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Hi there! New (and late) to TS modding.
Moderators: Global Moderators, Tiberian Sun Moderators
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superepicgecko
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 07 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:  Hi there! New (and late) to TS modding.
Subject description: It pleasantly surprises me how much life remains in this community, even after ~20 years.
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MODS PLEASE DON'T KILL ME IF THIS IS IN THE WRONG PLACE, I'VE NO IDEA WHERE TO POST IT OR EVEN WHAT TO DESCRIBE IT AS!

If you're expecting a straightforward introduction to what I'm working on, and stuff that pertains solely to modding, you're sadly out of luck. Don't force yourself to read my massive wall of text and then complain about it. (Something I've seen MANY times on the PPM forums)

---
I've been lurking these forums for years, gathering ideas, learning the ins and outs of modding, and now I think it's time for my first serious project.

Before I get into that, though, I'd like to talk a bit about my background, and also just say I'm really impressed by the amount of effort people have dedicated to modding Tiberium Sun and other CnC games over the years, and all the cool mods, optimizations, etc that have been produced as a result.



I think I'm fairly qualified to describe myself as a veteran modder at this point, though still admittedly new to a lot of aspects of Tiberium Sun modding. I have a whole bunch of projects under my belt for other games but most fell through entirely and never saw the light of day. Some, however, were actually released publicly. Most notably, a whole slew of Starbound mods, (They are available on the Steam Workshop and Chucklefish forums, but BADLY outdated) a basic and quickly abandoned Running with Rifles overhaul (with new weapons, retweaked balance, custom voxels, new sound effects, and new factions/backstory if anyone actually cared about that) as well as... well, a good bit of other stuff.

This mod, however, is easily my most ambitious. And my most well-planned/executed to date.



I first played Tiberium Sun at my grandfather's house something like 13 or 14 years ago, and while I was VERY young at the time I grew to love the game and played it throughout my childhood. I remember when Tiberium Wars was released, and loved it. I also remember what a disaster Tiberium Twilight was/is, and even played Tiberium Alliances (What a freaking mess...)

Unfortunately, unless resurrected by some big nasty corporation like EA, I wouldn't expect any new Tiberium games from official developers.

The community, however, lives on! Even after all these years, people are playing and modding games that came out when I was two years old. And I want to be a part of that.

To that end, I've been masterminding a somewhat ambitious personal/public mod for Tiberium Sun that leverages the awesome work community members have done, and my personal experience/expertise as best I can.

Rampastring's TS client in particular has been a godsend, it's just amazing and I can't imagine working without it now even though I discovered it a few weeks after I started work on my mod.


---------------------
Anyways, the mod!
I call it Heigenieg Rising. It's intended to be as comprehensive an overhaul of vanilla TS as I can manage, set in an alternate future where Tiberium exists, but instead of GDI/NOD there is the WDC/NWP.



I won't bore anyone with the backstory, but here's a very small teaser of what is to come - showing off some UI features and backgrounds.




Yes, I took assets (UI elements, recolored and adjusted) from Twisted Insurrection. I'm not laying claim to this or any outside assets used in my mod as MY work anyway, and my intent is not to steal credit for other's hard work - when released, HR will properly credit as many people as it can.

Rampastring, on the off chance you should ever read this - Keep up the work dude, people really do appreciate your efforts.

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PussyPus
Commander


Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Location: Egypt

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You know what, it's pretty easy to make your own  "buttons" GUI, just learn for yourself, i did it on more things & finally i am good at them.

In my opinion, the buttons & text colors are not fitting at all, try making it blue or green.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not discouraging you from your work or continuing it, but have you considered using the OpenRA engine?
I love the TS engine, but it shows more and more its flaws due to its age and the OpenRA engine shows steady progress in being a true replacement for TS and at one point surpassing the TS engine by far.

So if you just started your project or haven't done that much yet, a conversion towards OpenRA might be worth to think about.
A TC is a long term task of maybe several years and once you reach a point close to a final release, the TS engine might become unbearable to work with (incompatibility with new OS's, missing logics for otherwise nice gameplay ideas, unknown crashes and sync losses etc).

A TC is an ambitious task, so good luck with your project.
I still remember 10 years ago, how i thought TI could be finished in 1 or 2 years. How silly i was. wow. Embarassed

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

superepicgecko wrote:
Rampastring, on the off chance you should ever read this - Keep up the work dude, people really do appreciate your efforts.

I'm active here on the forums, and being a TS modder, I of course read topics here on the TS modding forum #Tongue

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the client. Your UI texture work for it looks good.

Despite all the good things that my client and the CnCNet TS patch project has brought to TS, I'd also recommend looking at OpenRA instead of Tiberian Sun. While mods that I'm a part of (DTA and TI) still use the TS engine, they were started before OpenRA and converting existing assets to OpenRA would be a huge task. With a completely new, big total conversion project you're not facing the problem of porting over existing assets, and while it takes a bit of learning in the beginning, in the long run you'll most likely be far more satisfied with OpenRA's greater modding capabilities compared to the TS engine. You'll also avoid all kinds of constantly increasing compatibility issues that the TS engine has with modern operating systems (my client has solved the current problems for the most part, but not perfectly).

While it might be weird to say this as the main developer of the client, I made the client originally for DTA only. The TS client is just a light modification of DTA's client, meant for regular players and casual TS modders who wish to do small modifications like changing a bunch of unit stats. And while the client is perfectly viable for total conversions (as shown by DTA, TI and MO), the TS engine itself is so outdated that for new, big projects started today, OpenRA is the better choice. It doesn't currently support all TS features, but since a total conversion project easily takes years to complete, by the time you're finished, OpenRA will most likely have implemented nearly all if not simply every single TS feature and far more on top of that.

Regardless of whether you'll continue with TS or switch to OpenRA, I wish you good luck with the project Smile

_________________
CnCNet Client | CnCNet TS patches | More Quality-of-Life Improvements for RA Remastered


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superepicgecko
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 07 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Not discouraging you from your work or continuing it, but have you considered using the OpenRA engine?
I love the TS engine, but it shows more and more its flaws due to its age and the OpenRA engine shows steady progress in being a true replacement for TS and at one point surpassing the TS engine by far.

So if you just started your project or haven't done that much yet, a conversion towards OpenRA might be worth to think about.
A TC is a long term task of maybe several years and once you reach a point close to a final release, the TS engine might become unbearable to work with (incompatibility with new OS's, missing logics for otherwise nice gameplay ideas, unknown crashes and sync losses etc).

A TC is an ambitious task, so good luck with your project.
I still remember 10 years ago, how i thought TI could be finished in 1 or 2 years. How silly i was. wow. Embarassed


I have looked into OpenRA quite a bit. I never had the same attachment to RA as I did TS though, and the TS engine (though it has limits) has enough stuff for me to muck around with without getting overwhelmed - I saw that OpenRA had TS stuff planned, but it's not here yet. If that should come out I might migrate over to OpenRA, but until then this will do just fine.

I plan to use as much outside assets as I can (again no theft intended!) to keep my focus on actual features and unit stats, gameplay etc. Art is not my forte, making SHPs and HVAs and Voxels for EVERYTHING in a total conversion is a mind-numbingly gigantic task I can barely comprehend, and I'm working totally on my own #Tongue

Thanks for responding to me Lin, I've seen a lot of your posts on these forums and they've been nothing but helpful. Infantile though it may be, I'm actually awed that three separate people took the time to read and respond to my post.

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superepicgecko
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 07 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PussyPus wrote:
You know what, it's pretty easy to make your own  "buttons" GUI, just learn for yourself, i did it on more things & finally i am good at them.

In my opinion, the buttons & text colors are not fitting at all, try making it blue or green.


I couuld, but if it ain't broke...

I know the buttons/text colors clash a bit. I can work on it, but right now I feel the weakest point of the menu is actually the background. I could spend AGES refining everything and learning how to build a UI from scratch, but I don't know if I have the attention span to spend years and years on a project. I'm pretty industrious with a lot of spare time, but that much dedication... dang.

Build first, refine later.

Most of what I have so far is a placeholder until I get around to replacing it with something really nice (or not)

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superepicgecko
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 07 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^Rampastein wrote:
superepicgecko wrote:
Rampastring, on the off chance you should ever read this - Keep up the work dude, people really do appreciate your efforts.

I'm active here on the forums, and being a TS modder, I of course read topics here on the TS modding forum #Tongue

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the client. Your UI texture work for it looks good.

Despite all the good things that my client and the CnCNet TS patch project has brought to TS, I'd also recommend looking at OpenRA instead of Tiberian Sun. While mods that I'm a part of (DTA and TI) still use the TS engine, they were started before OpenRA and converting existing assets to OpenRA would be a huge task. With a completely new, big total conversion project you're not facing the problem of porting over existing assets, and while it takes a bit of learning in the beginning, in the long run you'll most likely be far more satisfied with OpenRA's greater modding capabilities compared to the TS engine. You'll also avoid all kinds of constantly increasing compatibility issues that the TS engine has with modern operating systems (my client has solved the current problems for the most part, but not perfectly).

While it might be weird to say this as the main developer of the client, I made the client originally for DTA only. The TS client is just a light modification of DTA's client, meant for regular players and casual TS modders who wish to do small modifications like changing a bunch of unit stats. And while the client is perfectly viable for total conversions (as shown by DTA, TI and MO), the TS engine itself is so outdated that for new, big projects started today, OpenRA is the better choice. It doesn't currently support all TS features, but since a total conversion project easily takes years to complete, by the time you're finished, OpenRA will most likely have implemented nearly all if not simply every single TS feature and far more on top of that.

