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RA2: Frontlines
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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify about the Sea Scorpion first iteration. It was called the Sea Wolf. It was for all intent and purposes... basically the IFV's Default Rockets on the Water with its release state as a highly mobile unit. Just instead of Flak it used Missiles. Somewhere during development it was redesigned to be armed with the oversized flak cannon we all know and see.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PillBox20 wrote:
GenesisAria wrote:
...but the bigger issue is, what do i replace the sea scorpion with?...
How about this:
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Hydrofoil_%28Red_Alert_2%29
that's fantastic! now where do i get the voxel? (ps it's not very hydrofoil in the voxel XD) or a lot of the pre-release stuff really...

Millennium wrote:
What a waste of resources!
THIS IS THE USA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

Millennium wrote:
maybe you can give the Dreadnought an anti-aircraft capability and make it a more generic "missile cruiser" (missile cruisers are a primarily Soviet/Russian class of warship, and the Dreadnought is a close proxy). With some clever editing, you could make a decent illusion of the Dreadnought firing the same kinds of missiles vs both air and ground targets.
Haha, makes me think of those homing v3's and dread missiles kenosis was cooking up...

but anyways, the point is to have some basic AA(+AG?) boats that both sov factions could potentially have... although technically the legion faction wouldn't really need AA, cuz the tug boats are meant for surprise attacks, i'll prob make them not show up on radar (unless i can make them appear as neutral units on radar) and the rest is sub....  so technically it's the tech union that needs AA for the dreads and tesla boats...


GenesisAria wrote:
Well, i totally clued into how long i've been procrastinating something i really want to do...
I was re-reading the Negima manga a while back but took a break at an arc end to catch up on shows for the next season, but then i randomly found the inclination to start modding RA2, and i just kept going lol.
The only thing i love more than the negima manga is my own story i'm writing, and when i get to the good parts i'm in it till it's done...

With that said i'm going to be taking a break from this, prob a couple weeks or so, just until i finish re-reading the manga, then i'll make sure i get myself to come back to doing this.

(nothing worse than that half-assing where you set something down and never manage to get back to it haha)
Again, with all of that said, i'm still in the market for stuff, especially Japanese Base buildings i especially need before i can start laying the foundations of the faction so i can start designing units and so on...

I got a little notepad i'm scribbling down changes i'll be doing when i get back to it haha.
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Last edited by GenesisAria on Sat May 02, 2015 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could give them just some sort of gunboat with an autocannon. It's generic enough to work for any faction. In my mod, the Allied Destroyer uses the (mentioned above) Bofors 40mm in a dual mount, plus depth charges, which means it can engage air, ground and sub-surface opponents. The Soviet land-based anti-air unit are all autocannons (Tunguska (formerly Shilka) for mobile AA and a stationary autocannon emplacement). Maybe this will be useful for you in some way.

Again, you could also use missiles. Or maybe a tesla-based air defense - a coil shooting bolts into the air _seems_ right to me, but I think it's not very accurate since aircraft aren't grounded and hence can't be the target of discharges, since air has such a bad conductivity. But I'm not sure about the physics behind that and you might know better about that yourself.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember i'm limited to whatever i can find in voxels for the most part... i don't intend on making any voxels at this time. (although i have complete freedom over ability to swapping chassis and turrets)
Edit: although i could probably just go and erase that stupid flak cannon off the sea scorpion and put some kind of turret there...

Dude, tesla wouldn't work against air.  Unless the target is also charged, it must find ground (aka opposite charge) to arc, otherwise it won't even do damage.  Think of lightning.

Although i'm not going for super realism, that's jumping the shark a bit.

I'd go air to air tesla on a baloon hovering thing, like a lightning kirov or something (assuming it fires something first to charge the target) but not ground to air.

Also, with that tesla cruiser, i almost want to name it "The Eldridge" lol....

...i should consider having mobile tesla units work with ammo... And using those number pips.  So they can burst a bunch, but need regeneration time... Like how Earth2150 handled energy weapons. (slow firing when not given charge up time)
...if only there were hp types (electrical systems, temperature...) <=though i'm clearly moding the wrong game for that stuff haha.
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Last edited by GenesisAria on Sat May 02, 2015 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why you are not making voxels yourself?
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a lot of work, and i won't just go making stuff until i have things i really want and know nobody's made.  Also, without having 3d models to work with, i ain't gonna do well with anything beyond simple voxelling.
That stuff is for when i'm really bringing things together... at the moment i'm just sprawling out before thinking about wrapping up, see?  And having ugly voxels makes me not wanna work on them and looks bad in screenshots.

Come japan faction though, i do see myself recolouring a lot of things to be white/remap or white/vermillion (not gonna put flags on everything, cuz then i'd have to put them on everything!)

