:: Home :: Get Hosted :: PPM FAQ :: Forum FAQ :: Privacy Policy :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::
Do you want to advertise at Project Perfect Mod. Find out how to do it HERE.

The time now is Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:25 pm
All times are UTC + 0
 Forum index » Miscellaneous Forums » Game Chat » Command & Conquer Chat
RA2 TS Comparison??
Moderators: Global Moderators, Offtopic Moderators
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 4 [159 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Author Message
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops... nvm this post.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Yea, add a logic, to fix a logic which is so bonkerz that it was STUPID TO EVEN BE FEATURED.

I indeed don't care for the crater logic, the way it is in vanilla TS. But I think it could potentially be an interesting logic if some alterations are made so that it at least doesn't get in the way of base building.

So it's indeed no must-have logic; I think the main things Ares might still need from TS (if it doesn't have those already) are tiberium damage and veins/veinhole monsters.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Facebook Profile URL
mevitar
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiberium damage/heal is in for few months already. And it was also expanded to make it customizable per resource type.

Veins and veinholes are the ones that are missing, and not sure if there are plans to add them. For that, there are NPatch and NPExt (but not sure how much of it works, as i never used them). Or maybe it was just a test version of NPatch that had it, along with restored Fog of War.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually agree with these, however, I think Ares should occasionally add things that are purely Aesthetic...

Last edited by gistop on Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know about Veins and monsters. The reason the veinhole monster existed in TS was because of the Chemical Missile. (IMO)

It is somethin cool to have some growing, dangerous "resource" moving and destroying oround the map, but will it be used that much by modders, really?

EDDIT:

Not to mention that I don't know if the ARES team thinks it is worth the effort to bring it back.  Only they can tell.  Smile
_________________
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
"If you are loyal to everybody, can you truly be loyal to anybody?"
Ares Documentation: http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtxeQoEM_iVd-F-xUIwleyQ
PillBox20's Red Alert 2 Mod: http://www.moddb.com/mods/pillbox20s-red-alert-2/downloads/pillbox20s-red-alert-2-version-02

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website YouTube User URL Skype Account
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArvinCool wrote:
Come one LKO, are you seriously going to prefer TS over YR+Ares because saves are broken? o_0

we were discussing savegames and their uses. Wink It was a bit offtopic and had nothing to do with my personal modding taste. Which i also did not mentioned in any way in my posts during the savegame discussion.

Then of course comes GD with this crap to attack me personally again.
Graion Dilach wrote:
LKO never bothered to even open a RA2 mix, why would he waste time with opening the Ares manual at all?

I guess even while I treat TS as sucky as he treates RA2, I still care more about the TS mods and played more with any TS mod than he even pretended to read about a RA2 mod.

Also, dullness... since when you guys have 11+ armors? last time I checked you had 7 and it wasn't enough.



Graion Dilach wrote:
Yea, add a logic, to fix a logic which is so bonkerz that it was STUPID TO EVEN BE FEATURED.

Fire SW is all what Ares needs from TS, there's already too much TS crap converted (lol silo logic) that it just proved you TS guys wouldn't even care.

If you wouldn't be so biased, narrow-minded and bitter, you might notice that the idea behind the logics that TS had, where ahead of its time and if they would have been implemented right and completely, they would offer some extremely nice new tactics.

RA2 with the stiff terrain that meant no danger at all, could be ignored completely by the player.
In TS, you had to take care of the terrain at least a little bit. It would have been nice to see this included in a more elaborated way, but removing it from RA2 was a big step in the wrong direction. Or at least a step into a boring tank-rush game.

Interactive terrain is like a 3rd hidden player with which you can interact with. Something that you could also use against an enemy player.
-craters: stop the enemy from building. Big issue is indeed (as mentioned before), that it can't be reverted. Though, if building pavement or some other technique would have provided a player to remove most of the bad crater effects, this could offer great new tactical possibilites. It would be like killing powerplants to shut down base defense, this time "shutting down" building space for a short while.

-tiberium: trap enemy units into it and then let the field explode. What a nice firework and never any tactic in RA2.
A good thing of Ares to put it back in.

-veins: a simple interactive terrain piece giving the game some nice atmosphere. ("Atmosphere", a foreign word for RA2/YR.)


But any explanation why such features would be nice, is a waste of time when facing someone like you.
So ignore this post, or become personal as usual again with your patronising offending behaviour.

@all: sorry for off-topic-ness.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should clarify that I didn't want terrain deformation or ice logic back... :V
_________________
~ Excelsior ~

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with LKO (minus the Graion hate speech,) on this one, because IMO I think terrain deformation would be a great feature. The amount of interesting superweapons that could be created is insane, for example:

I wanted to create a superweapon that would allow me to make a hole open in the world, which would then make all the units and tanks sitting on it to fall in. A few seconds later, it would close back up again.

Personally I think this would make a very interesting superweapon. (both aesthetically and functionally.)

Another thing that this could be useful for would be something under the lines of a bridging vehicle (totally not referencing my voxel page at all.) I think that the ability to make bridges that cross gaps via units would be spectacular. In fact, I just want to have the ability to manipulate terrain as the game goes on.

As a map function, you could make a map that slowly closes in on itself, forcing people to base crawl. Of course this is already possible with map triggers but if you could see the terrain jut out of the ground and just stay there, blocking your path, I think it would be awesome.

One more thing, I really think falling debris would be awesome. (i.e. if you attack a point on the cliff, it would the cliff would collapse, killing all units below.)

Also, a feature that wasn't in TS or YR that I would love is the ability to create overhangs.

EDIT: Actually, do you think overhangs would be possible if you used bridge logic?

That's all I guess -Gistop

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overhangs are possible with Ares.

If Ares had a TS equal (sorry Hyper, you just don't have the time Smile ) I would agree that both have their equal up and downs, but Ares really takes the cake for me. And RA2's lower viewrange makes for easier more detailed graphics (which is obviously where I'm biased).
_________________
"Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything."
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
wrong forum. this is not minecraft.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
If you wouldn't be so biased, narrow-minded and bitter, you might notice that the idea behind the logics that TS had, where ahead of its time and if they would have been implemented right and completely, they would offer some extremely nice new tactics.

RA2 with the stiff terrain that meant no danger at all, could be ignored completely by the player.
In TS, you had to take care of the terrain at least a little bit. It would have been nice to see this included in a more elaborated way, but removing it from RA2 was a big step in the wrong direction. Or at least a step into a boring tank-rush game.

Interactive terrain is like a 3rd hidden player with which you can interact with. Something that you could also use against an enemy player.
-craters: stop the enemy from building. Big issue is indeed (as mentioned before), that it can't be reverted. Though, if building pavement or some other technique would have provided a player to remove most of the bad crater effects, this could offer great new tactical possibilites. It would be like killing powerplants to shut down base defense, this time "shutting down" building space for a short while.


4th tiberium used as debris overlay spawned from any explosion played via Explosion=. It prevents you from building there yet counterable by an ore miner. YR Squared did this. In 2006. There, result achieved with a logic which is in even in TS as well, yet you glorious modder would never even think of it. And FYI, I already planned to do this one because it's funky and via this way I can feature 4th tiberium properly.

It's not like YR has no 4 tibs.

Dullness can be fixed, but your mind can't grasp the fact that there's terrain expansions already to increase depth. And then you wonder why I go ad hominem, when your behaviour just justifies when I point you that modders can easily go into your beloved TS's depth and bring it further without inserting Nod, GDI or Tiberium into it.
_________________



AS Discord server: https://discord.gg/7aM7Hm2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
4th tiberium used as debris overlay spawned from any explosion played via Explosion=. It prevents you from building there yet counterable by an ore miner. YR Squared did this. In 2006. There, result achieved with a logic which is in even in TS as well, yet you glorious modder would never even think of it.

Actually, DTA has exactly this. Explosions of units and structures spawn scrap metal, which is actually the 4th tiberium type and thus can be harvested or be force-fired upon in order to be cleared again. This feature has been present since version 1.11 (released in December of 2011) and it was in fact LKO who implemented it.
And given that LKO avoids RA2/YR mods like the pest, I rather doubt he got the idea from YR Squared.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Facebook Profile URL
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, LKO did the black ore? Wow. Thought it was you. TBH, I realized during I was going to work that this is still a bit bad (since debris will look generic and harvesting time is shared among all tibs) and dummy infantry could work better (no genericness, much finer control, crushability, availability on slopes, etc.) but that needs YR. (pure YR, w/o enhancers)

Still...
Bittah Commander wrote:
LKO avoids RA2/YR mods like the pest


Thank you for actually proving my point. This is exactly why I consider his overbiased posts the pest.
_________________



AS Discord server: https://discord.gg/7aM7Hm2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
In TS, you had to take care of the terrain at least a little bit. It would have been nice to see this included in a more elaborated way, but removing it from RA2 was a big step in the wrong direction. Or at least a step into a boring tank-rush game.


You kinda say it yourself. TS would of have been great if it was what it once wanted to be. And that all goes mostly for SP and atmo that is again relevant more in SP.

RA2 focused on gameplay instead of these totally bonker mechanics that were never properly implemented or refined in the first place. Didn't they even dream about light on night maps incrising accuracy?

I do like TS more and kinda prefer it over RA2 but tbh more because of sentimental feeligns for it than actual rationality. BTW RA2 YR without ares. You seem to dislike RA2 not for what it is but for what it ain't according to what TS should of have been but wasn't either. Kinda bonkers.

And really in a competitive match I'd hate nothing more than losing stuff to mother nature and dumb pathfinding over some hazardous ground than the enemy's doing.

Thinking of it they try to sell us today what TS dreamed of and call it Levolution in FB. Maybe TS really was ahead of its self. Too much perhaps.

GD is full of bias towards himself. Pest incarnate.
_________________
Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Bittah Commander wrote:
LKO avoids RA2/YR mods like the pest


Thank you for actually proving my point. This is exactly why I consider his overbiased posts the pest.

Can you recommend a few good RA2 mods?
I only know D-Day and Rewire as good RA2 mods, which have or at least try to achieve a nice atmosphere, interesting game mechanics, balanced sides and interesting art.

All other RA2 mods (afaik) still use
-ugly vanilla RA2 buildings
-ugly vanilla RA2 terrain
-keep using the cartoonish style that made RA2 already bad
and just add tons of new units.
For me they are just like those simple rules.ini mods we saw 14 years ago, where modders only enabled the unused units. Except this time they made some new voxel for them.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mental Omega
Red Resurrection

These two has more depth than TS ever had. So what if they use RA2 art partly? TI also uses recolored TS art. Not to mention that funny Nod Advanced Power Plant buildup.

I'd also suggest Robot Storm and Project Phantom, but they're still WIP so you can't be satisfied.
_________________



AS Discord server: https://discord.gg/7aM7Hm2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why is TI using Red Alert 2 Animations and certain Structures if you think its so cartoonish... :V

Not to mention some unit graphics as well...
_________________
~ Excelsior ~

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mental Omega: i look at the screenshots and see only my points from above confirmed:
same ugly RA2 buildings, same ugly RA2 terrain, flat terrain maps, just lots of new units following the cartoonish style that made RA2 already bad.
I'll give MO a try when i have time, but when even big promo-screenshots aren't showing anything interesting and the same flaws of RA2, then this isn't something appealing to me.

Red Resurrection: first time i heard of it. Not featured on PPM and since i don't have time to lurk on all the C&C forums, i didn't knew it.
But from the pictures on ModDB, it looks like MO to me and with the ugly RA2 buildings, terrain, and just new cartoonish units.


TI replaces all Nod buildings. It's just not yet finish to replace all of them.
Graion Dilach wrote:
These two has more depth than TS ever had.
what is depth to you? Hundreds of new units with overlapping roles?


Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Then why is TI using Red Alert 2 Animations and certain Structures if you think its so cartoonish... :V

Not to mention some unit graphics as well...

placeholder Wink
Can you name them? Right now i'm only aware of the RA2 nuke explosion that is used by TI in lack of a better, more detailed animation.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give them a run then tell me again how overlapped the roles are. Because visuals are one thing. Sounds (which TS was lolz but TI at least addressed it) are my demand for athmosphere and gameplay depth is damned different compared to plain RA2. In fact, both mods was designed with the principle of that the player does not need useless units and overlap is just as much viable as your Cyborgs overlap with the Cleaver Drone (yer, different usecases, that's my point and I'm not sarcastic here).

If I would be that prejusticed, I would have never touched TI or DTA in the first place. Yet I did and you know that. Maybe not enough times this year because I am busy, but still, Bittah can tell you I did pointed out stuff at DTA.

Ah, and fyi, MO also has campaign. Which is one constant story from three points of view, not the usual "I take my faction to victory and world domination" one.
_________________



AS Discord server: https://discord.gg/7aM7Hm2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd actually need to play them in order to understand the depth of them... However, I do think that a lot of mods seem to make the same mistake as to make a lot of the weapons very similar to one another, and as a result, it makes the game feel a lot less varied.

Personally I think that all weapons (apart from generic tier 1 infantry and basic anti-air) should be for the most part unique to themselves. This actually reminds me of a game I made in gamemaker a while back, (It's improved a lot since the first few iterations...) and it had approx. 50 weapons yet all of them were completely unique to themselves, from looks all the way to functionality.

Sure coding all of the different weapons took ages and ages but in the end, the product was definitely worth my time.

The argument I'm trying to make here is that as it stands at the moment, a lot of (rts) games are just filled with a bunch of similar units that IMO could be changed to add variety.

And this is why I love SupCom. Sure, it looks graphically better, because of the fact that it's 3d, and sure, the artstyle isn't everyone's favourite, but tbh with the mods that it has, there are so many different and varied units (actually even in the base game,) that it makes all the sides feel like they have their own, I don't know how to put it but I guess, "Personality". It really pains me to see all these wonderful looking mods come out, and then when I play them I find that half of the tanks are pretty much the same. For example, the Lasher Tank in MO is literally just a Abrams tank, but now it's got a different damage output and armor... woopdifrickin doo. In SupCom, you'll have two units, that are drastically different, and sure, there are some units that are entirely identical, and sure, the game is slightly unbalanced when unmodded, as artillery can bombard your base and kill you pretty much instantly if you aren't prepared (this is only tier 1 artillery we're talking about here,) but the weapon variety is just so, so much better.

Now, I don't want people to flame about this, so I will say this. Personally, I find that MO and RR both have more variety than your average, because the sides actually seem to have some character to them, but still...

I think our modding community should be more focused on creating interesting weapons that are far from generic. For example, why doesn't someone make a map that's pretty much pitch black, but then, you have a tank called the Fountain of Light that produces Alpha lights around it so that you can find your way around. This tank would also have the functionality to move it's alpha light, and anything entering the alpha light would have an effect attached to them that would cause them to slowly lose health as well as have a slower attack speed for a bit, as if blinded by the light.

This, in my opinion is what needs to happen in order for this genre, the C&C genre, to become alive again. People just got tired of repetition, with the only difference being graphical improvements. I would personally say that the last proper C&C style game was C&C3, and that was popular, my assumption being because the weapon selection was quite varied, and the upgrade system seriously allowed a massive amount of customization, which anyone that like to strategize loved.

If we want to make this genre become alive again, we need to start soon, because as it is, the genre isn't as popular, and in general the RTS genre is slowly dying out.

Welp, this might end up as a wall of text but it should be okay... If I sound like a madman while you read this, it's 2:29 am here... I need sleep XD

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To sum up what else I still want from TS that is not yet available...

Forest Fires
Arcing Barrel Sections
Recoiling Turret Sections
"Weapon" Based Superweapons (EMP Cannon)
Working Bouncy=yes Tag

Uhhh no gistop...

To clarify all the MBTs...

Kappa is Amphibious and can heal more from Backwarp

Cavalier Tank is a Gatling Tank

Bulldog has Flashbangs which lower armor of enemy infantry

Qilin Tank speeds up when near Nuclear Reactors and have 2x Barrels

Rhino Tank can be paradropped.

Jaguar Tank can eject Pilots which can be impromptu suicide units or can pilot Vehicle Sniped Units

Lasher Tank has Ammo Logic its first 6 shots are faster before it needs to reload and end up using the slower "Ammo"

Mantis Tank heals nearby Mantis Tanks on death and are the cheapest

Opus Tank can carry a passenger and the passenger may sometimes provide it a increase in firepower.
_________________
~ Excelsior ~

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to avoid this thread like the plague 'cause I know some kind of shit like this would happen, but something was brought to my attention so it's time to step in.

Is it really necessary to bring Mental Omega or Twisted Insurrection into a "Which is better, RA2 or TS?" argument? Both mods have a similar aim, which is to set out to improve the original games as much as they can by adding new graphics, better sounds, terrain, units and more while adding a new and in depth story to grant the ability for more improvements, right? Not to mention that using mods as an argument in either of your TS or RA2 is better points is pretty pointless as that defeats the point of the topic in the first place. I would also like to point out that Twisted Insurrection and Mental Omega are affiliate projects, so any one vs the other remarks need to stop.

I don't think either game is superior in every way to the other. Tiberian Sun for it's time was a masterpiece, albeit a rushed one, while it has some quirks it was still a brilliant game and still is at this point in time.  Red Alert 2 on the other hand is probably my favorite game ever made, but I have always liked Red Alert 1 over Tiberian Dawn, so it's only inevitable that Red Alert 2 would shine brighter for me than Tiberian Sun ever did.

Because Red Alert 2 was released after Tiberian Sun, the developers had time to reflect on what they did wrong in Tiberian Sun and what they could do to make things right. Some little things make a huge difference such as the sidebar organisation, command bar, mission loading screens, garrison logic, unique units and structures for all factions and much more that I'm not really in the mood for listing at this moment in time, Tiberian Sun doesn't have a lot going for it these days aside from it's storyline and atmosphere (which could have been much better), the reason I stick with it is because I find it more fun to mod, Red Alert 2 is great to mod too, but Tiberian Sun is quicker and easier, if you will.

Anyway, the point I wanted to get across in the first place is that people are always going to have different tastes and nobody will have the exact same thoughts on anything at any given time. LKO likes TS and dislikes RA2, but at the same time needs to appreciate that there are people that like RA2 and dislike (or just simply have no interest in) TS, vice versa applies to Graoin Dilach as well, you two simply don't see eye to eye which makes this sort of debate much more heated than it really needs to be. All of you using "but this game has this and that game doesn't have that" to back up your statements are irrelevant when something is all down to personal taste, this is like a Rap vs Metal debate. Some people like one but hate the other (and maybe some like both), that's just how it is and how it always will be, for music, games, food, life, bla bla bla.

This post ended up being longer than I originally planned, sorry about that, but could you all please stop bringing mods into this argument? Especially turning affiliates against one and other, me and Speeder would appreciate that. It makes things needlessly difficult. Wink

While I'm here: After the release of Public Beta 5 tomorrow, somebody please list me the Red Alert 2 graphics that are used in the mod 'cause I'm no longer aware of any. All graphics used were placeholders until we had the chance to make something ourselves. Apollo recently redid the Nuke impact animation for us so that one is eliminated and was also the only one remaining that I was aware of.
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Last edited by Aro on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:55 am; edited 4 times in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol LKO already realised he lost his point. Now to him its not about TS vs RA2 but against TS mods vs RA2 mods. You should know that RA2 could look just as pretty if not prettier than TI.

Out of arguments after savegames and a bunch of functions that TS never mastered is all he could come up with.

Wanna know what all this gimmicky stuff really is good for? Bugs and disconnect.
_________________
Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wanna know what all this gimmicky stuff really is good for? Bugs and disconnect.


Coming from somebody that uses TibEd religiously, that's a rich statement. Wink
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember seeing a Guardian GI Edit in the mix... I think its the GloboTech Infantry...
_________________
~ Excelsior ~

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OrangeNero wrote:
lol LKO already realised he lost his point. Now to him its not about TS vs RA2 but against TS mods vs RA2 mods. You should know that RA2 could look just as pretty if not prettier than TI.

Read my posts. I gave D-Day and Rewire as good examples for some good RA2 mods.
I also mentioned earlier, i indeed acknowledge the richer modding capabilities of RA2. But at the same time prefer modding TS due to points i mentioned earlier as well.

As for you taking part in this discussion, let me translate a famous german saying:
"When the cake is talking, do the crumbs rest!"
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GloboTech Guardian and Infector are both (very well done) Guardian GI edits, but given how hard creating new infantry is from scratch, I'm pretty sure we can be let off with that, right? #Tongue



Beta 5 also has the White House and Statue of Liberty,  but these aren't just simply transfers, if you compare them to the original RA2 SHP's you will see just how much work went into them.
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Last edited by Aro on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Allied General
General


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't matter if you mod TS or RA2, both engines are full of buggy crap and limitations :p
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID Facebook Profile URL Twitter Channel URL
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, lets switch to OpenRA engine and make this one perfect. Smile
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just enjoy the dam games!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allied General wrote:
Doesn't matter if you mod TS or RA2, both engines are full of buggy crap and limitations :p


QFT.
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aro, please reread my posts again.

When I bash TS, I bash TS alone. But I respect TI and I know what TI done. I know what DTA did, I gave them a go.

LKO sees MO and bah, it's RA2 with new voxels and go on. He sees RedRes, it's "just a mere rules edit" and go on.

That's a difference. And since that difference is what LKO always shows, and such, he thinks RA2 mods are inferior if they aren't a TS conversion and keep the RA2 style. Because Rewire ain't that good (recreation ain't involve creativity, then ROS, since ROS stuff is different and not just a remake), but blargh. I bring examples and I get the flak for adding such to reveal the point.

Due to this above, I just ignore LKO's work in the projects he's involved. Because of his narrow-minded POV. When I see he gives a credit to RA2 modding where deserved, now we'll be fine.
_________________



AS Discord server: https://discord.gg/7aM7Hm2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot ROS. This one is indeed another nice mod. Especially since it avoids as good as possible voxel and uses SHPs instead which give this mod a much more "round" appearance, as all assets share the same style.


Graion Dilach wrote:
he thinks RA2 mods are inferior if they aren't a TS conversion and keep the RA2 style.

wrong. From D-Day, Rewire and RoS only 2 belong to the tiberium universe. #Tongue
The problem with MO and RR is, that they share on the first sight the same aspects that made RA2/YR bad. If they change the ugly graphics (buildings, terrain) into nice ones, get rid of the cartoonish style, then these would be definitely a lot more appealing to me. But right now, i see too much of ugly RA2 in them.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion, I didn't say that you were hating on TI but rather that you and LKO both have hefty dislikes towards the opposite games and don't see eye to eye. I'm just making a general statement that there is no need to bring mods into a vanilla game vs vanilla game debate. I'm not siding with anybody as I have my own views. Wink

Both of you are veteran modders and thus understand the amount of work involved in those as large as TI & MO, so even disliking the game doesn't mean you shouldn't acknowledge the effort put into mods as you basicallystated yourself, Graion. LKO, I'm sure you also appreciate what I'm trying to say here, basically saying that all RA2 mods are unappealing because you dislike RA2 can be taken the wrong way by RA2 moders, but I'm sure you don't mean to convey such a message, right?
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Last edited by Aro on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think LKO just likes brown too much.

MO definitely isn't as bright as RA2 and I'm sure Speeder would've replaced all building art if it were possible, but it isn't. YOU know how difficult that is. Personally with my own mod I wanted to keep it colourful and bright because it was RA2 I was modding and find that every mod attempting to darken the game is boring. #Tongue  I also personally love the structure art.
_________________
TAK02 wrote:
Screw AttachEffect. Can't think of any use for it.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Skype Account
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said,  Bolt. I also like RA2's structures. The only thing I really dislike myself is the temperate terrain. So effortless.
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The problem with MO and RR is, that they share on the first sight the same aspects that made RA2/YR bad. If they change the ugly graphics (buildings, terrain) into nice ones, get rid of the cartoonish style, then these would be definitely a lot more appealing to me. But right now, i see too much of ugly RA2 in them.

