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 Forum index » Featured Projects » Dawn of the Tiberium Age
What do you fear in DTA?
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Einhander
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject:  What do you fear in DTA?
Subject description: Lend me your fear friends.
Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
I'm curious to know what units in particular stress you out as a player? It could be swarms or just 1 specific unit. (In this case these units are your enemy.)

The reason I ask is because I often find that some players are adverse to specific units during their play of the game. As such I would very much like to understand why some units either go under used or cause significant issues for some players.

I also noticed that some players pay special attention to specific units when they encounter them to ensure they are eliminated quickly, often with overwhelming force.

Please feel free to specify why certain units hinder you as a player, or result in your demise.

(I understand that this question is rather unorthodox, but any input would be greatly appreciated.)

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CalAnon
Civilian


Joined: 11 Jan 2018
Location: Eastern North Westlandia (South Side)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having more experience with vanilla RA, but having messed with DTA in the past, I have to say that when I'm playing as the Soviets, I'm generally more interested in Allied spies. While the AI doesn't usually use them, I have done Skirmish maps in vanilla RA where they did. I can recall clearly my surprise when I saw an E1 infantry walk into my Radar Dome - an E1 that I thought was part of my Base Defense Group, but later realized could not have been, as he was out of position. I was used to the AI never using Spies, so I hadn't bothered with Guard Dogs. You can be assured that every Skirmish I did after that, I had Guard Dogs out.
In fact, this was my biggest issue with DTA and the main reason I stopped playing - