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My plan for Ares 0.5
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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gangster: Thank you for all the testing so far. New binary is up, fixing a few things.

vord: Airstrike voices was done long ago, but never included. Depending on how fast testing goes on, it might hit 0.5 or 0.6. The other things are not changed so far.

New binary changelog:

Restored PipScale=Tiberium for buildings
For buildings with positive Storage=, the pips will show the currently used storage space compared to the overall space. Ore will show a yellow pip, gems a blue one.

To enable PipScale=Tiberium, you also have to enable Refinery.UseStorage=yes, because otherwise the original game would show the scale for the unmodded refineries, because they have PipScale=Tiberium and Storage>0 defined.


Made Tiberium Damage customizable for each Tiberium
[Tiberium]Damage= (integer, defaults to Power/10)
The damage a unit that is not Tiberium Proof gets from entering a cell containing this type of Tiberium.

[Tiberium]Warhead= (warhead, defaults to [CombatDamage]C4Warhead)
The warhead that deals the Tiberium Damage. This is not used for the Tiberium Explosive feature.


Customizable TiberiumTransmogrify
[InfantryType]TiberiumTransmogrify= (integer, defaults to [General]TiberiumTransmogrify)
Same meaning as the original.


Changed neutral house selection for Visceroid creation
Now it should find the house by the name "Neutral", which should fix the not appearing Visceroids bug Gangster described above.


Reimplemented ChainReaction
Works the same way as in Tiberian Sun, but requires some more thought because the C4Warhead in TS (HE) had Spread while the RA2 has not (Super). Thus, the effect will be there, but it will be punctual.

This might also be the explanation why infantry isn't damaged by Tiberium that much in YR. ([Tiberium]Warhead=HE would roughly be what TS has set).

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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is relevant to my interests. Keep up the good work Smile

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been having fun with the ChainReaction logic in D-day, ammo boxes & oil drums blowing up everywhere Smile

However I now now have a problem with my air supply drop SW, some of the ammo boxes blowup upon landing on the ground. It's probably because I use a dummy infantry that kills itself & then spawns invisible debris that spawns tib, the debris is probably setting off the other tib >.> Perhaps adding TiberiumHeal=yes to the dummy infantry could produce the same effect without the need for debris...

Edit: Yep TiberiumHeal worked fine, in fact it works even better then dummy debris!

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Gangster
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can anyone help me with ChainReaction. I can't make it chain exposion,. What am I missing here?

Code:

BarrelExplode=TIBEXPLOLRG

TiberiumExplosive=yes
TiberiumExplosionDamage=100
TiberiumStrength=20    

C4Warhead=TIBEXPL


Code:

Name=Blue Tiberium1
Tiberium=yes
LegalTarget=false
RadarInvisible=false
RadarColor=183,183,255
Explodes=yes
ChainReaction=yes


Code:

[TIBEXPL]
CellSpread=0.5
Verses=30%,30%,30%,30%,30%,30%,30%,30%,30%,30%,30%
Tiberium=yes
ProneDamage=10%
Rocker=yes
Sparky=yes
InfDeath=1
;Bright=true         
;CLDisableBlue=true   
;CLDisableRed=true
;CombatLightSize=50%
Versus.civ_concrete.PassiveAcquire=no


Code:

[TIBEXPLOLRG]
Image=TWLT070
SpawnDelay=1
UseNormalLight=yes
TiberiumSpreadRadius=1
TiberiumSpawnType=TIB2_01
Report=Explosion13
Next=TIBEXPLOLRG2

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tiberium=yes, ChainReaction=yes maybe Explodes=yes are needed on a tiberium type with multiple images (the normal tiberium has 12 while i think the second has only one image.

The explosion strength depends on the tiberium value in a cell. It is only considered if the value is larger than 1. This is why only the ordinary tiberium types work here.

BarrelExplode=, TiberiumExplosive=, TiberiumExplosionDamage= and TiberiumStrength= are not needed.

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just added...

