Project Perfect Mod Forums
:: Home :: Get Hosted :: PPM FAQ :: Forum FAQ :: Privacy Policy :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::


The time now is Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:09 am
All times are UTC + 0
What if we added support for cnc3 style 3d terrain?
Moderators: Global Moderators, OpenRA Moderators
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [29 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Radaral
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 26 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject:  What if we added support for cnc3 style 3d terrain? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could you imagine if the ground terrain was 3d how much better it would look when you double the game size? anyone have any ideas how to build this option into openra engine?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure!

I mean, who cares that movement is cell based, pathfinding is cellbased, c&c3styled terrain was everything but cellbased, let's do it!

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graion Dilach wrote:
Sure!

I mean, who cares that movement is cell based, pathfinding is cellbased, c&c3styled terrain was everything but cellbased, let's do it!

cnc3 confirmed for next OpenRA release
Good work GD  Very Happy

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Skype Account
Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SMIFFGIG wrote:
Graion Dilach wrote:
Sure!

I mean, who cares that movement is cell based, pathfinding is cellbased, c&c3styled terrain was everything but cellbased, let's do it!

cnc3 confirmed for next OpenRA release
Good work GD  Very Happy


Nope, his real plans are for C&C4 in the next OpenRA release, because it is far more popular and fun #Tongue.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Account
HG_SCIPCION
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
SMIFFGIG wrote:
Graion Dilach wrote:
Sure!

I mean, who cares that movement is cell based, pathfinding is cellbased, c&c3styled terrain was everything but cellbased, let's do it!

cnc3 confirmed for next OpenRA release
Good work GD  Very Happy


Nope, his real plans are for C&C4 in the next OpenRA release, because it is far more popular and fun #Tongue.


yay, C&C4 is more fun than C&C3, agree!

_________________
https://www.moddb.com/mods/global-crisis
https://www.patreon.com/scipcion

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Profile URL
Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In all seriousness if 3d terrain support is added to OpenRA, it would be cell based. (To avoid a complete rewrite of everything.)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Radaral
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 26 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So what I'm getting here is it could work however it would screw with the AI hunt commands as well as when you click your army and select them where to shoot. well what if we added the option for say vxl terrain? I believe it has been attempted in the YR engine however it refused to load it in any color except solid black and was very buggy. but say we built a second option for vxl as opposed to hva, say lgt or tex? or maybe no hva or secondary side file needed with it? would vxl terrain still screw with key hunting and interaction script commands? and if so could we whip up a new variant of vxl say txl? or 3xl?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope, you simply don't get it at all. A huge part of the engine would need to be recoded, from rendering, path finding, physics, etc...

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Account
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Nope, you simply don't get it at all. A huge part of the engine would need to be recoded, from rendering, path finding, physics, etc...


So why couldn't voxel terrain work instead? voxel vehicles handle all that fine so why not voxel landscapes? or even trees and walls?

Back to top
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Only if you want a one frame per minute slide show with the slow vxl renderer.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HG_SCIPCION
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Only if you want a one frame per minute slide show with the slow vxl renderer.




WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY????!!!!

_________________
https://www.moddb.com/mods/global-crisis
https://www.patreon.com/scipcion

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Profile URL
Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Voxel terrain cells are bad idea, how do you intend to create one? Voxels are good for objects but that's it. So yes, you can create voxel trees and prolly you coulda hack together a voxel wall trait as well.

Interestingly though, now that I have an actual GPU - yay! - the voxel renderer seems okay. Apparently it just needs a heck of a GPU.

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID
4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You'd be better off starting from a real engine made for 3D, like Unity, Spring, or  OpenRTS.

Though you can technically make a cell-based 3D terrain type game, it's been done. OpenRA is just entirely not made for 3D.

_________________
"Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail YouTube User URL
pchote
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The RA2 VR prototype (which is OpenRA + the RA2 mod + a custom UE4 rendering process) is a good example of how that is wrong:





OpenRA's internal state is fully 3d, with a cell grid only for pathfinding and building placement.  There aren't any significant technical limitations stopping somebody interested from implementing a 3d terrain renderer.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good, I like being proven wrong. I didn't think the engine had the capacity to run it so smoothly and read that as being entirely in UE4 with assets from OpenRA's RA2 mod (which is easily expected), but I'm glad it can. Not sure how that went from 2.5d to 3d in that scale, ditching the cell grid and a dynamic 3D camera ('m guessing the UE4 part), but if it can be done, great.

