Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Location: Somewhere in Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
except of the misaligned buildings and overlays, this looks really promising. good work. Smile

The perspective is currently orthogonal as stop-gap solution until real isometry is finished, so we're currently concentrating on getting stuff in and leave offset-tuning for later.

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SMIFFGIG
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Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasfonia wrote:
Oooooo, nice.  All I can say is good luck dealing with height and such.


Not sure this applies as of course OpenRA is a completely different engine. But I remember in a WW interview/chatlog the dev's said one of the things they spent longest on (for such a comparatively small feature) to get working was high bridges!

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^Rampastein
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SMIFFGIG wrote:
Not sure this applies as of course OpenRA is a completely different engine. But I remember in a WW interview/chatlog the dev's said one of the things they spent longest on (for such a comparatively small feature) to get working was high bridges!

No wonder they're so hacky. Place a slope under the bridge and it's broken.

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We are probably leaving 3D terrain out for now as even isometry in the several experimental feature branches at https://github.com/pchote/OpenRA is still segfaulting for no apparent reason which is pretty much halting development.

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Volgin
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ztype isometry - I can totally enjoy TS provided the maps are pretty and the balance is right. Looks fun. I can not wait to sink my teeth into it. Y'all are doing God's work.

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We have made a lot of progress recently. The diamond shaped cells are now supported by the engine. Also Tiberium gathering with Voxel harvesters works. The shroud is rendered correctly as well.



e71923ea-063c-11e4-8c4d-f22d6fbd2469.png
 Description:
A new truly cross-platform ingame map editor has support for the new rendering capabilities.
 Filesize:  101.85 KB
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e71923ea-063c-11e4-8c4d-f22d6fbd2469.png



6d774142-f8e1-11e3-9cee-474f64d22afd.png
 Description:
A lot of progress has been made to proper support of the isometric perspective.
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6d774142-f8e1-11e3-9cee-474f64d22afd.png



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m7
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh wow, this is a great accomplishment! Supporting TS on OpenRA seems like a great idea, and should increase the userbase and project count.

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Ickus
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome work, glad to see progress for TS style stuff.  Smile

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quite impressive.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is excellent. There are still some obvious things missing (building bibs, random terrain tiles using a-g filename suffix), but others are already even better than in TS (separate shadow rendering of voxel barrel on SHP titan, working fog of war).

One thing you should plan to improve is the size of the map editors "Terrain Tile Window". TS often has quite big tiles and with such a small window you are constantly scrolling around to find what you need. Better would be a complete separate window which you might even move on a separate monitor, so you can make it big enough to see all tiles in the tileset at once.

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Parasite03
Cyborg Artillery


Also Known As: ZivDero
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is that woking for of war on the second screenshot? Can't wait for the RA2 mod...

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing progress, well done OpenRA team!

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Bittah Commander
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Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Will the Fog of War cause IEs here too? It wouldn't feel like TS without that. Smile


Although I still think it's too bad that we can't use INI coding for OpenRA mods, it sure is starting to turn into something I'd definitely consider using instead of vanilla TS (or RA2) if I'd start a new mod.

One thing that would certainly be nice is if you could directly use existing TS maps in OpenRA (or at least convert them in a way everything including the map triggers are kept). That just might persuade some people that already have mods in progress to move their mod to OpenRA (as long as the YAML coding doesn't scare them off).

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Deformat
Defense Minister


Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can't wait for the next version (with a basic TS mod) to come up. I really_can't_wait.

Quote:
Oh wow, this is a great accomplishment! Supporting TS on OpenRA seems like a great idea, and should increase the userbase and project count.


Not to mention the amount of graphic assets that will be used by the OpenRA engine.

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ArvinCool
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 01 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Agree with the rest. Supporting TS(along with RA2) will be major.

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CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SMIFFGIG wrote:
Dasfonia wrote:
Oooooo, nice.  All I can say is good luck dealing with height and such.


Not sure this applies as of course OpenRA is a completely different engine. But I remember in a WW interview/chatlog the dev's said one of the things they spent longest on (for such a comparatively small feature) to get working was high bridges!