[GEM01-12]
Explodes=yes
ChainReaction=yes

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I always thought 'TiberiumTransmogrify= ' was a broken tag that referred to the % Chance any cell of green tiberium would transmute into blue tiberium. As this was mentioned in an old WW chat log/Q&A (but obviously didnt make it to final game)

But i guess something like
TiberiumTransmute=%

would make more sense for this

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I took it from this decription of this rules tag (safe for the spelling error):

SmallVisceroid=VISC_SML  ; when infantry transmorgifies into a visceroid

As well as the TiberiumDeathToVisceroid and TiberiumTransmogrify articles.

Mig Eater: And did that work?

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CCHyper
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SMIFFGIG wrote:
I always thought 'TiberiumTransmogrify= ' was a broken tag that referred to the % Chance any cell of green tiberium would transmute into blue tiberium. As this was mentioned in an old WW chat log/Q&A (but obviously didnt make it to final game)

But i guess something like
TiberiumTransmute=%

would make more sense for this


They key appears in the RULES.INI of Tiberian Sun, but no code for it exists in the executable.

I was also under the assumption that it was chance that Tiberium was mutate/change type over a period of time.


AlexB wrote:
I took it from this decription of this rules tag (safe for the spelling error):

SmallVisceroid=VISC_SML  ; when infantry transmorgifies into a visceroid

As well as the TiberiumDeathToVisceroid and TiberiumTransmogrify articles.


I ignore anything from DeeZires guide. As also, Small to Large Visceroid is still obeying the name, as it is changing shape. I'm pretty certain that TiberiumTransmogrify originally was for when Green changed shape into Blue etc.

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For D-day it did, I'm going to test it on a stock rules ini to make sure tho.

Edit: Yep Explodes & ChainReaction is all you need to get it working.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CCHyper wrote:

They key appears in the RULES.INI of Tiberian Sun, but no code for it exists in the executable.

I was also under the assumption that it was chance that Tiberium was mutate/change type over a period of time.
[...]
I ignore anything from DeeZires guide. As also, Small to Large Visceroid is still obeying the name, as it is changing shape. I'm pretty certain that TiberiumTransmogrify originally was for when Green changed shape into Blue etc.


Is that chat log available anywhere?

Even if ignoring the DeeZire definitions: The SmallVisceroid comment is in an original document and it is the only time the word "transmogrify" is used aside from the TiberiumTransmogrify definition itself. There is no sign of the green to blue tiberium change existing at all and being called "transmogrification".

Mig Eater: thanks!

---
On a related note, the BehavesLike=Gas particle systems can also convert infantry to visceroids. This has not been restored so far. Firestorm adds BehavesLike=WeakGas, which is like Gas except for the visceroid creation logic. How to restore this, without breaking existing code? Instead of changing Gas and adding WeakGas, I could add StrongGas with visceroid creation and leave Gas alone. Or should I leave that out for now?

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can already use a particle system with a custom infantry death anim that spawns a visceroid so is it worth it..?

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That wouldn't have the morphing into large visceroid tho.

Dunno, I don't think I'd use it at all.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not sure gas in TS ever spawned large Visceroids anyway.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It doesn't, but MakeInfanty anims can only create infantry, not VehicleTypes like the ones used for SmallVisceroid. And only VehicleTypes support the wandering and combination into LargeVisceroids. So it's not entirely recreatable. But if there's no need to have it, there's no need to code it.

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Gangster
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Location: Moscow, Russia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I whould love to have effect for myself, but I can live with out it too, its very specific. But general idea for spawning different technotypes other than infantry worth a consider I think.

Can it be made to explosive tiberium could have a damage treshhold: a minimun damage should be dealt by weapon on cell to trigger explosion? right now it explosion trigged even with dummy weapons with damage=0, (and dummy airburst weapons too) which is absurd

EDIT:
Folks...I've tested it on vanila too.
Can you please confirm if chain reaction gone if you set
Explodes=yes
ChainReaction=no.
It look like it is not a CR logic cause reaction but flying debris.
And will CR stay if you comment out
[General]
BarrelDebris=;GASTANK,PIECE
?

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Last edited by Gangster on Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:50 pm; edited 2 times in total

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gangster wrote:
Can it be made to explosive tiberium could have a damage treshhold: a minimun damage should be dealt by weapon on cell to trigger explosion? right now it explosion trigged even with dummy weapons with damage=0, (and dummy airburst weapons too) which is absurd


yea this would be good, or even an additional % chance of chain react ?

I used to hate it in TS when an entire blue field of tiberium would explode because of one little stray disk for a disk thrower or something!

or maybe if the chain reaction effect could gradually die out somehow?

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Ickus
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh goody! I do have a simple question, with the cloaking effects is it possible to create a transparent technotype without the actual "stealth" effect. I know it seems odd, but none the less curious?  #Bandit

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can confirm what Gangster said It's the debris causing a "chain reaction" & not the tag. I guess this explains why my supply SW failed.

I tested this in the original game BTW & the same thing happens, so I guess the chain reaction fix isn't doing anything & the Explodes logic needs to be fixed too..

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Gangster
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Creating a some sort of CR is indeed possible with Debris types
(or debris animaton attached to explosion anim with Trailer=. this is actualy a way I implemented it in RW)


ChainReaction map.

[CombatDamage]
TiberiumExplosive=yes    ; Is tiberium extra explosive?;Allows Explodes=yes overlays to explode.
TiberiumExplosionDamage=;Damade dealt by expoded tiberium patch. was 100 in TS, 0 in YR; Ares using a tiberium power instead
TiberiumStrength= ;the higher this value, the harder it is to get big tiberium to explode, w 20 in TS,  in YR tag is invalid (also set to -1)
C4Warhead= ;WH used for explosive tiberium in TS\YR

[OverlayType]
Explodes=yes
ChainReaction=yes

[General]
BarrelExplode= ;visual part of exposion. Animation.
BarrelDebris=  ;debris spawned
BarrelParticle= ;particle sys spawned

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ApolloTD
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AlexB wrote:

---
On a related note, the BehavesLike=Gas particle systems can also convert infantry to visceroids. This has not been restored so far. Firestorm adds BehavesLike=WeakGas, which is like Gas except for the visceroid creation logic. How to restore this, without breaking existing code? Instead of changing Gas and adding WeakGas, I could add StrongGas with visceroid creation and leave Gas alone. Or should I leave that out for now?


I would vouch for StrongGas for those tiberian mods seeking achieve complete visceroid logic (keeping RA2 mods intact using normal gas), however I recall that if gas particle damages buildings, it must be among first few in particle/system list or IE occurs but can just change the type of default gascloud Smile

Alternatively some additional key under Gas Particle like ConvertsTo=[VehicleType] to enable more diverse use than directly only hardcoded visceroid entry?

Speaking of vehicletypes

DeathFrames/DeathFrameRate/MaxDeathCounter/FiringSyncFrame* since Tiberian Sun are broken and not work at all if you want death anim or synced firing for an shp vehicle.

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FS-21
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AlexB, What about if you split the RepairStep and IRepairStep for the Tiberium heal?
If you customize these tags for the tib healing stuff other areas of the game can be affected like buildings repair speed, etc... (for example) something like UTiberiumHealStep for vehicles and ITiberiumHealStep for infantry Rolling Eyes

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

New binary:
* ChainReaction damage fixed (it is now multiplied by Power=)
* Slaves entering undeployed Slave Miner won't crash any more
* ResourceDestination=yes also considered when drawing Tiberium pip scale
* Smoke animation when slave enters Slave Miner restored

I'm currently working on customizing the heal steps and delays. It's not fully done yet.

I haven't looked into death frames and all that yet. Before I start something completely new, I'll include more things that are already done (or related to them). Same for the strong gas change (which requires extension of particle stuff, which hasn't been done yet).

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FS-21
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
* Slaves entering undeployed Slave Miner won't crash any more
* ResourceDestination=yes also considered when drawing Tiberium pip scale
* Smoke animation when slave enters Slave Miner restored

Works as you described in Slave miners.

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ApolloTD
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Happened to notice that if you use DestroyAnim and the used anim has CustomPalette, this is not obeyed and anim is drawn in wrong default palette. Rolling Eyes

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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I believe DestroyAnim is drawn by the same palette as the building as is the ActiveAnim, etc.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Next binary maybe today, maybe tomorrow. I fixed a bug that led to freezes when Storage was used. I wonder why only one person got those and reported them, though...

I don't know whether you did see it already: I updated several ModEnc pages related to chain reactions. The important parts are ChainReaction (close range reaction) and TiberiumChainReaction (the debris thing). Both effects should be working just fine (but note that TS had C4Warhead=HE, not Super).

