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Potential for a Star Trek-themed RA2:YR mod?
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WhiteDragon25
Civilian


Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject:   Potential for a Star Trek-themed RA2:YR mod? Reply with quote

This is actually one of two mod ideas I had (the other one being a TW mod, but I'm not sure how that'll go over here, so this one I'm presenting first):

What potential is there for a Star Trek-themed RA2:YR mod?

For those who are Star Trek fans, you probably already know this, but for those who don't: out of all the retail Star Trek games out there, most of them are terrible; and out of those Star Trek games, only one or two actually take place on the ground. Hell, even in the various TV series, we never see any real ground battles of satisfying scale, let alone any ground armies either - all combat we see usually is fought with Redshirts on foot (no tanks, no APCs, no artillery, etc.).

Quite frankly, when it comes to ground warfare, Star Trek is pitiful... which is why I think there is potential for a Trek-themed ground-based RTS.

Think about it: since there is no real canon reference to such, any Trek ground armies are a complete and total blank slate. You could do whatever the hell you want with one, as long as it's based on Trek's canon tech-base.

As for using RA2:YR as the base format? Three reasons:
1) gameplay-wise, it seems like the best fit; simple mechanics, largely uncomplicated unit system, and art-wise feels appropriate with Trek's atmosphere.
2) Many of the ideas I have for this mod simply use functions largely already present and tried & tested, so should be relatively easy to do for those with experience.
3) Two words - "Market Penetration": a good Star Trek game? As a Command & Conquer mod? Now THAT would attract a lot of attention from both Trek fans and C&C fans alike. Who knows, perhaps real game companies end up taking notice of it and produce proper retail games inspired by the same formula! Razz

So, what do you guys think? Would it be possible to create a Star Trek RA2:YR mod?

(Note: Specific ideas for this will be detailed below.)

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Zero18
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You create it. Wink
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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero18 wrote:
You create it. Wink


Heheh... heh... Yeah, small problem with that: I have no idea on how to do modding, let alone for RA2:YR. Embarassed I am a complete novice and newb at it. Hell, when I first tried to mod Tiberium Wars in a beginner's practice-run, I couldn't even manage to successfully change the price of the GDI Riflemen Squads down to 50 credits. Embarassed

I got the ideas on how it should generally look, but I simply don't have the skill or talent to create it.

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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RA2/YR is easier to learn though. So this should be much quicker to pick up on.
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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
RA2/YR is easier to learn though. So this should be much quicker to pick up on.


Eeh... not really sure if that's true or not (looking through the RA2 Editing Tutorials Vault, it looks damn complicated... or maybe I'm just dense).

Still, I'd like to lay out the ideas I have for it so far (got to have a layout of things before-hand, right?). I'll start with a listing of them in my next post.

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Zero18
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhiteDragon25 wrote:
Atomic_Noodles wrote:
RA2/YR is easier to learn though. So this should be much quicker to pick up on.


Eeh... not really sure if that's true or not (looking through the RA2 Editing Tutorials Vault, it looks damn complicated... or maybe I'm just dense).

Still, I'd like to lay out the ideas I have for it so far (got to have a layout of things before-hand, right?). I'll start with a listing of them in my next post.


I approve Atomic_Noodles that RA2/YR is easier to code.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a small problem:
Since no ground based warfare stuff was ever shown, how would anyone relate the completely new ground units of this mod with Star Trek? It isn't likely you'll see a saucer-section shaped tank with 2 tracks/nacelles. Or you see green, bird shaped tanks with cloaking devices.
In other words, you could use vanilla RA2, simply rename all the units and you have already your Star Trek mod ("powerplant"->"anti-matter reactor", "grizzly tank"->"bear-class tank").

In addition is ground based warfare in Star Trek quite ridiculous imo.
They have scanners precise enough to target a single molecule on a planets surface and weapons with adjustable firepower to destroy the target and nothing else around it. Then again they have anti-matter torpedoes to destroy an entire country in seconds. So any army on ground would be obliterated in seconds by a single big ship in orbit.


Better would be a space oriented game something like Star Trek Armada. Though there is not really a reason to create such a game with the limited capabilities of the C&C engine.
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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I see a small problem:
Since no ground based warfare stuff was ever shown, how would anyone relate the completely new ground units of this mod with Star Trek? It isn't likely you'll see a saucer-section shaped tank with 2 tracks/nacelles. Or you see green, bird shaped tanks with cloaking devices.
In other words, you could use vanilla RA2, simply rename all the units and you have already your Star Trek mod ("powerplant"->"anti-matter reactor", "grizzly tank"->"bear-class tank").


I was getting to that, hold your horses!Laughing

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
In addition is ground based warfare in Star Trek quite ridiculous imo.
They have scanners precise enough to target a single molecule on a planets surface and weapons with adjustable firepower to destroy the target and nothing else around it. Then again they have anti-matter torpedoes to destroy an entire country in seconds. So any army on ground would be obliterated in seconds by a single big ship in orbit.


Not quite. Though we never really see it on-screen, there's a few passing references here and there, and there's a few logical arguments to support the possibility of Trek ground armies:

1) The Cardassians were mentioned to have had tanks during the Bajor Occupation; additionally, being a military dictatorship, they would need significant ground troops in order to enforce their totalitarianism.
2) The Romulans attempted to invade Vulcan with just 2000 soldiers; sure, their main target should've been the local Vulcan government (allowing a stranglehold of the planet), but they would need heavy equipment to ensure that they would be "too dug in" as Admiral Sela said herself.
3) The Dominion, like the Cardassians, are a military dictatorship - and a far bigger one; since they rely so heavily on the Jem'Hadar, they would need heavy ground forces to enforce their conquests (especially during the Dominion War).
4) Can't believe I'm using this as an example, but... ST: Nemesis's Buggy Scene. First time we've actually seen the Federation use a wheeled-vehicle - sure, a pansy-ass dune buggy, but hey, better than nothing!
5) The Klingons. Seriously, do you honestly expect them to have a ground army solely consisting of swordsmen, planet-conquering warmongers that they are?
6) Orbital bombardments are not the end-all-be-all; sometimes you want to take a planet intact, without having to deal with smoldering craters where there were once cities.

