Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject:
Organizing a GCC II
Subject description: unofficial anouncement
Greetings!
Recently I've acquired a bunch of CD Keys (LEGIT ones ) for PC - Origin that I know I won't be using, so instead of letting them go to waste, I figure I could organize a competition, and use them as prizes for all y'all.
The competition will be my favorite kind of mapping: Singleplayer! Being a bit more complex, it'll give you much more of an opportunity to shine your skills. Overall, I think the community gets a lot more use out of SP maps, given the state of old C&C multiplayer these days.
I'd like to make it TS/FS only, though I'll take feedback on that.
I'll need two other judges, with proven map-making experience, a good eye for detail, and a positive, fair, committed attitude.
As soon as I get a good gauge on public interest/feedback, and some judges, I'll make the official announcement with dates, guidelines, and all that jazz. This would also be a good time to start brainstorming your kickass map ideas.
The available games are as follows:
Crysis 2 Maximum Edition
Dead Space 3
Medal of Honor
Mirror's Edge
Sims 3 Starter Pack
First prize will get first pick of TWO games. second prize will get the next pick of ONE game, and so forth. If there are less than four entrants, second place may get two games. There's a small chance that more games could be added to the list. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
The first GCC wasn't much of a success due to so many reasons and it was such a shame since the whole competition was so hotly anticipated by the majority of the community. The problem with hosting it now however is that most of the communities single-player mappers have disappeared or are simply busy with other things.
I would host the second official GCC, however, it seems a bit silly since my TS/FS/TI/Whatever doesn't run properly on my new laptop, so I wouldn't be able to play, judge or even participate, unless: We go in favour of a RA2/YR Singleplayer Mapping competition. Though I feel that after the first one had such a poor turnout, it could be better if it's hosted for a different game, plus one thing that currently works in your favor of hosting a new one would be that you have offered to put up prizes for the winners, unlike the first official GCC.
If you'd like to host one for TS, then please feel free, but if people are in favour of a RA2/YR GCC instead, then I'd be happy to host. QUICK_EDIT
Should it be standard TS/FS or RA2/YR? No mods, like TI or MO? I'd like to participate, I just beated Dead Space 2 and I hungry for more _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Even if I don't join (i suck at TS/RA2 mapping), I really would like to see this competition happen.
I miss the old days when each year saw 1 or even multiple contests.
I would also love to see an SHP contest again. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:34 am Post subject:
@ Aro, that's a drag! Is it a matter of time? If so I'm thinking, the GCC had a pretty big timeline (including extensions), perhaps the issue might be resolved by then? or is it one of those "Fvck it, ain't gonna work" type of situations?
@ Aurora if you're joining, we've GOTTA make it TS/FS
@ Errbody what if we open it up to any Westwood C&C, and the mods DTA, TI, or TX? It would give it a great diversity factor, and would be a great way for people to show off their skills catered to their favorite game/mod (it may also help promote those mods a bit ). Since it'll be SP, mission quality would be the overlying factor so it might not impede fair judgement all too much.
It's a crazy idea, but I'm all about trying new stuff to keep things spicy. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
...I like spicy
this thread has caught my attention...however, due to my inactive nature my input will be withheld for now _________________ Kalistia Crestland (2)
In Soviet Russia, grass grows on tiberium! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:42 pm Post subject:
Team Black wrote:
@ Errbody what if we open it up to any Westwood C&C, and the mods DTA, TI, or TX? It would give it a great diversity factor, and would be a great way for people to show off their skills catered to their favorite game/mod (it may also help promote those mods a bit ). Since it'll be SP, mission quality would be the overlying factor so it might not impede fair judgement all too much.
It's a crazy idea, but I'm all about trying new stuff to keep things spicy.
I reckon Generals is not seen as a WW C&C? QUICK_EDIT
why just these 3 mods? With TS being free it would be easy to upload the modded TS (300MB) + the map. unzip and instantly play and judge. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:22 am Post subject:
Aro wrote:
Yeah, and Q45 would just win.
^This. boy I still miss working with the ol' TI crew
Aight so I think we'll leave mods out of it. We'll keep it open to all the WW C&C games (Dawn through Yuri) would be a good way to make the competition interesting, letting mappers use whatever game that their skills are best catered to.
@Ixith you better get in this.. and you better make a map as spicy as that friggin habanaro jelly of yours
@ LKO would you still throw in map if we don't do DTA?
no, sorry. I suck at TS mapping and find it much more time consuming.
Crimsonum wrote:
LKO should definitely do a TD or RA map! I liked his missions, though they were often pretty hard.
I never mapped RA. No TD this time. I'm out of ideas and pretty much made every interesting logic that i wanted to see realized in my few TD maps.
\Edit
vv@reply below: i dislike RA2, so I'll never map for this. RA isn't fun to me. TD see above. TS the only left, which i find too time consuming.