Regardless of whether you'll continue with TS or switch to OpenRA, I wish you good luck with the project Smile


Thank you for your feedback!

I am going to stick with TS (your upgraded version, of course) at least for the time being. It may be more work overall, but I've got a ton of time each day to dedicate this in between college classes, so I'm okay with that.

Also I've been making small mods with TS for quite some time now but nothing public. I've learned how to scale my ambition and so far, I think I'm doing it well. I believe but don't know for certain that OpenRA is pretty easy to break into, but I've already moved from the Vanilla TS over to your client, and I don't want to move again and again and get nothing done even if it does get better every time.

Your updated TS has exactly what I need, and I can find my way around it easily, INIs and Mixes are organized... It's just really solid, and I'm sold on it.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

superepicgecko wrote:
I plan to use as much outside assets as I can (again no theft intended!) to keep my focus on actual features and unit stats, gameplay etc. Art is not my forte, making SHPs and HVAs and Voxels for EVERYTHING in a total conversion is a mind-numbingly gigantic task I can barely comprehend, and I'm working totally on my own #Tongue

Just keep in mind that if you want to borrow any non-public asset from a mod, ask the mod's creators for permission first. Aside from abandoned assets, we have an asset exclusivity policy in DTA and TI for example; we don't want people to for example use TI's or DTA's unique unit/building graphics in their own public project, because it'd make these mods less unique.

You can find public assets on the Media hut https://ppmforums.com/index.php?f=49

And btw, if you ever need any help with the client or have questions about it, feel free to ask in the TS client topic: https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=40462

_________________
CnCNet Client | CnCNet TS patches | More Quality-of-Life Improvements for RA Remastered


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superepicgecko
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 07 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^Rampastein wrote:
superepicgecko wrote:
I plan to use as much outside assets as I can (again no theft intended!) to keep my focus on actual features and unit stats, gameplay etc. Art is not my forte, making SHPs and HVAs and Voxels for EVERYTHING in a total conversion is a mind-numbingly gigantic task I can barely comprehend, and I'm working totally on my own #Tongue

Just keep in mind that if you want to borrow any non-public asset from a mod, ask the mod's creators for permission first. Aside from abandoned assets, we have an asset exclusivity policy in DTA and TI for example; we don't want people to for example use TI's or DTA's unique unit/building graphics in their own public project, because it'd make these mods less unique.

You can find public assets on the Media hut https://ppmforums.com/index.php?f=49

And btw, if you ever need any help with the client or have questions about it, feel free to ask in the TS client topic: https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=40462


Makes me sad. But I understand. I'll keep the project private, at least until I can replace all assets with personally made or community stuff.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey buddy,  just a little tip: you said that the name of the mod is Heigenieg Rising, right? If the answer is positive, there is a little typo in your user interface Wink.

And you shouldn't give up because you can't use TI assets. If you may get some help from people in the Media Hut to replace TI assets with assets that you can use in a public mod. But I'm sure that you'll get help once people notice that you have a project targeted for the public, with a clear objective and you show some serious effort  on it. Right now, focus on what you can do on your own, so you'll have something to show.

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superepicgecko
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 07 Mar 2017

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Hey buddy,  just a little tip: you said that the name of the mod is Heigenieg Rising, right? If the answer is positive, there is a little typo in your user interface Wink.

And you shouldn't give up because you can't use TI assets. If you may get some help from people in the Media Hut to replace TI assets with assets that you can use in a public mod. But I'm sure that you'll get help once people notice that you have a project targeted for the public, with a clear objective and you show some serious effort  on it. Right now, focus on what you can do on your own, so you'll have something to show.


Dear god I honestly don't know how I missed that typo. Thank you a ton, Banshee.

I'm not giving up - I'm also a veteran of many many, many attempted group projects, ranging from a plethora of full-fledged games across various premade engines to youtube channels, and in all previous cases the weakest links were other people. They lost interest and I was left to drive everything myself until even I grew sick of doing everything myself and gave up before realizing my initial ambitions - I don't want to be reliant on other people if I can help it, and more than anything this mod is about expanding my personal knowledge, and actually carrying through and finishing something.

I'm using other's work not because I want to steal from them or pass off their work as my own - public work is awesome and I'll credit and use only public/my own stuff if I ever do go fully public with HR.

I simply do not have the time, people skills, and or patience to organize another big group effort only to have things fall through with one or more or ALL members who were supposed to contribute - part of it too could have been the communities I was a part of, and maybe my general youth and inexperience. I don't know.
I don't want to deal too much with other people on this one, yet I can't help but stare in awe at the awesome effects and models other mods use. I know I couldn't create something equally awesome without a ton of experience that I don't have and probably won't for several more years.

Making it public was sort of an afterthought, and clearly not a well-thought out one. #Tongue

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