Last edited by GenesisAria on Sat May 02, 2015 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes you gotta sacrifice logic just for rule of cool imo.

I have a freaking Tesla Anti-Air Tank and Giant Mutant Insects for a planned faction. At some point you gotta draw the line of ignoring real life logic. You're adding a so-called Magic Science Japan Faction why don't you so at some part you're already throwing logic away.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol.

You're not even willing to try. Waiting for others because... I'd guess you consider yourself awesome, but you're just ztyping retarded asking to be spoonfed all the time. Atleast assetwise you should start doing your own, but nah.

FEED ME ASSETS. FEED ME CODE. FEED ME KNOWLEDGE. ACCEPT THAT I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING JUST SHITTING WORDS.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Sometimes you gotta sacrifice logic just for rule of cool imo.

I have a freaking Tesla Anti-Air Tank and Giant Mutant Insects for a planned faction. At some point you gotta draw the line of ignoring real life logic. You're adding a so-called Magic Science Japan Faction why don't you so at some part you're already throwing logic away.
Depends what you define as cool. giant mutant insects aren't cool to me.
Tesla AA is a bit i guess but it doesn't agree with me for some reason...  it's just a personal thing there.

Prism, Chrono, Iron Curtain, weaponized electricity, are already going a fair bit outside logic, but still sensible in a way.  Well not iron curtain, but hey, it's trademark red alert.
They also work because of tactical application.  Which is what i'm after; making stuff work together and so on to keep the tactics and strategy going and not just simplifying it down to  cool units with cool guns, see what i'm saying?  I try to make all units have at least one tactical/strategic benefit: for example the simple phalanx mlrs, it can hover over water and shoot at air.  Dogs garrisoning: they're protected, and they bark to make people prone and slow down.  Even that stupid civilian and animal shit, some of it has the advantage of not being automatically targeted (even if commander is familiar with by experience, the troops don't expect a school bus to unload chrono legionnaires or ivans at first).
Even if i do something like AA tesla, there'd have to be consistency, a reason why it's AA, or else i find myself needing to add AA to tesla coils and paris tower... but that'd be way too overpowered the point in the advanced base defences is that they -don't- shoot at air.

Magic is acceptable in a way because it's bound within it's own logics.  Japan faction may not even have this anyways.  The only reason i consider supernatural stuff there is because it's uncommon in RA2 mods, and it's been commented on multiple times, so i figured maybe give it a shot, that's the only reason (and it might be easier to design depending on what assets i can get, plus you can get creative with tactics and comboing things).  I still think it'd fit better if i made a militaresque faction though.

Graion Dilach wrote:
You're not even willing to try. Waiting for others because... I'd guess you consider yourself awesome, but you're just ztyping retarded asking to be spoonfed all the time. Atleast assetwise you should start doing your own, but nah.
I do believe i said "at this time" aka not right now, not that i wouldn't.  I know what i can and can't do, trying is not a factor.  I could spend weeks making the perfect voxel if i really wanted to, but it's not worth it at this time.  If it already exists then i'd rather take advantage of it.

Oh yeah, and i'd rather use and appreciate things from those who're good at it (if they're willing to share) than make my own if i know they'll do a better job.  All i've done is ask/request, there's no demanding here.  If it doesn't happen then that sucks for me.  But i definitely appreciate any assistance or assets people give me or let me use.  Just as i appreciate any help you've given me... Just don't expect me to be good at showing it.  I show my appreciation by making full use of the benefit and not tossing it aside.
We just have notably different outlooks on life.

Also, i don't exactly plan to sacrifice all my time to modding... I do have other things i need to or would like to do in my day as well lol.  That's why i still haven't finished that nuke animation.  It's unfair of you to expect me or anyone else to do so either.

ps: I don't consider myself awesome outside of the areas I am awesome.  Not many of those areas are applicable to C&C modding unfortunately.  So no, i ask about things because i'm fresh into this and just asking basic questions.  Thus is am not awesome at modding (yet).
Don't forget the golden rule: rookies or children may not have the experience or expertise, but thy can still tell you things you never thought of sometimes.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enough talking ... go do it and then decide if you like it.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, lightning does strike aircraft sometimes, so there must be something going on here, even though it's not grounded

maybe a portable "lightning storm invoker" as an AA defense, athough that, of course, would leave the territory of Tesla technology and be Allied WC tech.

Or, if your Soviets have psionics or psychotronics (ie all the Yuri stuff), then why not make that work against aircraft? I never got the point of why MC doesn't work against air (beyond the whole game mechanic issue of AirportBound, but I mean like, fluff-wise). Psychotronic weapons could be terrible anti-aircraft weapons. MC the pilot or make his brain boil in mid-air (KillDriver wh!). Sure it'd be a little OP, but you can nerf that with slow ROF or so.