_________________
"Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail YouTube User URL
Radaral
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 26 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are you truely sure the Openra could never be made to support voxels to the degree I'm saying? Voxels have gone a long way since 2001. in 7 days to die everything that isn't a character or item that a character uses is a voxel. it's based of the unity engine. are you truely sure openra couldn't be upgraded to use the unity voxel handlers, in-game renderers and drivers or dlls that allow the game to use voxel formats. another question is if this does turn out to be able to work is it worth the effort? I see it as really making the addition of the long awaited subterranean logic much easier to finally get working. it may help with terrain logic heights or cliffs too but the last one I cannot confirm. it may just be easier to have a custom  double pixel version of terrain and cliffs. say by default it uses the ra1 cnc1 versions, but when double pixeled it uses ra2 or even gangstas ts rewire terrain for that scale?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Radaral wrote:
Are you truely sure the Openra could never be made to support voxels to the degree I'm saying?


wouldn't be any point. voxels work well with small sized objects. actual 3D models work better with anything larger. If you look at other games which have been modded to allow 3D and voxel support, such as GZDoom, a lot of modders using it favour 3D rendered objects over voxels since voxels are actually more taxing on the CPU/GPU. IIRC, the way most westwood-era C&C games handled voxels was to use the voxel files to create a series of 2D images (similar to red alert/ TD vehicle SHPs) and then render those 2D images in game as a workaround for not having true 3D.

Back to top
Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

guest wrote:
wouldn't be any point. voxels work well with small sized objects


Voxels are recommended for games with 3D interactions where the camera's distance to voxel objects does not change (like... games with no zoom or insignificant zoom for aerial units), so you can use stuff like Direct2D to render the scene, discarding the need of graphics cards with 3D accelerators. In this case, each voxel is painted like a pixel in the screen and, to make things faster, images with all possible rotations of each voxel are pre-cached in memory. With that in mind, it is clear that spatial size doesn't make that much of a difference for this kind of usage. It makes more difference for storage and pre-processing, but it doesn't compromise the gameplay at all.

Of course that I am aware that this is not how OpenRA deals with voxels nowadays.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Account
TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What about E:BFD? It used cells, but was completely in 3D. Important: There's barely any lag, even on weaker comps! (I tested it on my old HP Mini from 2009, so yeah)

_________________
One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Twitter Channel URL Skype Account
Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would like to point out that the original C&C was already ported to a 3D engine commercially on the Nintendo64. The logic will still use cells, just the drawing is 3D.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

with current engine any chance for 2D terrain with real 3D unit (not voxel)?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Account
SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blade wrote:
I would like to point out that the original C&C was already ported to a 3D engine commercially on the Nintendo64. The logic will still use cells, just the drawing is 3D.


This is a good point, I never thought about his. I wonder how much work was involved in this.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Skype Account
Holy_Master
Commander


Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread





another c&c game with 3D but it's on IOS however it UI design very much similar to c&c64 and for me the game look amazing.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Account
TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graphics are good, controls and thus the game still suck tho.

_________________
One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Twitter Channel URL Skype Account
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

graphics and gameplay look to me like it's a game for children from 6-12
I miss the C&C's that don't look like a bad joke with a gritty pseudo-realistic atmosphere.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tell that to EA

_________________
One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Twitter Channel URL Skype Account
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Holy_Master wrote:
with current engine any chance for 2D terrain with real 3D unit (not voxel)?
This has the same answer as for terrain: yes, but only if somebody with sufficient interest and ability chooses to spend the time to implement it.

Back to top
DonutArnold
General


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is something I'd like to see as well.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My thoughts on voxel terrain, could easily be done in VXLSE as a flat 100x100 square which then gets rotated and flattened into isometry during pre-render. The "voxel" would only have to be a single layer thick presumably since I don't hear the "black dot" problems of RA2, and no normals or dynamic lighting would need to be applied, just a shadowed state.

In fact each voxel cell could be internally rendered/cached like a flat sprite if performance is an issue, thus opening up the cell art  to alternative forms of creation, while behaving exactly like ordinary cell art.

I understand someone would have to write this thing, but I'm just suggesting it should be very feasible to do without a massive performance hit as some suggested.

_________________
http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [29 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
 
Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiggShare on RedditShare on PInterestShare on Del.icio.usShare on Stumble Upon
Quick Reply
Username:


If you are visually impaired or cannot otherwise answer the challenges below please contact the Administrator for help.


Write only two of the following words separated by a sharp: Brotherhood, unity, peace! 

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

[ Time: 0.1717s ][ Queries: 11 (0.0128s) ][ Debug on ]