Looking at the few things that are to be done yet, I guess the first patch of Tiberium is almost finished.

Gangster wrote:
Can it be made to explosive tiberium could have a damage treshhold: a minimun damage should be dealt by weapon on cell to trigger explosion? right now it explosion trigged even with dummy weapons with damage=0, (and dummy airburst weapons too) which is absurd

You mean like maybe checking for TiberiumStrength? That would be possible.

Ickus wrote:
Oh goody! I do have a simple question, with the cloaking effects is it possible to create a transparent technotype without the actual "stealth" effect. I know it seems odd, but none the less curious?  #Bandit
A what? Like a unit always being drawn transparently even though it isn't cloaked?

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm still a bit confused about what code is necessary to get chain reactions working, I don't want to think I got it working correctly again only to find I'm not even close.

BTW I think Ickus wants to make "ghost" units etc.

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Gangster
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, Alex, We wouldn't mind a quick start settings If you have  manage to have working ones. CR is something worry me much and I start thinking I am missing something important.


And YAY! for for Tib Strength consideration, I bet it would help a lot to CR users!

PS Sorry for a request - I just can't resist to not mention: Can it be done to have tib (or custom overlay) to having an optinon to using a unittem palette again. To have it remaped, and beening coloured with INI tag, as it was in TS instead having been coloured with temperate.pal.

PPS Could you please fix tiberium shadow bug?
If you have everything set to have shadow enabled for tiberium overlays - it will show shadow. but having applied shadow form TIB11 to every different tiberium patch on map.
http://ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33433

PPS Also editing temperate.pal will cause a grafic glitch with voxel and shp units which are using unittem.pal.
http://ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30088

PPPS Mate, again, sorry, I've just keep posting everything I know what was changed form TS to RA2 and these are suggestions for unhardcode. Everything I know what was buged and related somehow to tiberium. I think this important to everyone, even if they havn't had realised this yet.
A little bit freedom with tib palette\shadow is a must for all other custom resource types anyone can think of.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

New binary as promised, but not as far as I hoped:

Freeze is gone.


Customizable Tiberium Heal
[Tiberium]Heal.Delay= (double, defaults to [General]TiberiumHeal=)
Minutes between heal steps being applied.

[Tiberium]Heal.Step= (int, defaults to [General]RepairStep=)
The health to restore for AircraftTypes after each delay.

[Tiberium]Heal.IStep= (int, defaults to [General]IRepairStep=)
The health to restore for InfantryTypes after each delay.

[Tiberium]Heal.UStep= (int, defaults to [General]URepairStep=)
The health to restore for VehicleTypes after each delay.


Change to Tiberium Damage
Damage does not get set to 1 anymore in case you set Damage=0. This rule is now only applied to the Power value, which is used as default. This means it is now possible to have non-harmful Tiberium types if Tiberium Damage is enabled.


Customizable Explosion warhead
[Tiberium]ExplosionWarhead= (warhead, defaults to [General]C4Warhead)
The warhead used to deliver the damage of the chain reaction effect.

TS's C4Warhead was HE, which had Spread set. RA2 uses Super, which doesn't. To make ChainReaction work like in TS, this should be set to HE.


Customizable TiberiumExplosionDamage for animations
[Tiberium]ExplosionDamage= (int, defaults to [CombatDamage]TiberiumExplosionDamage)
The damage an animation with TiberiumChainReaction=yes deals to the cell it impacts at.

Also enhanced to apply here:
[Tiberium]ExplosionWarhead= (int, defaults to [General]C4Warhead)
The warhead used for animations with TiberiumChainReaction=yes to deliver their damage.

----

Somehow I'm not fully satisfied with this stuff. Maybe the tag names will change (the Heal.*Step ones), maybe the ExplosionDamage customization will move over from Tiberium to the Animation.

Regarding TiberiumStrength: I tried to do that, but it doesn't really do what you want. ChainReaction and TiberiumChainReaction has nothing to do with Explodes=yes on Overlay, and that tag is what blows the overlay on the slightest impact. And Explodes doesn't just apply to Tiberium, but also crates and whatever else you'd like. So TiberiumStrength would be a bad choice here. (Not in this build: I added the TiberiumStrength check to ChainReaction and it works, but the overlay still explodes and thus can cause TiberiumChainReactions.)