This is because they went so far in one direction, they would have had to totally redesign a aspect of the engine, and without the time to do so, they had to use what they had.

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bittah Commander wrote:
Although I still think it's too bad that we can't use INI coding for OpenRA mods, it sure is starting to turn into something I'd definitely consider using instead of vanilla TS (or RA2) if I'd start a new mod.


We have automatic converters for legacy RA95 maps that define meta data with INI settings and the TS tilesets defined in INI files will also be converted automatically. You could make a wish at https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/new for importing legacy mods although that would be a bit more complicated.

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Renegade
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Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I may have missed this in the preceding discussion: Are you fundamentally against implementing an INI parser, or just against implementing one instead of your current parser?

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just a funky idea. why not mod red alert perspektive ts and red alert 2? there's been mods that turned red alert into 3d or iso. the changed perspektive and old school look wouldn't be that bad for ts or ra 2 gameplay. jumpjets might look weird but apart from that...

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Parasite03
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Also Known As: ZivDero
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This does not make any sense. Why would you turn a game with voxels and isometry in to game without that?
+ is is not possible due to something being added or removed.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Parasite03 wrote:
This does not make any sense. Why would you turn a game with voxels and isometry in to game without that?


because thats just graphics that don't really have an effect on gameplay?

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well square tiles vs isometric does effect gameplay, though it is entirely personal which one you perfer. I sort of like the simplicity of square tiles better.

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can't think of much for an effect. Jumpjets might look weird and the hover mlrs "wobbling" might not work. deformable terrain that everyone hates might not work as well. besides that red alert is a sort of mix between top down and iso?

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Renegade wrote:
I may have missed this in the preceding discussion: Are you fundamentally against implementing an INI parser, or just against implementing one instead of your current parser?


There is already one. https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/blob/master/OpenRA.Game/FileFormats/IniFile.cs In fact it was used exclusively in the past to parse an adapted RULES.INI, but that was abandoned years ago. The team at that time wanted Generales inspired modular traits and nesting. Therefore invented their own file format (YAML with tabs instead of spaces) which consists of indented key value pairs and nodes. I don't think this structure is possible with INI files. To be honest you here are the first ones who wish their familiar .ini format back. The engine was not designed with multiple rule formats in mind, so there would be some refactoring required. You can file a feature request at https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/new to get an assessment whether this is possible or wanted by the developer community.

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Gangster
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TS fog of war was a bit weird and fake. units could retaiate to hiden targets.
also I wonder will Movetoshroud=no units be able to to travel into it?

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Renegade
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Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Matthias M. wrote:
[...]
You can file a feature request at https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/new to get an assessment whether this is possible or wanted by the developer community.

Eh, if anything, I'd do it myself. Alas, time... :/

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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gangster wrote:
TS fog of war was a bit weird and fake. units could retaiate to hiden targets.
also I wonder will Movetoshroud=no units be able to to travel into it?


We currently have https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Traits#frozenunderfog which works similar to Generals. It can be used to make scouted buildings stay on the map, but not update. Units in the shroud/fog won't be auto-targeted. That was problematic especially with artillery and fixed in late 2012. https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/2507

Regarding Movetoshroud: we don't have that setting yet. Shroud/Fog does not effect whether a unit can travel somewhere. Solely the terrain is taken into account whether explored or not.

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dodgevipergts
Chem Warrior


Joined: 31 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I will almost certainly change my TS modding engine if OpenRA has working fog of war, a game changing feature. I haven't modded TS/YR for like 9 months purely because of lack of fog of war.

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Parasite03
Cyborg Artillery


Also Known As: ZivDero
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I clearely dupport INIs though I have nothing against YAML. Can't wait till RA2 goes live. BTW, do the different mods have the features of the other games (e.g. if I modded TS, would i have, say, RA chrono teleporting for ammo?)

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, you can load the mod DLLs of the other mods and use all their specialized traits.

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Zjorz
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Joined: 22 May 2014

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Matthias M. wrote:
Katzsmile already did this concept



with just OpenRA, custom made SHP(TS) sprites and fake isometry terrain tiles borrowed from C&C ReWire.