Sure, it's sparse, but there is precedent (however minor it may be).

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it has happened before, Star Trek: New Worlds.
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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OrangeNero wrote:
it has happened before, Star Trek: New Worlds.


And it was crap. May it never be spoken of again.

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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, here's some of the actual ideas I had for this (all of it in extremely early conceptual stage):

Federation Infantry:

Away Team/Hazard Team - extremely basic infantryman (actually just a Starfleet Redshirt with a phaser).

Starfleet Engineer - obviously, the Feddies' Engineer unit. Ideas for special abilities range from laying down transporter markers to fabricating replicators/phaser turrets/whatever on the spot. Or perhaps spawning an Exocomp that heals vehicles.Very Happy

Starfleet Medical Officer - the Feddie medic. Heals infantry.

Starfleet Science Officer - a Vulcan science officer armed with a phaser for self-defense and a tricorder for detection; provides a support buff to other Feddie infantry (via finding enemy weak-points).

Federation Marine - the proper Feddie ground infantry, armed with a phaser rifle and light armor.

Federation Heavy Weapons Marine - the heavy weapons infantry, armed with the Worfzooka seen in ST: Insurrection.

Federation Sniper Marine - sniper infantry, armed with the TR-116 rifle seen in DS9; special ability is the ability to shoot through walls (thanks to phase-shifting) and ignore personal shields (such as the Borg's) due to being a projectile weapon.

M.A.C.O. Commando - elite Feddie infantry. Armed with a heavy phaser repeater, strong armor, and explosive charges.

Federation Vehicles:

Argo Buggy - light scout buggy. Armed with a light phaser cannon.

Phaser Tank - repulsor-lift tank armed with a heavy phaser cannon. Due to its repulsor-lift locomotion, is amphibious.

Repulsor APC - a repulsor-lift infantry transport. Amphibious.

Photon Artillery - heavy artillery platform that fires micro-photon torpedoes.

Argo Shuttlecraft - heavy airborne transport. Can carry infantry (perhaps up to 6?) or one Argo Buggy.

Federation Structures:

Mass Replicator - produces vehicles.

Transporter Pad - allows ability to transport anywhere on the map (given another pad). Possible usage as initial spawn for Federation early infantry.

----------------------------------

Yes, yes, basic and simple, I know! I've actually managed to think up more stuff for the Borg, surprisingly. But the basic idea I'm trying to get across here is to have a Star Trek flavor to the unit/building design.

Actually, speaking of the Borg, I'll write up their stuff next!

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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Borg stuff I mentioned? Here's that Borg stuff I mentioned (extremely early conceptual stage):

Borg "Infantry":

Labor Drone - Constructs Borg structures. Collects resources.

Logistics Drone - Provides all Borg drones with support buff. Constructs transport relays (see below).

Maintenance Drone - Repairs Borg structures.

Tactical Drone - The sole Borg combat infantry. Armed with a heavy plasma cannon (ala Nod's Cyborg Commando). Strong against virtually everything, but slow to fire.

Assimilation Drone - Assimilates enemy units and civilians (Think of Yuri's mutation weapons).

Medical Drone - Heals Borg drones.

Infected Civilian - civilians infected with Borg nanoprobes. Convert these into full Borg drones.

Borg Structures:

Regeneration Alcove - Garrison Borg drones to allow faster production bonus. (Use wall logic to create the rows of alcoves seen in canon.)

Assimilation Chamber - Send infected civilians/infantry in; random Borg drone comes out. (Use Grinder logic and Cloning Vats logic.)

Vinculum Tower - Provides support buff (enhances collective connectivity) and provides radar.

Network Relay Hub - Garrison Borg drones to transport them anywhere on the map through Network Relays (think TW's Subway System).

Notes:

- All Borg drones have personal shielding (protects against energy weapons such as phasers, but does not protect against melee or projectile weapons.)
- Certain units cannot be assimilated (say, Dominion Changelings, or Breen soldiers).

---------------------------------------

More thought put into this batch, and actually partially inspired by the cancelled "Borg Assimilator" game from back in 2000/2001 or so. A rather unique feel to them, if I say so myself. If you think they are overpowered: there's a reason for the "does not protect against melee or projectile weapons" thing... and the hint about the Dominion.Wink

Additionally, some thoughts about the Borg support buffs: perhaps, when things such as the Vinculum Tower would provide an area-of-effect buff are destroyed, all the Borg units in the area-of-effect get stunned (they freeze up as if hit with an EMP). Think this would be more balanced?

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Download VXLSE3 and get to work!

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WhiteDragon25
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orac wrote:
Download VXLSE3 and get to work!


Uhh... question: what is that and where the heck can I download it?

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Zero18
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't look at me, I got nothing here to say, Bro. There is list of tools on the left side of the bar, find CnC Editing tools and there you go. At least I'm clicky.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, Star Trek online and Starfleet Command are actually decent. Orion Pirates is still DA THING when it comes to great ST games.

Good luck, old yrarg had a Constitution and a Klingon BOP IIRC.
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