DTA would have been really the only mod/game for which i would have considered making a map. Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:05 pm; edited 3 times in total QUICK_EDIT
I'd like to participate, but finishing TI's campaign is taking all my mapping time at the moment. That, and it's been ages since I last time made a map using just the TS/RA2 assets. _________________
Twisted Insurrection's Lead Campaign Developer QUICK_EDIT
I don't think mods will be an issue as long as everyone is simply limited to submitting only 1 mission. That way someone (that someone only being Q45 in this case I guess) can't just submit a whole campaign he's been working on for months already.
Either that or only allow missions of which the development hasn't started before the competition did. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:33 pm Post subject:
Yeah Q45 will kick our asses if TI is involved, whether or not the map is premade
Q45 wrote:
finishing TI's campaign is taking all my mapping time at the moment
There's still judge spots open if you want one, I've seen you in TI and I know you're a good guy for it. If you're a great mapper who won't be entering the comp, it's def a great circumstance to be a judge! _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
You'll probably have more participants if you do allow mods, plus if the judges do their jobs right (and judge the way the missions were put together, rather than the quality of the graphics used in the mod or other mod-specific things), using a modded or non-modded version of the game shouldn't even make a difference.
Also, if it did make a difference, then using TS or RA2 would make a difference as well (in this case the judges need to be unbiased just the same and only only judge how the missions play, rather than how ugly the RA2 terrain is). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
^^haha
"urgh, an ugly RA2 mission. 0 points."
"oh nice, TS. 5 bonus points for beautiful terrain"
I agree, if you judge objectively, using a mod shouldn't matter.
The judges then of course have to take into account what the mod offers and how well it is used.
e.g.
TI has 220 TerrainTypes for a single theater (trees, mutations etc)
DTA being based on rather simplistic TD art has only 90 TerrainTypes for 3 different theaters (desert, temperate, snow)
So if you map in TI using only 10 different trees, then the map surely sucks, but in DTA this could result already in a quite detailed and well looking map.
But the "Detail" rating of the judge for the map should cover this.
On the most important part, the triggers for a single player map, are all TS/RA2 games and mods almost the same, so comparing them should be no problem. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject:
TS. Terrain. Beautiful.
I laughed.
I have nothing to add to this except that if there would be only a single jury, then it'll suck. That Aurora196 map Aro declared as winner of the CCCIII is broken in balance terms (2 players have no urban combat possibilities) compared to half of the balanced maps submitted. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Borrowed from Aro, I'd say the following rules seem OK for this tournament.
Rules:
1) Contestants may submit one map
2) Maps must be larger than 75x75
3) Maps must be all new, for example, an edit of Operation: Lone Guardian will not be accepted
4) All map theaters are allowed
5) Maps are to be submitted in *.MAP Format
6) Terrain expansions of any kind are not allowed
7) Entries must be submitted to <?> (me?) by the <Day> of <Month> 2013 (00:00GMT)
8 ) No non-map mods are allowed
9) You can provide your own stringtable for the mission
Judging:
Judging will be done by RP, others?
70/70 Will be the highest possible score per judge, Your maps will be judged on the following criteria:
Detail work and LAT placement. (Max: 10 Points)
Map layout (Max: 10 Points)
Map Lighting (Max: 10 Points)
Gameplay (Max: 10 Points)
Triggers and Effects (Max: 20 Points) (increased to 20, because this is what a singleplayer mission is mostly about)
Uniqueness (Max: 10 Points) (eg. no kill object X, win)
Prizes:
Custom rank?
I've got game-keys not CnC related, could throw some in?
Feel free to contribute to more rules, criteria etc. It's just a sketch of the official announcement.
How should mods be deliverd with a map? Download link to the mod, attached zip? _________________
It's not gonna work if mods are allowed. No matter what, it would influence judging to such degree that the competition would be far from fair at that point. Hell, even allowing both TS & RA2 maps is kind of stretching it already. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Cartographer's Call Competition III was also only for RA2/YR stock terrain, no-one bitched about that.
Mods could make it look nice, but if you're a good singleplayer creator you should manage stock TS/FS/RA2/YR units, which makes it even a bigger challenge (fun!).
Also, if you're that much in love with your map/mission, you can always adapt it to your mod. _________________
This will become "best map for the best mod" competition if mods are allowed, no matter how you do the judging.
Or it will get skewed the other way, and a good map for a mod will lose with an average map for an unmodded game, simply because people will give less points to it as it's needing a mod.
Also funny since when the voxel competition was going on, it had a rule about no custom vpls, so it will stay a "voxel competition", not "voxel + vpl competition".
Apparently, mods don't affect maps as much as custom vpls affect voxels?
And it's not only graphics that affect the maps and missions, but how many options and units to choose from you have.
Have some faith into the judges. its a difficult task but can be accomplished. The better the mod the higher the expectation towards it.
WW modded most maps trough the map ini editing. Many WW missions were actually slight mods just think of the RA mission with the tesla tanks and the nuclear mig. A good SP mission does in fact mod the game. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
It's not gonna work if mods are allowed. No matter what, it would influence judging to such degree that the competition would be far from fair at that point. Hell, even allowing both TS & RA2 maps is kind of stretching it already.