I guess the idea is to have Explodes=yes only explode if the damage is above a certain value. This should be customizable either as a global tag or per overlay (which isn't possible at the moment). This will have to wait for later.

You can now set the Tiberium Explosion warheads to another Warhead without having to change C4Warhead. Use a warhead like TS' "HE".

I explained ChainReaction and TiberiumChainReaction, as well as almost all the tags that play into both features over at ModEnc. You can read between the lines how to make them work. For ChainReaction, setting this tag to yes for the overlay types, then shoot at it (if the OverlayTypes have Tiberium=yes set, the warhead also needs Tiberium=yes). Shooting at a patch of Tiberium should show an immediate effect: The cell's neighbours get their Tiberium removed also.

For TiberiumChainReaction, you need to hit a patch of Tiberium with an Animation with TiberiumChainReaction=yes. In this case the damage is delivered and debris is spawned. If the Debris animations do have TiberiumChainReaction=yes set also, this is the chain reaction.

If Explodes=yes, the animation BarrelExplode= is spawned. If this is TiberiumChainReaction=yes, this way, Explosive=yes can also start a Tiberium Chain Reaction.

The other things will have to wait for later.

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Ickus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, sorry, 'ghostly' units where what i was alluding to, as to to keep translucency effect of stealth, but enemy units still being able to react to it, without the need for sensors.

and can the transparency value be adjusted to either be more opaque than others.

anyways fascinating stuff. Wink

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

New binary:

Customizable Tiberium Chain Reaction Chance
[Tiberium]Debris.Chance= (percentage, defaults to 33)
The chance a cell containing this Tiberium type hit by a TiberiumChainReaction=yes animation will spawn one of its Debris.

Threshold for Explodes on Overlay
[General]OverlayExplodeThreshold= (int, defaults to 0)
Only if the damage to a cell is higher than this does an overlay with Explodes=yes explode. Below this value, the overlay stays intact.
Damage is the unchanged damage value without any Verses applied.

There is no plan to make this per-OverlayType at the moment, but the possibility is there to default to this tag later.

---

I have yet to understand Tiberium and other overlay drawing. Not sure where the split between image and shadow happens. This also affects different palettes for Tiberium.

I added a bunch of new blueprints, which need to be confirmend (the ones with Beta Available). Some of the older ones have changed and were updated with the latest stuff which I posted here already. Most already confirmed, but some minor parts might still be missing.

Heal.IStep and friends still might be renamed to IHealStep and so on. But please still confirm them to be working or not.

Right now, I'll sit back and watch the confirmations coming in. After that, we'll have to see how much time there is to still warrant a release this year. I still want to include some miscellaneous changes, and of course, cloak and tiberium should be merged into one branch as soon as possible.

Thank you all for testing so far!

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SMIFFGIG
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great stuff

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HG_SCIPCION
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

>> Smile is posible add more customizable the logic of reload?
the reload is +1,+1,+1.... +1

is posible add more customizable?..... +20,+20( or more)  for the infantry is more good Rolling Eyes

plis....
thanks



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AlexB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A unit-specific reload amount would be possible, but that's another feature request, not something related to the Tiberium changes.

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HG_SCIPCION
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, thanks
good luck AlexB and for the people of Ares Wink

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ApolloTD
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did some various testing and cloak features work brilliant as are tiberium features but I can't for life of me seem to make Debris= from tiberium chainreaction get made while else chainreaction does seem to form just fine unless I am mistaken(?)

In my case I put the relevant debris and debris.chance under aboreus but no dice. Confused

Oh btw, kill drivered stealth tank remains cloaked Very Happy

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Currently I'm working on assorted stuff of the kind you wouldn't even notice because everything should work as it previously did. It's called refactoring and can make the code quality better, but all it did so far was making the dll bigger xD.

It seems the latest additions to the Tiberium Fun branch don't work that well. I'll check after I'm done with the refactoring.

Two issues will need some work, namely BalloonHover and CloakStop, which doesn't work, and Storage on Slave Miners. Both are kinda optional. I'd prefer to enable the first one, but not the second one.