And the Iron Curtain is something about increasing the electromagnetic force or something.
Either way, I think there is a difference between speculative fiction and purely counterfactual fiction - how electricity works and acts is pretty well known, but nobody knows if there will not eventually be some sort of force-field technology (apparently it's already being realized on a very small scale).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_field_(fiction)#Scientific_research
...quite advanced already! Especially the one by Boeing.
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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that aircraft get damaged by lighting because of the great heat and power the lighting holds in it. A plane can't fly with fried computers, right?


Spoiler Alert! PillBox20's logic!
I always tought that the iron curtain is some sort of anti-matter force/dark matter or something like that. Like a force so strong that can't be penetrated by small objects (projectiles, infantry) just can't withstand the preasure of that force.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yes, I mean like, it makes sense lightning would _damage_ aircraft IF it hits, but Genesis was saying aircraft can't be hit by it because it has no electric charge
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aircraft don't get 'hit' by lightning.  The lightning alters it's course (because of conductivity) and bounces off the aircraft when going from one charge to the other.  Any damage done is only overpowering whatever circuitry that can be jumped to from the hull (or fuel), otherwise the only damage is external heat.  (think of how cars don't tend to get struck by lightning, because of the tires being insulators).. So yes, for maximum realism, tesla would pilot kill on tanks, but not harm wheeled vehicles (unless you fired a net like a projectile taser), and be ineffective against aircraft... You'd be able to make it contact the aircraft but not enough to do anything worthwhile. A realistically applied tesla would be cool for strategy and stuff for less widely used stuff, but would be a bit overpowering to be within standard arsenal of soviet tech.  (ofc it wouldn't be as overpowering if there was only a %chance to kill pilot)
(ps: Even really high power electricity is surprisingly non-lethal if the pathway the electricity takes through your body misses your heart.  Hence why people can survive being struck by lightning.)

PillBox20 wrote:
Spoiler Alert! PillBox20's logic!
I always tought that the iron curtain is some sort of anti-matter force/dark matter or something like that. Like a force so strong that can't be penetrated by small objects (projectiles, infantry) just can't withstand the preasure of that force.
more like projected electromagnetic barrier of high potency (such things exist today, but primarily only effective at detonating missiles before impact and redirecting shockwave force)...  If it was antimatter..... ohhh man.  Well what antimatter does is essentially antiparticles meet standard particles and upon contact they annihilate, positive and negative collide and result in neutral, all of the energy that was is released in a 1:1 ratio, ie flash of radiation.  This is so efficient that even fission-fusion explosions are dwarfed by it.  And it's immensely scary because it cannot contact -any- matter without annihilating with it. Meaning you need a perfect vacuum container using only electromagnetic fields to suspend it in the middle.  (you're screwed if there's a power outage... or -cough- emp.)

So i guess it's sensible in that respect, being an EM field... But certainly not any kind of non-standard matter. (ps: it's easier to resist/counter the force of a larger object than it is a smaller one.  think penetration factor)
The chrono (pseudo-time travel) teleportation is potentially plausible within quantum physics, but not the full time machine.

Physics is cool stuff Smile

G-E wrote:
Enough talking ... go do it and then decide if you like it.
lol, i'm just enjoying talking about stuff for now, cuz i'm not working on my mod right now.  So i'm just thinking "maybe this" "what if that"...  Thinking about design theory a bit.

edit:
oh look, they did add percentile values! sweet! http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/new/killingdrivers.html i guess i'm going to have to make tesla that kills drivers sometimes... make those friggin conscripts useful for something... also i should apply that driver killing to radiation as well maybe...
...hmm, well they added below percent, but not dice roll chance to kill...
but that'll offset the double-charged prism a bit, using it on tesla for below 40% or something
but yeah, that's a more interesting method of taking vehicles than straight up mind control.

edit2: to make the driver killing more of a chance thing, i could make the driver kill aspect at a very low % so that often times it'll overshoot it by damage, but if it has some damage already or the right amount of starting hp, it can be hit to driver kill...  although the downside of that is that the tank you wanna drive will be almost dead (good thing i'm gonna be giving sovs the nod repair vehicle)
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have driver-killing radiation, it never made much sense to me that it would cause tanks to explode. Unfortunately, you can't have that effect on radiation from cells, only on direct radiation from weapons.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a warhead for the cell radiation?  Or did you try that?
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's RadSite; KillDriver doesn't seem to work from it, but do try it out yourself, maybe I missed something.
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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(about voxels)

At least you can start with simple things. Since now you are not working on your mod with coding and stuff, you can try edditing  the sentry gun for example.

Change some colors, make it smaller, cut it on half. Just experiment.

