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Prob AI build orders + Base size incrementations + Ally AIs
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DarkVen9109
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject:  Prob AI build orders + Base size incrementations + Ally AIs
Subject description: Problem with AI build orders + Base size incrementations + Ally-controlled AIs
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So I tried to break the build order a bit by adding cloned factories from Allies, Soviets, and Yuri. Turns out to be successful. The real deal on a short note is that, on a Soviet AI, it would build the cloned barracks at an early phase before proceeding to war factory. (It has the refinery already). The Allied one has no problem. Yuri one resorts to building more tank bunkers after factories are put up.

Next thing is, the base size. On Mental Omega, the AI has expanded base. What I'm trying to say is, I wanted the AI to have more base defenses and Power Facilities.

The only option that I have is to clone them as well. Got no choice... Any suggestions? I have also read wardeathfun's and tekka warrior's thread regarding this.

edit

I also noticed that my ally-controlled AI will not produce any units until it gets attacked. Why is that so?[/b]

Last edited by DarkVen9109 on Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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nlspeed
Grenadier


Joined: 26 Dec 2016

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I believe - but haven't tested; most of what I know of the AI actually comes from trial and error - that the AI roughly follows the order of buildings in the rulesmd.ini. So if you first have GAWEAP and then GAPILE, the AI will build a War Factory before building a Barracks. But again, I am not sure about this.

There are tags that control the amount of defences and power plants; you don't need to clone them. PowerSurplus makes the AI build as many Power Plants as it needs to reach this surplus, so increasing it makes the AI build more Power Plants.

AlliedBaseDefenseCounts, SovietBaseDefenseCounts, and ThirdBaseDefenseCounts control the amount of defences the AI builds, from Brutal to Normal to Easy. Ares' AI.BaseDefenseCounts tag does the same, but is located under the relevant country's header.

You could also try experimenting with AntiInfantryValue, AntiArmorValue, and AntiAirValue, as a lower value would logically speaking make the AI build more to reach the desired value.

Other tags that might be of interest to you are, for example, BaseSizeAdd - the maximum size of an AI's base is the player's size, plus this amount - and AIBaseSpacing - the space between the AI's buildings, useful if your AI uses large taskforces (the AI ignores adjacency rules and the like).

There are many interesting tags, though, and I would advise you to carefully look through rulesmd.ini and ModEnc for an extensive list.

Take note that using cloned factories means that the AI produces every unit twice; one Rhino Heavy Tank will roll out of all the War Factories an AI owns (it is up to you to decide whether that is desirable). This can be avoided if you are using the very latest version of Ares, though, but that is a very recent development.

Last edited by nlspeed on Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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DarkVen9109
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Deezire's guide is already sufficient for me. I put the factory clones from the very last tag of rules(md).ini building types.

Will try your recommendations.

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nlspeed
Grenadier


Joined: 26 Dec 2016

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Speaking of AI, might I hijack this topic to ask whether anyone knows why my AIs have so many idle units in their base? At first I thought it had to do with Whiner or Recruiter, so I set Recruiter and Are Team Members Recruitable to yes and Whiner to no, on most units (Reinforce is also no, on that note). But the 'problem' persists.

It isn't a bad thing, per se; it makes AI bases very resilient to attacks and doesn't seem to hamper the AI's ability to attack very much. But it would be nice if all these units could acquire the mission Hunt every so often, or join up with other taskforces, or whatnot, instead of staying idle in the base.

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DarkVen9109
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Title Edited

I also ran into problems in which my ally AIs would refuse to produce anything until they get attacked. I'm guessing it has to do with my AI editing on aimd file.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This allied-AI-playing-passive stuff happens all the time. I'd say it's even hardcoded. Although they should build the basedefense teams and stiop only when the required amount of BD teams has passed.

You can try using basedefense teams to attack or scout but I'm not sure how that helps.

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PePsiCola
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh yeah, the passive-allied AI is solved as soon as the ally is attacked by the enemy. 3v3s or 4v4s are usually unbalanced in this way, because the player will be getting targeted by the enemy AIs early on, and the player's allies will not help unless they are attacked too, so I tend to just send out a starting unit to the enemy, and lure all of their starting units to one of my allies in order to get them attacking.

I also noticed that, usually regardless of if it's a team match or not, if any AI is attacked by neutral units before other enemies, then it screws them all up and they won't build attack teams, as they'll be targeting neutral. They'll even use their super weapons on neutral buildings, often Bridge Repair Huts. The only way to get an AI to attack another real enemy is to attack them heavily (usually destroying a portion of their base and leaving their construction yard at a few bars of health does the trick). I keep neutral units out of my maps for this reason.

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DarkVen9109
Pyro Sniper


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hate it when it happens. It isn't like MO where it has prebuilt basic infantries and AIs run smoothly even on 4v4 or 3v3.


The only solution I have planned is to have a base defense team or a prebuilt taskforce

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