If Slave Miners undeploy, the money is either to be spread into different silos (with the possibility to lose some of it when they overflow), or moved to some kind of shadow account (to be put back when the miner deploys again). When money is taken from a player, units aren't considered, that is, an undeployed slave miner's stored Tiberium does not count, so money would not be accessible: rich players can't build anything if the miners are on the move. Adding support for this will just make the game slower for everyone, because now not only a player's buildings are checked, but all players' buildings and units (each player has a list of all his buildings, but not for his units). That's why I prefer to leave this as it is: Slave Miners shouldn't have Storage (but it is ok if the Yuri-style player has special Silos, then all of this doesn't apply).

ApolloTD: Debris and Debris.Chance only apply to the case when a cell containing Tiberium overlay is hit by an animation with TiberiumChainReaction=yes. Debris.Chance=100 should then always spawn one of the Debris.

I'll look into the KillDriver and Stealth Tank issue, thanks.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

By slower you mean peformance wise?

I don't feel like the money should be potentially lost when you undeploy a Slave Miner, but having it inaccessible while mobile does seem to make sense and so if the vehicle is destroyed the saved money will be lost as well.

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ApolloTD
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay I worked out the problem, can't keep explodes=yes on the tiberium overlays or alternatively the explosion threshold has to be fairly high(?) so won't blow up and chainreaction can then work, else it just kills the ore/tiberium spot and won't spawn the debris from chain reaction at all.

For some reason I keep getting eva ore miner under attack when it enters ore field... Wonder what I've forgot Smile

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OmegaBolt: The performance would not really go down noticably (considering that your toaster likely has more CPU power today than the recommended system for YR has). But whenever Tiberium is stored, withdrawn, moved, dumped or whatever, it has to account for all technos. It can be optimized by adding special handling like "check buildings first using the fast way", and only if that fails "check all technos ignoring buildings the slow way".

Remember when people complained that Ares lagged when large groups of units started moving, or when shooting. That was just the Firestorm wall check. It checked whether the cells from unit to target were blocked before firing. That was enough. Doing few minor things many times can have a perceivable effect.

Apollo: Has the miner TiberiumProof=no? Tiberium Damage now works on all foot types (that is: not buildings).

That reminds me that I wanted to add a check so aircraft isn't healed or damaged when flying over tiberium.

The Firestorm needs some updates, too (and some stuff is lying around since 2010 already), but this will have to wait a few more days.

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ApolloTD
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AlexB wrote:

Apollo: Has the miner TiberiumProof=no? Tiberium Damage now works on all foot types (that is: not buildings).


No, I even tried adding TiberiumProof=yes... Not sure whats with that chrono miner

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MRMIdAS
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you not make the game check only buildings, but also entries in PrerequisiteProcAlternate=

that'd fix it wouldn't it?

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would still be going through the list of all technos and then checking whether each type is in PrerequisiteProcAlternate=, but this would replace one hardcoded system with another hardcoded system. There are solutions for all of this, but the work needed to get this working is just in no relation to the feature.

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MRMIdAS
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AlexB wrote:
That would still be going through the list of all technos and then checking whether each type is in PrerequisiteProcAlternate=, but this would replace one hardcoded system with another hardcoded system. There are solutions for all of this, but the work needed to get this working is just in no relation to the feature.


Sorry, I figured the game would read from PrerequisiteProcAlternate= and get the technotype from there, not the other way round.

Oh wait, I expected WW to be logical, how stupid of me.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PrerequisiteProcAlternate= gives us a TechnoType, then the list of all Technos has to be iterated to find the items of this type. This is fast and usually not a problem at all. Also checking whether types have a certain property is fast. All parts of this are fast. To get this logic right would just need hooks in many places, and the more I think about them, the less I want to do this feature just for perfection's sake.

The easiest way would be to put the money on the miner when it packs up, but that would take control from the player. Slave Miners are like cats: They have their own mind. You can't just deploy them and let them do nothing when you want to access your money. I tried with my cat. No money.

I don't think this is a real performance issue (unless people start to enable Storage on all units), though everybody will have to pay the penalty for this logic even if they don't use it. This feature is just unreasonably complicated: it is harder to implement than the benefit will be.

(Keeping lists for everything like Units-of-type-X, Construction Yards, all Buildings, units having BombSight, and others can be slower, because items have to be added and deleted from all these lists again. If you lose more time updating the list than by just using a slower algorithm.)