This will be useful later, when you start making the voxels you want. Smile

I, for example started with edditing the Humvee from RA2 and added a radar dish on it (or something close to that, maybe it was a heat ray dish). Then I made a small WW2 like Goliath remote controled bot with dish on it. After that I made this:
http://www.ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=37974&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult

With some info from Mig Eater and Agent Z. Smile


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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason i'm not working on it for now is not because i don't wanna do code, it's because i have other things i wish to do with my time more for now. Recolouring voxels is time, just as ini scripting is...

I've already done voxel edits for the sentry turret and cow turret to get rid of their 'neck' and stuff like that...  Filling in the balls on the tesla cruiser to get rid of the "see through pixels" that it was having...  It's easy enough to do, just takes time.

And as as always, my weakness is little details on things like vehicles or ships... Without knowing the functions of every little bit and plate on the external, i can't just go and greeble it... my brain doesn't work that way haha.
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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voxeling is pretty much Pixel Art on a 3D Plane with a 256-color palette limitation. I'm often more stumped in writing stuff that can encompass a wall of text than being able to finish new graphical stuff. The other day I had just finished revoxelling my Chaos Drone. After a while you will improve on your skills and you'll be able to voxel much more quickly. Mostly though the reason you'd only get slowed down on voxelling is when you're trying to grasp the overall scale and getting disoriented early on in on what plane you're currently editing. (X,Y,Z)

This voxel I mentioned I had done a day before would have taken me around 5-6 hrs back when i started I could actually finish now in an hour or so.


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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm sometimes surprised how simple some voxels are that look great in-game. It's really very few pixels, it looks almost like a sketch on close-up - yet they look very convincing and detailed in-game.
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Nolt
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Yes, I'm sometimes surprised how simple some voxels are that look great in-game. It's really very few pixels, it looks almost like a sketch on close-up - yet they look very convincing and detailed in-game.

Yup, and if you try to make too many details on a vxl, they can't even be seen.


Well Aria, if voxel making takes a ton of time, why don't you try to make models instead? you just have to make some objects and place them properly on the scene, and apply textures, with the right template you can't make something ugly.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, i've stated i have no problems actually voxelling, i understood it completely the moment i opened the program (even before).  The limitation is the designs themselves.  I'm not good at making things from scratch... I'm good at putting pieces of things together to make a greater whole.  iono, maybe the greeble reference went over ur head, but my not wanting to do it is because despite my ablity to manipulate them, i don't have the imagination in the context of modelling to think up little details and stuff in order to meet my own standards.  I don't mesh well with pixel art. Dimensional orientation is my strong suit. I'm the type who'd get used to zero-g in a heartbeat. (i've played plenty of games without up and down, getting bearings/perspective is the easy part)... So that is not a setback at all.

Millennium wrote:
Yes, I'm sometimes surprised how simple some voxels are that look great in-game. It's really very few pixels, it looks almost like a sketch on close-up - yet they look very convincing and detailed in-game.
I have to disagree with that.  I've seen a hell a lot of voxels way beneath a standard i'd accept.  I'd rather scrap the unit if i couldn't get or make a good enough image for it.

Nolt wrote:
Well Aria, if voxel making takes a ton of time, why don't you try to make models instead? you just have to make some objects and place them properly on the scene, and apply textures, with the right template you can't make something ugly.
modelling takes even more time and know-how, and the need to learn entirely new programs. At least VXLSE is as simple as paint, it's not loaded with bazillions of features of technicalities that you're supposed to know.  I've played with blender and 3dsmax before and it's not my forte.  I mean i'd learn it if i had a larger reason that i'd want to learn that, but not for hobby projects.

If it's my own work, i have to justify every little detail, and that takes immense amount of time in contemplation.  If it's someone else's design i can be just like "hey that looks cool, i'll go with that" and maybe justify some of it's details myself.  I like other peoples' works, i like giving my interpretation on other people's designs, i like working with other people.  I like my own works too, but i like my own works in specific contexts for specific reasons (my sky fortress ra3 map, my story, yadda yadda).  Actually speaking of that sky fortress map, for a comparative example; i haven't worked on that for ages, largely because i can't think of what to do with the city blocks and the docks at the front, i can finish it all up and make it look all pretty, but just deciding how to lay it out, what buildings to put where, is impossible for me lol.  I have an excellent eye for what looks good, and when i'm within a zone of trial and error until looking good then sure i can do that, but going from the beginning is eek.  (plus you need permission and all that hassle if you wanna just improve someone else's voxel for any kind of release, it's all so restricting . . . and the irony that the copyrighted materials don't count as "other peoples work they put hours into" DX)  Anyways, rambling on a bit...