Wow, this looks really promising! Is this from a mod? I havent been able to find this on the openra forum

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We just released http://www.openra.net/news/playtest-20150118/ which focuses on Dune 2000 with the Sandworm and Carryall logic, but behind the scenes there has been a lot of progress towards more difficult Tiberian Sun features such as heightmaps:



As our current map editor is not able to render those we build us a new one from scratch using the in-game rendering engines:



that also has no problems rendering Voxels inside UI widgets:


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Crimsonum
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! I'm definitely looking forward for more TS features. If you could make the editor illuminate the map as it would appear ingame, that would be suberb.

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Volgin
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OMG AWESOME. Are you going to bother re-enabling the other old C&C1 units left over ingame?

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Ickus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow. Looking very nice. Smile

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

excellent work.
The pixel precise cellgrid preview is already showing much effort was put in accuracy (not comparable with the unclean grid of FinalSun)

Matthias M. wrote:
We just released http://www.openra.net/news/playtest-20150118/ which focuses on Dune 2000 with the Sandworm and Carryall logic

That doesn't exclude this logic from being used in other projects as well right? Both would be also excellent for a TS based mod.

Matthias M. wrote:
behind the scenes there has been a lot of progress towards more difficult Tiberian Sun features such as heightmaps:

Do you also set a limit for the max height? TS has only 14 while anything above 12 is causing rendering bugs.
It would be very nice if OpenRA doesn't follows the same restrictions and leaves some more open modding capabilities for future mod projects.

Matthias M. wrote:
As our current map editor is not able to render those we build us a new one from scratch using the in-game rendering engines:

Using the engine itself as map editor is a very nice move, which surely helps even more in future.
Being able to edit a map, add scripts and triggers and then just press a [Play] button to instantly see if the scripts/triggers work as intended would save a lot of time. (unlike a separate editor where you constantly have to switch between editor and game, load the map, go to the point check the triggers, go back to editor etc)

As Crimmy mentioned, a lighting preview would be excellent too. Also of the placed lightposts etc.

Matthias M. wrote:
that also has no problems rendering Voxels inside UI widgets:

That could offer a whole new way to design the ingame UI too. No static icon anymore, but rotating 3D VXL previews. Though maybe a bit too performance heavy when many units need to be rendered at the same time just for the UI.
On the other hand is the fixed number of about 10 icons nothing to the possible 100 units on the battlefield.

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Iran
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 23 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LKO you can use the spawner to instantly load into the map as spectator or w/e. Then you can add a shortcut to your taskbar or w/e and you have a 'play' button. ;-*)

Create a spawn.ini file and create a shortcut which runs the game exe with -SPAWN as argument.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's still the significant delay of the game loading however, and you need to restart the game every time you make some changes (or in singleplayer missions, ESC -> Abort Mission -> Restart).

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Since rules gets read during map loading, you do not need to restart the whole after some changes, just the game session.

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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, and with the spawner (in multiplayer maps) that means restarting the game.

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CnCNet Client | CnCNet TS patches | More Quality-of-Life Improvements for RA Remastered


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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

That doesn't exclude this logic from being used in other projects as well right? Both would be also excellent for a TS based mod.


All the traits are shared and can be dynamically loaded so you can also have a Carryall in TS lift Tibeirum harvesters.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

Do you also set a limit for the max height? TS has only 14 while anything above 12 is causing rendering bugs.


We have not hard-coded any max height, but we currently have rendering bugs on all heights especially with shroud and building placement. Yes, there is a reason we have not published something yet for the players to test.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

As Crimmy mentioned, a lighting preview would be excellent too. Also of the placed lightposts etc.


We don't have lightning implemented yet, but at the current state of my in-game map editor everything is rendered as it will look like in the game including idle animations or low-power overlays which is quite nice to check if destroying that power plant will impact a base.


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Phrohdoh
Soldier


Joined: 12 Feb 2015
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seeing as the title does include RA2 and this thread is only ~2 months old I'm going to self-plug my unofficial RA2 mod for OpenRA and hopefully generate more interest and show off a bit more of what the engine is capable of.

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