Agreed. Allowing mods isn't a wise decision. QUICK_EDIT
Shouldn't allow RA2 either then IMO. The difference between the original game and a total conversion isn't very different from the difference between TS and RA2 after all. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject:
You know, this was over 9000 on idiocy level.
I say shouldn't allow TS then, since TS engine has less options for scripters than RA2. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Right back at you, since you totally missed the point there.
The point is that allowing multiple games has the exact same issues as allowing mods, hence why if these issues are really a problem, only one game should be allowed (and whether this game will be TS or RA2 is totally beside the matter). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject:
Then be it THE game of YR and not a giant mod of RA1. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
How is that the case? YR has greater capability as an engine to be used in missions, it just takes creativity from the user. You don't need to stick to the silly story of YR. QUICK_EDIT
YR only would be horrible.
TS offers so much more options for serious and interesting missions, that YR can just go sit in a corner in shame.
I usually ignore silly TS vs RA2 debates of /ppm/ but you're really testing my patience here. I would love to hear about the wonders of TS mission design. _________________ mentalomega.com Last edited by Speeder on Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
YR only would be horrible.
TS offers so much more options for serious and interesting missions, that YR can just go sit in a corner in shame.
That is the funniest argument I've heard this year.
TS has less map events and actions than YR has (options!), besides that YR has 6 theaters while TS only has 2.
You can make evenly serious and interesting missions in both YR and TS, it's the creator who makes this decision, not the game.
I'm not saying YR 'da best', but stating TS>YR with regards to options is bullocks.
Cut the crap about TS>YR or TS<YR and come to an end, I want to start this GCC. _________________
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject:
gotta disagree with you Bittah; I think familiarity is the key factor. As much as I'd like to include mods in this comp, people have been working with the unmodded westwood game engines for over ten years, and are pretty well accustomed to them. WW engines are the best middle ground, remember it's familiarity not only with the participants, but the judges as well. All ranging from never-played-it-before status, to worked-on-it-from-day-one status.
If a judge is more or less familiar with a mod, it'll likely imbalance their experience.
Thirdly, if the average lurker who wants to simply play one of these maps, he or she can simply drag n drop it without the deterrence of finding, downloading, and installing the associated mod.
I'm sure most people will naturally choose either TS or RA2, but the option is open if someone is ambitious enough to try TD or RA1.
The judges will understand the potential compilations with incorporating multiple engines, and respond appropriately. It's nice to have an even playing field, though I'm more interested with having people enjoy making their submission based on their talents. That combo makes for more participants, and better maps!
As for judges, looks like the best candidates are ^Rampastein and RP. If anyone else is interested in judging, speak now or hold your peace! _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
A few extra scripts doesn't make up for the horrible a)terrain b)lighting c)silliness that is RA2/YR.
It doesn't matter if there's so many awesome and superior logics in YR(hurrdurr) when everything you can do with them ends up dull and uninteresting.
What I'm saying is that TS has much more potential for an atmospheric, detailed, story driven mission than YR, not that TS engine > YR engine.
@Speeder: Train tactics? Firestorm walling? Stealthed surprises? Hostile environment? Strategy-limiting storms? Actual gates? Should I go on? @RP - The only real new theaters are desert/lunar. I dare you to try and make an interesting, complex mission in either of them. _________________ Check out some TF Kane's Wrath action:
Tournament 3rd place. Vs. bikeRushOwnz in tournament. Ladder wars vs. bikeRushOwnz. Last edited by [TiberianFuture] on Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
TS offers so much more options for serious and interesting missions, that YR can just go sit in a corner in shame.
Quote:
A few extra scripts doesn't make up for the horrible a)terrain b)lighting c)silliness that is RA2/YR.
It doesn't matter if there's so many awesome and superior logics in YR(hurrdurr) when everything you can do with them ends up dull and uninteresting.
Wow. No comment. _________________ mentalomega.com QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject:
Eat your words, Annie Oakley! _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Alright then, everyone made their point.
Can we now please get back to business?
It's a shame I cannot poll this topic, otherwise I would've done so.
Who's IN FAVOR of a GCC II for TS/FS and RA2/YR?
Who's AGAINST a GCC II?
As you've seen, either a GCC for TS/FS and RA2/YR or none.
If you think TS or YR has more options, show the jury and create a wonderful singleplayer mission! _________________
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject:
[TiberianFuture] wrote:
@Speeder: Train tactics? Firestorm walling? Stealthed surprises? Hostile environment? Strategy-limiting storms? Actual gates? Should I go on?
These all are in YR already. What a moot list. Just because WW doesn't use them, they're not out of the engine. Okay, train tracks are in TX.
But they're there, you fool. Now go back to your TS cave, and ignore the world. That's a lot easier,. And you guys even say Ares alienates... lol. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
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Organizing a GCC II
) for PC - Origin that I know I won't be using, so instead of letting them go to waste, I figure I could organize a competition, and use them as prizes for all y'all.