I don't need anyone to talk me into it, i'll get to doing it whenever i have a clear and specific enough image of something specific i want.  At the moment there isn't enough brought together where there are any of those holes that need the perfect thing to fill them in...
I'm just not doing it right now.  I'm on the inspiration hunt at the moment.  I'm good at coming up with things, but still need good inspiration; pieces to work with.  I'm not entirely sure what i want.  (hence why i'm kinda experimenting at the moment, and why i can't even decide whether to make a techy,magic,or magic/tech, or magitech, or to make an army or a hero unit faction or what for japan. all i got is the basic idea and some simple guidelines for each path)

This has gone way out of proportion lol.      Self-confidence is a non-factor here.
I just wish to make one good mod and move on.
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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, my StuG (most of my voxels) are not from scratch. Very Happy
I have eddited game voxels only. No public voxels in my mod, now.

The only voxels I have made from scratch recently are few projectiles and I think the rottors for my Orca Gunship. lol
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GenesisAria wrote:
I just wish to make one good mod and move on.


If you maintain this ignorant retard POV, then you will never make one. Period.

Modding is an art, and so far you did nothing in that. Experiments are what pushes one forward to get a quality mod but you demand to be spoonfed instead.

Failures are needed. You can't learn better than realizing your own mistakes. It might be tedious, but dedication is required to run a good mod. You can be lazy... but then accept your place.

Hell, I wouldn't be anywhere if I'd stopped at my first IE or not picking up voxelling/Photoshop/voiceacting/whatnot.

You're not learning. You're not even willing to dedicate. Yet you demand assets, code, help. A request of an entire faction is just a better-written demand afterall.

You're just a useless burden, wasted space in this database. If you really want to improve, then cut out your bullshit excuses and stop being an attention whore and start modding.
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hxazgalor
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Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has suddenly taken quite a turn...

I must say this is quite an interesting set of ideas you have. Keep up the good work and take your time with getting the mod ready to roll out.

At least you've got ideas you wanna incorporate into RA2, and while it might seem to be a little too "service-packey" (for lack of a better term), it's a good start. Who knows, it might just turn out to be something special in the end Smile

I have ideas of my own as well, but it's more of a re-imagining of the aftermath of the Psychic Dominator Disaster (and also very, very "service packey", I must admit #Tongue )

In any case, my kudos to you GenesisAria Very Happy
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^i like this guy haha.

PillBox20 wrote:
For the record, my StuG (most of my voxels) are not from scratch. Very Happy
I have eddited game voxels only. No public voxels in my mod, now.

The only voxels I have made from scratch recently are few projectiles and I think the rottors for my Orca Gunship. lol
haha, well we'll see what i manage to come up wth when i do get around to voxelling.

Graion Dilach wrote:
If you maintain this ignorant retard POV, then you will never make one. Period.
In your opinion, but mine differs, and my opinions never have flawed logic (because i make sure they don't, double check to avoid emotional blindness).  It sounds to me like you just consider me a target to let off steam too, difference is, i got no steam to let off... I wonder why.

Graion Dilach wrote:
Modding is an art, and so far you did nothing in that.
Well no shit it's an art, and yes i've done plenty towards that. I take art seriously to make it feel right.  Even if it doesn't look any special, it feels good to play, even at this early stage.  You're passing judgement based on limited exposure to what i've done and what my aspirations are... And you're passing judgements based on what -you- think a mod should be.  That's Unfair.

Graion Dilach wrote:
Failures are needed. You can't learn better than realizing your own mistakes.
No they're not.  You can learn just as well if not better by analyzing other people's mistakes/solutions.

Graion Dilach wrote:
Hell, I wouldn't be anywhere if I'd stopped at my first IE or not picking up voxelling/Photoshop/voiceacting/whatnot.
You're taking this way too seriously.  Someone can walk my and make a masterpiece without dedicating a chunk of their life to it, as long as they understand the workings of it.  It's happened plenty of times in the real world.

Graion Dilach wrote:
You're not learning. You're not even willing to dedicate. Yet you demand assets, code, help. A request of an entire faction is just a better-written demand afterall.
I don't learn skills, i have them and fine tune or can't fine tune them.  And for knowledge it doesn't matter where the hell you learn it from, if it's from your own efforts, or if it's from someone else is completely irrelevant. And no, you're right, i really am not willing to dedicate.  Not everyone has loads of time to figure out a modelling program just because joe schmo says i should do it myself.  I'm not gonna give up on it, but no i'm definitely not dedicating to it.  It's a hobby project, not a portfolio project, not something i plan to trademark and make money off of... I'm doing this because i want to, and i want to share something i'm working on.  All i'm after is buildings, cuz there's no way i'm gonna model a bunch of buildings in a 3d program to par the stock ones without months of work.  I wish for someone to work with me and potentially have a good time creating something decent.  Almost all notably successful and well designed projects, of any kind, are accomplished by teams, not individuals.  The individual can miss too many things.
A request is asking.  To demand, i'd have to be holding something over you forcing you to do it, i ain't forcing anyone.  If nobody wants to then i guess i'm SOL for now. (but someone with experience can gain appreciation and accomplishment if they're bored by whipping up something in a day that'd take a new-comer weeks or months to do)

and ps: i've solved wayyyy more problems than i've asked for solutions.  the ones i've been asking for help with are ones that i haven't worked out because i'm probably missing something basic.  i'm good at figuring out complex things, but often miss the basics.  (and not afraid to admit my strengths and weaknesses)