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

New binary:
- Tiberium Damage and Heal will no longer affect units above HoverHeight. Needs confirmation.
- Chain Reaction anims didn't get spawned on the neighbour cell, but on the impact cell.

This week
I want to move forward in the next week, but looking at the 0.5 issues page shows that many things aren't really verified (sometimes just not explicitly, and traces of confirmations can be found here and there). Especially both chain reactions logics freak me out, as it isn't clear who meant what when. Same for mixing Tiberium Explosive and Tiberium Explosion logics.

Features that aren't verified by then will either be removed or left as they are, without the intention to change or fix them later (as long as I didn't acknowlegde there's something missing).

Points of interest
1) Is PipScale=Tiberium working as intended? FS-21 posted on the Storage issue, and I'm inclined to just consider it done if no one objects.

2) I acknowledge that Slave Miners and Storage does not work yet. This is a feature request for the future.

3) If you enable Explodes=yes on an OverlayType (not together with Tiberium=yes), does the overlay only explode if it is damaged by more than OverlayExplodeThreshold= hitpoints? Please bear in mind that Explodes= has nothing to do with Tiberium or the two chain reaction logics.

4) Now the Chain Raction (the effect that potentially affects neighbour cell's containing Tiberium on impact). Can anybody confirm it works, and this happens by using ExplosionWarhead=? This has nothing to do with debris, Explodes or anything, only ChainReaction= and optionlly Tiberium=yes on OverlayType and Warhead. See below for a special test build.

5) Tiberium Chain Reactions: Is this triggered when a TiberiumChainReaction=yes animation hits a cell containing Tiberium? (Do not use Explodes=yes here.) Is Debris.Chance= working or not? Is the damage ExplosionDamage=? Is the warhead ExplosionWarhead=?

6) Does EVA issue an EVA_SilosNeeded note when the Storage feature is used and the silos are (nearly) full? Note that YR does not contain an EVA_SilosNeeded voice, and it has to be added to evamd.ini manually.

7) CloakStop will not work for BalloonHover units in this version. The feature needs some more work. This should be no regression compared to either YR (which had no CloakStop) or TS/FS (which shouldn't support it either).

----
Special test build: Chain Reactions will not spawn INVISO anims, but RING anims instead. If you trigger a Chain Reaction, you should see the move ring animation on the neighbour cells, probably going back and forth. This binary might require the VC++ 2013 runtime files. Maybe this helps to reveal Chain Reaction is happening when set up correctly.

----
Gangster: I read about your Tiberium Damage problem again. I think it is because TS also adds the Strength of the harvester unit to the damage. That's why in YR the explosion doesn't do that much damage. Ares doesn't recreate this yet. I based the implementation on TS/FS 2.03. Maybe I can add a tag that defines how much damage is added to the Tiberium*Power values later.

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m7
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Reporting as requested, flying units are unaffected by tiberium damage or healing.

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AlexB
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! I consider Tiberium Heal and Damage done so far.

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Gangster
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

1) PipScale=Tiberium working. Building shows pips, yellow or blue, depending on harvested types.

3) Overlay with Explodes=yes and Tiberium=no, explodes only of cell recives damage > OverlayExplodeThreshold=
(Unrelated note: setting Tiberium=no makes CellAnim= to be seen through shroud)

4) 5)
If Overlay with ChainReaction=yes and Explodes=no will be hit with animation with TiberiumChainReaction=yes. It will spawn a debri (CRYSTAL1) which flies in random direction. And if this debri hits another tiberium patch, this will trigger an explosion animation at first and also spawning of a lot of RING animations.

However, it assumes, I have to add TiberiumChainReaction=yes to all units' weapon animations (S_CLSN16, S_CLSN22, and so on) to be able to tigger CR.

Debris.Chance= ExplosionDamage= ExplosionWarhead= seems working. I have used high chance probality and high damage values for testing.

6) EVA reports when silos are nearly full. Previous report of not working is because my own typo in code.

About my problem:  I have already customised Tiberium damage dealt to infantry with Damage=, so I could use Power= for harvester explosion. Not sure if any further customisation is needed.

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Last edited by Gangster on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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