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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum
Palette editing issue/question
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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:34 pm    Post subject:   Palette editing issue/question
Subject description: Why is my new color scheme acting strange?
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I'm currently working on having different color schemes for building and units  in TS. Basically I'm trying to edit the unittem and unitsno. Buildings swap flawlessly but the voxels are a little weird. The "brick" section of both unittem. And unitsno. were  changed and split to separate colors gradients for gdi and nod. All voxels  were converted in game and look great everywhere but ingame?!

It seems that the new colors are somewhat transparent,  like the normals on the voxel get screwed and the colors don't get applied?

Any insight wold be great, thank you!

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voxels use a VPL file which points to certain colors in the palette, according to their normals value.
e.g.
for a bright lit voxel the vpl tells the game to use a bright grey color #44 from the palette, while the voxel facing away from the sun the vpl tells the game to use color #53 from the palette.

Since you only changed the palette and not the VPL accordingly, your VPL points to wrong colors and your voxel look bad.
e.g. in your case the formerly dark grey #53 is now a bright green color in your new palette and thus the voxels get green dots for voxel facing away from the sun.

See this topic how the VPL works and an editor is there as well on the later pages.
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah well thats the very first issue to run into as the palette is already 'used'
Which makes color changes more tricky. IF you write new gradients in place from scratch you also are prone to pixelizating SHP graphics as the lines are not equal to each other.

VPL on other hand is spread over and not stay on one line and 8 shades is a bit too low for shading.

I would have sacrificed the tem/sno extra colors for own gradients and gone from there personally to avoid bigger problems, either way any approach means fixing SHPs and VPL and any affected voxels.

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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems pretty complex...I thank you for the insight into vpl's..I will have to locate that file within the TS client and familiarize myself with what you both speak of. I  will try to download the newest editor and learn, but I gotta be honest...clicking that link made me feel like a simple child

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then use the theater colors as Apollo mentioned.
See this topic for palette infos.
the palette used by voxels
all the purple colors can be changed, since they are purple on voxels and thus never used on voxels anyway.
Then you don't have to touch the VPL and just have to fix SHPs for which the new colors don't work anymore.
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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just to clarify,  revert brick back to normal and use the "theater" gradients in the unittem and unitsno for my new voxel colors? that is a great alternative,  I've removed about 90% of those colors from my structure already.. thanks!

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slavack wrote:
for my new voxel colors?

no, not for voxel. These changed colors can be only used right away for SHPs.
If you want to use new colors for Voxel you have to edit the VPL. There's no way around this.

In short
SHP: can instantly use a changed palette
VXL: need the palette and the VPL changed.
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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I managed to download a vpl editor and I got the voxels to look great! But know that I have more understanding about  palettes and vpl's I was wondering if there is a way/workaround with file management to load more than one vpl? I'm trying to produce a different color scheme for my side when you play on either snow maps and temperate maps? The game loads unitsno with the new color but is overridden by the single vpl file.

Simply, can you attach a vpl file to BOTH the unittem and unitsno so your units change color on temp and snow maps?

Thanks again!

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try placing one voxels.vpl in temperat.mix (or isotemp.mix) and another voxels.vpl in snow.mix (or isosnow.mix). then remove the one from local.mix.

There is a low chance that the game isn't hardcoded to load voxels.vpl from local.mix only, and thus load a different one for each theater.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand why one needs a second vpl for that reason. If you colorbleed - mix different gradient colors, like WW vpl - your new gradients, you're doing it wrong.

Red Resurrection used a nonbleeding VPL - actually, mine - and separate theater palettes to achieve this. Considering that TS only uses the first 16 pages, regardless or normal modes, the lack of shades shouldn't be an issue.
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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
try placing one voxels.vpl in temperat.mix (or isotemp.mix) and another voxels.vpl in snow.mix (or isosnow.mix). then remove the one from local.mix.

There is a low chance that the game isn't hardcoded to load voxels.vpl from local.mix only, and thus load a different one for each theater.


I will test that! Thanks

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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
try placing one voxels.vpl in temperat.mix (or isotemp.mix) and another voxels.vpl in snow.mix (or isosnow.mix). then remove the one from local.mix.

There is a low chance that the game isn't hardcoded to load voxels.vpl from local.mix only, and thus load a different one for each theater.



Well, it looks like the game is indeed hardcoded to load from Local mix and will not recognize vpl files in isotemp.mix or isosnow.mix.

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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Red Resurrection used a nonbleeding VPL - actually, mine - and separate theater palettes to achieve this. Considering that TS only uses the first 16 pages, regardless or normal modes, the lack of shades shouldn't be an issue.


Im very curious how you managed to accomplish that task. any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

are you saying I remove the shades completely?


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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get Starkku's VPL tool, because that's intuitive enough.

Notice how the Allied gradient in the VPLs doesn't colorbleed much (IIRC just a few slots where it uses the additional blues) so just copy the relative offsets to the theater gradients.

TBH I'd even replace the theater gradients with HSL gradients with the Lightness stepping 6% from 5% to 95% - come to think of it, this should have been done to RedRes even back then (not just usingf the VPL with IIRC the TS pals).
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Slavack
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 07 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply Mr. Dilach, but I have to be honest, I only started inquiring into palettes and vpl a few days ago. I'm afraid what your telling me is a bit over my head. Any chance I could see an example of of  what you speak of or maybe a bit more info into what color bleeding Is?
Please forgive my naiveté, but I just don't see what I have to do to a single vpl file that would allow me to have two completely different gradients colors work on whichever pallet is loaded unittem and unitsno

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TLDR: Just only use greyscale and 208-223/224-239 colors for your new gradients and not picking shades from blue/brick/either brown etc.
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HG_SCIPCION
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or use my VPL and new palette (edit the palette)...
however my VPL is very dark for all voxels...

Maybe the solution is increase this in Rules.ini:

[AudioVisual]
ExtraUnitLight=



http://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=41420



cheers....
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