Graion Dilach wrote:
You're just a useless burden, wasted space in this database. If you really want to improve, then cut out your bullshit excuses and stop being an attention whore and start modding.
I'm on a break.  ps: quit being attention whored Smile
I'm only responding to what people are saying to me, and listing what i've done, i don't really care if hardly anyone sees it.

With more conversation more things get done faster for all parties. Sure you can sit there and spend ages trying to get out of your creative slump, or you could interact with people and spark ideas.  Sure you could spend weeks trying to fix a problem, or you could just ask someone who's already solved the problem and learn for next time, and help the next person to have the same issue.  Then maybe when they have a problem they don't know then you can help them back.  Everyone saves time and wasted effort yadda yadda.  If you aren't going to interact and share ideas like a community, then what's the point? Might as well just call it a show-off forum instead of a community.

I learned how to fix shit on my computer, by, googling the solution and applying it.  You're gonna say that's not learning? Bullshit!  The only time that's not learning is if you choose not to think about how that solution came to be, and didn't reverse-engineer it at all.  I know how to fix just about every pesky issue on my pc from removing viruses (manually) to fixing minor performance issues because i googled the crap out of everything.  So don't give me that "not learning" shit.

Oh and a side note: being a big negative weight makes you more of a burden than someone like me who's just passing by and yapping for a bit while other people aren't talking much.  Negativity doesn't benefit anything, in fact it weighs on yourself just as much as it weighs on others.


Edit: I think i'll throw in the handful of changes i have in mind today, cuz they've been sorta bugging me haha.
Edit2: done... not gonna scrap yuri yet.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I think Graion's harsh judgement isn't correct... but also, I think it will take a long time (a long loooooooong time, longer than you think...) to create a mod that meets your standards if you cannot create the assets for it. That's a very real problem, the assets must exist somewhere, and in the case of what you need, they mostly do not. The only option is to camp all resource sites and hope that they might be uploaded eventually.
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GenesisAria
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Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's what the whole point in a request thread is.  Also chances are, if anyone will ever do it, it'll happen in way less time than it'd take me to do it myself.  I'd be working weeks or even months just to make one building.  Just trying to come up with stupid little details to put in corners and bare walls and crap like that.

also i'd be screwed for buildups, unless i made a holographic fade-in...
which actually isn't a half bad idea for either the full sci-fi route or the magic route.  (or perhaps figure out how to reverse-animate the building coming apart in pieces in a sort of tornado and disappearing into the ground so they come out and put together the building)

my primary hold-back is just the buildings, i can start rolling out and trying to figure out what to do with units when i've figured out which path is the most realistic to take (ra2+,sci-fi,magic,hybrid)

but there's lots of other stuff i got as ideas in my head, as i said airstrikes and such... i got quite a big collection of shp's and voxels for allies and sovs and uni-faction... making arsenal for allies and soviets is a non-issue for the most part. adding japan would need me to recolour just about anything i use however.
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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... D-Day is almost as old as RA2/YR that didn't stop Mig Eater...
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but MigEater is making all of his stuff himself.
What I'm saying is, it is not very likely the request is going to be met anytime soon. Of course it's possible to work on coding and general unit design until then, but to wait till every unit and building graphic have been created by someone else... I don't think it will happen in a lifetime. But I don't know. It all depends on what someone wants. If a modder is fine with just working on other things and never calling the mod "finished" until all graphical assets have been found somewhere, then that's that modder's choice and totally fine. All I'm saying is, do not expect short-term results.
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Nolt
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Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really sure that building making is so hard? Have you tried it? you said that it could take you a month to make a building w/ damage frames and buildup. I say you that it took me a month to make 6 of them, with buildup, I only made damage frames for one building cuz of a drama w/ my leader, but they're not hard to make either, drawing the concept is the harder part actually, and I had no experience, just in case.

True modeling is hard because you need to take care of many details, textures and many other stuff, but for ra2 it doesn't take that you much time, you don't need the detail, just make some objects, add some simple textures with effects and you're done. I insist you to give it a try (If you can get your hands on a copy of 3ds max, then you're on heaven, if you try with other modeling program, well it's going to be a little harder IMO).
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Well... D-Day is almost as old as RA2/YR that didn't stop Mig Eater...
and that's great for him, he's spending the time he really wants to spend on it.
Millennium wrote:
Yes, but MigEater is making all of his stuff himself.
and that's why it has taken him so long.  if he decided to form a team and spread the workload there would be huge chunks of work time cut out.  i'm sure he's content doing it himself though.