Ugly in your eyes doesn't mean ugly for everyone. While you (and I as well) dislike the more colorful and brighter style of RA2, the people behind those mods and MO's countless fans definitely like them. While it's alright that those mods aren't that appealing to you because of their graphical style, I think you're going too aggressive by stating that their work is ugly. In other words, their graphical style isn't a problem for most people, and definitely not a problem for the mods themselves.

Although from what I can tell, this topic was meant to be a modding TS vs modding RA2 debate, focusing on the games' moddability and such; what can be done with the games and which one a new modder should pick. Mods already made for these games shouldn't be included in the discussion IMO.

I still prefer TS because of all the points made; freeware, veins, saved games, global variables, better performance, smaller tiles.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message ModDB Profile ID Facebook Profile URL
RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
LKO sees MO and bah, it's RA2 with new voxels


Isn't that the entire point of MO?

Yuri's Revenge - except balanced.

So for all intents and purposes, MO should indeed feel like RA2 with new voxels.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
To clarify all the MBTs...

Kappa is Amphibious and can heal more from Backwarp

Cavalier Tank is a Gatling Tank

Bulldog has Flashbangs which lower armor of enemy infantry

Qilin Tank speeds up when near Nuclear Reactors and have 2x Barrels

Rhino Tank can be paradropped.

Jaguar Tank can eject Pilots which can be impromptu suicide units or can pilot Vehicle Sniped Units

Lasher Tank has Ammo Logic its first 6 shots are faster before it needs to reload and end up using the slower "Ammo"

Mantis Tank heals nearby Mantis Tanks on death and are the cheapest

Opus Tank can carry a passenger and the passenger may sometimes provide it a increase in firepower.


Yes, sure they seem different, but what are they all? As far as I can tell it's minor attack speed and damage modifications all the way across the board. Why can't we make something that's so different from everything else it is immediately recognized as different? Why do we need to stick to things like having minor attack speed and damage changes?


ALSO: didn't Kenosis do something with forest fire's at some point? I believe it's over myah: http://www.moddb.com/mods/mklab/videos/how-to-deal-with-enemies-hidden-in-the-forest2#imagebox

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gistop wrote:

ALSO: didn't Kenosis do something with forest fire's at some point? I believe it's over myah: http://www.moddb.com/mods/mklab/videos/how-to-deal-with-enemies-hidden-in-the-forest2#imagebox


DAS IT MANE

420 BLAZE THOSE TREES MON

On a serious note, maybe a bit more powerful than I remember from TS, but it's good to see good ol' forest fires are still possible.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

idk , it might've been done with Gear Zero tho (a sort of game expansion project that Kenosis was the creative director(or something) for.) It was sadly never released, and the reason I say sadly is because some of the features were pretty damn neat.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gistop wrote:
Yes, sure they seem different, but what are they all? As far as I can tell it's minor attack speed and damage modifications all the way across the board. Why can't we make something that's so different from everything else it is immediately recognized as different? Why do we need to stick to things like having minor attack speed and damage changes?


Ehm RA2 is full with such crazy stuff. Take 9 out of 10 Yuri units for example. Magnetron lifting stuff so that gattling tanks fire on it then lets it go and crashkill it. Maybe you wanna change your game to RA3 I heard there's an artillery unit firing attack bears at the enemy.

RA2 is all about creating the weirdest and craziest stuff imaginable to hurt your enemy. The good ol tank is just there so that its not completely freaked out. lets be honest Tanks rock.

LKO you should check out Doom Desire. The color style is the opposite of what TI went for but damn is it beautiful. Orange ground as if on Mars with Alien factions and blue Tiberium. Totally Rad totally loving it. No offense but I was never a fan of TI art style dark and gritty but beautiful too in its way.

