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 Forum index » Featured Projects » Dawn of the Tiberium Age
"Chrono Hazard" playthrough on Hard
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject:   "Chrono Hazard" playthrough on Hard Reply with quote

This is a video of Rampastring and me playing through Sombracier's "Chrono Hazard" co-op mission on hard.



You can also download/watch the video with slightly higher quality from http://dta.cncnet.org/Chrono_Hazard.mp4.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice.
A lot of enemy attacks. A bit strange, that it has mixed Nod and GDI armies.
It had a high amount of stupid harvester drivers though. Smile

I'm also wondering why you were building those weaker pill boxes instead of the more durable camo pill box. You had enough money to build those.
Also why wasn't Bittah building medium tanks?
I was also surprised to see Rampa wasting money on repair bay, while he could have used Bittah's.

A bit sad though that the chronosphere had no effect at all, except as serving as mission objective.
Some chrono reinforcements, a chrono hazard like an ion storm labeled as chrono-storm or something else chrono related would be nice.

For some reason i was also expecting any time some enemy cruiser arriving on that small lake in the east. Twisted Evil
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weaker pill boxes are cheaper and are thus produces faster, which is one reason why I'd often prefer them over the camo pill boxes in emergency situations (like when you get surprised by an infantry rush and don't have enough defenses).

In this case however, the main reason why I didn't build the more expensive camo pill boxes was because I was trying to base-crawl with them so that I could set up a defensive line a little farther away (and as you can see, I did build several camo pill boxes for this defensive line).
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
A bit strange, that it has mixed Nod and GDI armies.

That's what the "chrono hazard" is about #Tongue

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I'm also wondering why you were building those weaker pill boxes instead of the more durable camo pill box. You had enough money to build those.

Mostly for the same reason as Bittah, the cheaper pillboxes build faster and I used them for base crawling. To be honest I'm also not really sure if the extra strength is worth the price increase.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I was also surprised to see Rampa wasting money on repair bay, while he could have used Bittah's.

I guess I'm not used to using my allies' repair pads. Usually I'm the one who builds the repair pad and others then use my repair pad #Tongue

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
For some reason i was also expecting any time some enemy cruiser arriving on that small lake in the east. Twisted Evil

In missions (especially co-op) it's good to avoid such memorization-heavy surprises. A whole full-powered cruiser there could easily wipe out some refineries and make the players lose the game, which'd feel quite lame.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Rampastein wrote:
In missions (especially co-op) it's good to avoid such memorization-heavy surprises. A whole full-powered cruiser there could easily wipe out some refineries and make the players lose the game, which'd feel quite lame.

Well, there were also Demo trucks (with a text warning) and an attack group coming from the bottom right corner, just behind your base, where you wouldn't expect enemies to spawn as well.
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you have 2 pre-placed turrets near the bottom-right corner, which makes it possible to expect something to appear from there. It's not a fun surprise though, you're correct in that. It'd be fine if the map was larger so the units didn't appear that close to the base.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool would be if the map expands and then you see 2 more bases. One from where the demo trucks are coming and another small naval base from the cruiser could come from.
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It already took nearly 40 minutes as it is and I think that's about long enough for a Co-Op mission already.
Keep in mind that you can't manually save multiplayer games and many players might not wanna play for over 2 hours (or maybe even far longer, if you lose the mission half-way through and have to restart).
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the mission could be designed with some secondary objectives, which make it easier over time.
e.g. destroy radar in the west, to stop the constant enemy reinforcement from the west

The map seems to be that strong only due to the many scripted reinforcement attacks, which attack regardless how much you damaged the enemy base and how much you crippled the enemy economy by destroying harvs and refs.
If you wouldn't have been constantly distracted by the mammoth attacks from northeast, flame tank+bikes+missile launcher attacks from south, heli and a10 attacks from north and west, this map would have been a lot easier.
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Sombracier
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 03 May 2014

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, the mission could be designed with some secondary objectives, which make it easier over time.
e.g. destroy radar in the west, to stop the constant enemy reinforcement from the west

The map seems to be that strong only due to the many scripted reinforcement attacks, which attack regardless how much you damaged the enemy base and how much you crippled the enemy economy by destroying harvs and refs.
If you wouldn't have been constantly distracted by the mammoth attacks from northeast, flame tank+bikes+missile launcher attacks from south, heli and a10 attacks from north and west, this map would have been a lot easier.