Millennium wrote:
But I don't know. It all depends on what someone wants. If a modder is fine with just working on other things and never calling the mod "finished" until all graphical assets have been found somewhere, then that's that modder's choice and totally fine. All I'm saying is, do not expect short-term results.
i'm not -waiting- for anything other than to see if anyone is willing to parttake in building design... the units and stuff i'd tackle one at a time coming up with whatever i can come up with using what is available to me.  i'm certainly not -waiting- for unit assets, and have no intention to do so.  only exception is if someone decided to make a unit for me, in which case, i'd be waiting for them to finish it.  but if i just sit and twittle my thumbs until someone just -happens- to whip up something that'll work for me, then no shit it'll never happen lol.

Nolt wrote:
You really sure that building making is so hard? Have you tried it? you said that it could take you a month to make a building w/ damage frames and buildup. I say you that it took me a month to make 6 of them, with buildup, I only made damage frames for one building cuz of a drama w/ my leader, but they're not hard to make either, drawing the concept is the harder part actually, and I had no experience, just in case.
i'm really nitpicky when it comes to making stuff... yous hould see me when i do basic photoshopping work, i spend, sometimes hours, making sure every pixel is right, because it's gotta look right when you zoom out.  it would take me that long... it was taking me hours and hours just to cut out a nuke explosion from a black background to convert a video recording to an shp.  And when messing with RA2 level of graphics, there's less pixels for everything, so every pixel counts.  It's too easy to spot when there's imperfections.

Nolt wrote:
True modeling is hard because you need to take care of many details, textures and many other stuff, but for ra2 it doesn't take that you much time, you don't need the detail, just make some objects, add some simple textures with effects and you're done. I insist you to give it a try (If you can get your hands on a copy of 3ds max, then you're on heaven, if you try with other modeling program, well it's going to be a little harder IMO).
getting programs is the easy part... and no, to get good looking buildings, you're gonna want at minimum a C&C Generals level of graphics...  texturing would be harder than the modelling itself, and i already found modelling a pain (they're never simple like google sketchup where you can just click dnd drag to make stuff)


as far as general timespans, i don't think it would take all that long to do what i set out to do... maybe several months, but not much more than that.  the scripting takes time, but not that much time... most of it is spent testing. then it's visual assets that can take time to build, if i'm not making much of my own assets then that's contributing to taking less time to do.  this isn't a total conversion, other than scrapping yuri for japan, what might take time is working in ui and so on, and whether i wanna pretty up the menus and such is optional finishing touches.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Millennium wrote:
Yes, but MigEater is making all of his stuff himself.
and that's why it has taken him so long.  if he decided to form a team and spread the workload there would be huge chunks of work time cut out.  i'm sure he's content doing it himself though.

Uncertain. Perhaps he would not have been able to get anyone interested in working to his specifications. But you are right, maybe he just enjoys the journey of model-building (like those people who build and paint Warhammer models - if someone did it for them, that'd remove half of their hobby, even if it finishes their models). But in your case, you are explicitly saying you would NOT enjoy that activity and you are goal-oriented in creating a mod, not modelling. You are at least lenient in the style you want your buildings to be (beyond that they should have Japanese flair), but - as I understand it - strict on the quality.
The Japanese component and the quality requirements are a mix that excludes public assets for the most part. If you will be able to form a team is uncertain, too. Like for MigEater.

Quote:

Millennium wrote:
But I don't know. It all depends on what someone wants. If a modder is fine with just working on other things and never calling the mod "finished" until all graphical assets have been found somewhere, then that's that modder's choice and totally fine. All I'm saying is, do not expect short-term results.
i'm not -waiting- for anything other than to see if anyone is willing to parttake in building design... the units and stuff i'd tackle one at a time coming up with whatever i can come up with using what is available to me.  i'm certainly not -waiting- for unit assets, and have no intention to do so.  only exception is if someone decided to make a unit for me, in which case, i'd be waiting for them to finish it.  but if i just sit and twittle my thumbs until someone just -happens- to whip up something that'll work for me, then no shit it'll never happen lol.

None exist at the moment. At least not enough to form a high-quality faction. It may take a long time to get anyone interested in working on graphics for your mod. But maybe I'm totally wrong, all it takes is one person after all.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well keeping in mind the original game wasn't superb quality to begin with, but they were still at least visually flawless even if the designs were silly.  That's all i meant by that.  I'm not gonna be all "it's gotta be perfect or screw you!"  i'd probably fix up details myself if i cared enough.  Something like d-day is exceeding the quality of the original game.  But in general i'm a pretty flexible and adaptable person.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you insist on the Japanese flair?
Going by what you said in the other thread, anything that resembles material from Japanese pop culture is okay, right?