Aro you'd be surprised the mod is very stable. A bunch of FS missions crash it atm but apart from that solid. Funny coincidence its gonna be ready around the same time that TI comes out. Totally didn't plan this xD
I could take of TibEd as LKO does of TS. Oh what it could have been if it was what it wanted to be... but I'll spare you the story.

Really thrilled what OpenRA is gonna change in the future.
_________________
Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Aro you'd be surprised the mod is very stable. A bunch of FS missions crash it atm but apart from that solid. Funny coincidence its gonna be ready around the same time that TI comes out. Totally didn't plan this xD


Hey, if it works for you then I'm not somebody to tell you otherwise. Go forth. #Tongue
_________________
I no longer work on Twisted Insurrection or take part in community discussions. Any messages directed towards myself will go unanswered.
Please direct any queries towards the other team members.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I have this crazy idea.

Concrete is overlay. Tiberium veins are overlay. Right? I haven't modded C&C in years so yeah.

Veinholes can grow overlay on the map.

If veinhole logic gets put in Ares, wouldn't it be possible for players to build structures that spawn overlay?

Wouldn't it be possible to make the construction yard spawn concrete around itself, slowly?

If that's possible, the complaint about deformable terrain ruining buildings space is completely irrelevant. Because your base will never turn in a crater.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then the entire world gets turned into Concrete. Thus why did they even bother using Sonic Weapons to shatter unwanted Tiberium.  Laughing
_________________
~ Excelsior ~

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
And then the entire world gets turned into Concrete. Thus why did they even bother using Sonic Weapons to shatter unwanted Tiberium.  Laughing


Well, as far as I know, Vein logic is completely missing in RA2/YR. So it'll have to be remade anyway. If the Ares team has to completely make new code to get Vein logic working, they could just as easily put range limit on it.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatsInTheWalls wrote:
Vein logic is completely missing in RA2/YR. So it'll have to be remade anyway.


Laughing that wording. There is nothing that has to be done regarding Veins. It would have as much priority as f.e. Generals's Pilot logic, where infantry could transfer their veterancy level to units they enter in.

It can be requested and such but if you do think Ares must recreate all the TS logics, you're way over your head.
_________________



AS Discord server: https://discord.gg/7aM7Hm2

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not requesting anything.

I'm just brainstorming crazy things. It would work right? Vein logic is just something to spawn overlay onto the map.

Couldn't that be used to build bridges too?
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pavement (concrete) is terrain actually; not overlay.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Facebook Profile URL
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatsInTheWalls wrote:
Couldn't that be used to build bridges too?

Overlays can only be build on terrain that has Track=1% or higher (in other words, passable terrain).
You would have to make water passable for tracked vehicles which then surely causes other bad sideeffects, even if you make all tracked vehicles use wheeled instead.

RatsInTheWalls wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to make the construction yard spawn concrete around itself, slowly?

interesting idea and it would be indeed very gameplay friendly for the player, as he doesn't has to care about it. (like startcraft Zerg creep)

But, as Bittah said, concrete is terrain.
You can't place terrain and have a building at the same time. When placed, the building is simply ignored and only the ToTile key is used.

A possible Ares feature request could be:
Make ToTile work parallel to the building, so when you build it, both are placed. The building and the changed terrain.
In addition you would need a key TileFoundation= which lets you set the area for the placed tile, independent from the building foundation.
And you would need a key ToTileOnly=yes/no which allows you place the tile only, without the building (like it is implemented in vanilla TS/RA2)
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gistop
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welp, if no one's going to add it to Ares, I guess it's time to learn C++ #Tongue

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 4 [159 Posts] Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Miscellaneous Forums » Game Chat » Command & Conquer Chat
Jump to:  
Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiggShare on RedditShare on PInterestShare on Del.icio.usShare on Stumble Upon
Quick Reply
Username:


If you are visually impaired or cannot otherwise answer the challenges below please contact the Administrator for help.


Write only one of the following words: Brotherhood, unity, peace! 

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

Wildcard SSL Certificates
[ Time: 0.3268s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0353s) ][ Debug on ]