-If you destroy the hidden base on the north, A10 north reinforcement is disable
-If you destroy the hidden base on the west, Apache west reinforcement is disable
-If you destroy helipad on the main base, each helipad disable A10/Apach reinforcement
-If you destroy first repair bay, mammoth reinforcement is disable
-If you destroy the second repair bay, the second mammoth reinforcement is disable
-If you destroy construction yard, you disable the remaining reinforcement


-If you capture the north hidden base, you can build A10 at lower cost.

Quote:
Some chrono reinforcements

Quote:
For some reason i was also expecting any time some enemy cruiser arriving on that small lake in the east. Twisted Evil

Wait a little, one of my map have already this two things...  Twisted Evil

Quote:
Well, there were also Demo trucks (with a text warning) and an attack group coming from the bottom right corner, just behind your base, where you wouldn't expect enemies to spawn as well.

I was expected more damage from them  Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Cool would be if the map expands and then you see 2 more bases. One from where the demo trucks are coming and another small naval base from the cruiser could come from.

I have think of this too, but Chrono Hazard is just to learn how the editor work, for now I make maps just to learn a liitle more and how to make map on snow. After some maps I will seriously make my main project for DTA, you can expect mega map and you are invited too Lin Kuei Ominae because it will be for 4 players.  Very Happy
By the way Bittah/Rampastring, if you must play a 4 players coop map, what would be the team ?

Edit : I forgot to ask, Bittah, why do you build power plants instead of advanced power plants like Rampastring ?

After see the video again, I still think the north A10 reinforcement act strangely...

Quote:
It'd be fine if the map was larger so the units didn't appear that close to the base.

I can do something for this if you want.
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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that enlarging the map is that necessary, those demo trucks and the other stuff that spawns from the bottom-right corner is quite weak and handled by 3 turrets Smile

We don't really 'pick' a team when testing co-op missions, we just ask staff members who happen to be online at a time. Usually it means that me and Bittah play 2-player missions, and ask LKO to join us (or add an AI) when testing a 3-player mission. I don't think we've played a 4-player co-op mission with only human players in the staff, IIRC we beat The Experiment Lab Co-Op with an AI.
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sombracier wrote:
Bittah, why do you build power plants instead of advanced power plants like Rampastring ?

While regular power plants only provide half as much power as advanced power plants, they also cost exactly half as much as an advanced power plant and provided you have enough build space, there's no real disadvantage to building 2 regular power plants instead of 1 advanced power plant.
I actually only build advanced power plants when I have a lot of credits and feel that my base is well defended enough against both ground and air attacks. The reason I say that is that first of all it gives the enemy two structures to destroy instead of just one to make you lose 200 power and also because two regular power plants combined (500HP + 500HP) have a lot more hitpoints than a single advanced power plant (700HP).
A super weapon attack on one of your power plants will additionally also only make you lose 100 power (worth 250 credits) instead of 200 power (worth 500 credits).

Edit:
After thinking about it a bit I've decided to change the price of the regular power plant from 250 to 300 credits to give players at least some benefit from building advanced power plants instead.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bittah Commander wrote:
After thinking about it a bit I've decided to change the price of the regular power plant from 250 to 300 credits to give players at least some benefit from building advanced power plants instead.

the classic mode settings are better anyway.
Powerplant
Cost=300
Strength=400

Adv. Powerplant
Cost=500
Strength=700 ;almost twice as much as small PP

So the Adv. PP is a in all aspects better than the small PP.
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having played this, it is too simple and frankly it could use some time anomaly events of unexpected chronal rifts delivering reinforcements for enemy etc...

Enemy base has far too few obelisks too making it far easier to assault.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you play this before or after the update that was released on September 10 though?
Before that update there was an issue with the client that caused the enemy AI players in Co-Op missions to always be set to Easy, which obviously made that mission a lot easier.
With DTA's current public version it's decently challenging on hard already.
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Played it yesterday. In any case I feel it needs more funky surprise turns.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ApolloTD wrote:
I feel it needs more funky surprise turns.

i agree. I wouldn't mind if there are even some rare
Tripods appearing and causing havoc on human as well as AI players.

Even one or two random
AT-AT's or AT-ST's could be a funny sight on this map. Smile


Though it's still an extremely nice map. Especially considering it's Sombraciers first DTA map and he just started mapping DTA.
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