It does not have to have Japanese cultural components itself, it just has to look like something that appears in Japanese media?

Maybe try something like the buildings from New Dominion Tank Police.
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GenesisAria
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Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
But you insist on the Japanese flair?
Going by what you said in the other thread, anything that resembles material from Japanese pop culture is okay, right?
It does not have to have Japanese cultural components itself, it just has to look like something that appears in Japanese media?
i did not say that.   said i don't want pop culture stuff.  i want general culture stuff.  just like RA2 soviets aren't based on pop culture, even if the view of it is narrow and satirical, it's still based on general culture not pop culture.

I said that macross jet was okay because if you didn't now what macross was you'd think it was just a funky concept jet (which is exactly what it is, until it transforms).
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Millennium
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm... so you want your buildings to have "typically japanese" elements in architecture? It will be hard to get this... generic sci-fi would be so much easier.
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GenesisAria
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Joined: 10 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not really.  as i've been saying in the other thread.  even making a metally looking structure with a foundation that only has right angles, and putting japanese roof on it like a hat would work, as long as it looked nice.  (again, kind of like the floating fortress buidlings in ra3.)


anyways, i'll get to unit image making and such when i get to it.  for now my focus is allies and soviets, getting them put together nice.  plenty of assets to go around to make them pretty solid factions.


just a random curiosity question; there isn't a way to bring back the powering down buildings button, is there?
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure... Ares brings back the function itself, but it always seemed pointless to me without a place in the UI to hook it onto. So far, I think only SuperWeapon TogglePower is possible, no button. But I'm not sure.
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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for clarification, Millennium is correct in that I prefer to & enjoy doing things myself. I'm in it for the journey not the destination.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're enjoying making it, and i just wanna make something fun to play.  Enjoying the fruits of my labour.  So i aim to get a lot of things done in a reasonable timeframe.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then you are in a relative predicament, because it's not likely you will find someone to make them. It's unfortunate.
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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely. Alot of us here at least enjoy most if not the process of it all not just writing up the story but also drawing up and designing units and stuff. If all you enjoy doing is write walls of text then honestly you aren't gonna get far modding or you'll just end up getting alot of disappointments having to wait for new assets to pop up for your own use.
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Millennium
Commander


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or just settle for public assets that are less to your specifications, but at least something to work with (like I did). It's not like I _started out_ with the idea of making a visually mediocre mod, but this was the only way of "freeing myself" to doing the stuff I enjoy.

Especially in a design phase, I think it's a useful strategy anyways - imagine finishing a set of 8 multi-section mecha, and then, 2 months later, deciding that you'd rather have half of those units as tanks. Then you start over... then you realize, you would rather have different turrets... then you start over... realize a unit is superfluous, kick it out, but you find you need... I don't know... an anti-tank aircraft... you make that, and when it's done, it turns out you would rather give your anti-infantry aircraft secondary anti-tank lasers...

etc

I think during a design phase, it's perfectly okay to use public assets, even if less visually appealing, to save unnecessary workload. Maybe it's a route you would like to pursue, just as a start?
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GenesisAria
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Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ofc.  The japanese buildings are my only real barrier.  Anything else i'm totally going to be using public assets until i find they aren't good enough anymore in whichcase i'll work on replacing or redesigning units.

Don't get me wrong, i enjoy making a unit or a building or w/e.  But i enjoy the fruits of my labour, i joy once i have it working or almost working.  But the actual process of typing scripts in and testing and working out bugs and pixel art work? That i don't particularly enjoy.  I don't despise it, but it is tedious.

Ps: i got a less addon sounding name for the mod now: "Frontlines".  The name i actually nabbed from FFOW, going on the concept of battlefields run by control points, "moving the front-line".  I find it fitting because it encompass the warfare feel, isn't too specific, because the mod is supposed to be sort of like an expansion pack, and it can encompass the various factions' behaviors.  When the japan faction is made, it will be called "Frontlines: Rising Sun"
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess all's been said on the matter of asset acquisition now. I'll rest my case.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iono, my outlook on it is: i don't have fun messing with pixels, if someone is bored and likes messing with pixels, why not alleviate some from the one who doesn't like messing with pixels, and have fun doing it?  Seems like a win-win to me.  I know there are lots of people out there who'll take requests to model something, they just don't seem to be here and iono where to find them XD
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4StarGeneral
Commander


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of those "people out there who'll take requests to model something" are either tied up with another mod or MIA or unable to do it anymore, or any other number of reasons, which is why any non-voxel artists are so rare, not to mention the time it takes to learn how to use 3D programs to a good extent.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfectly fair. But as millennium said, it only takes one.
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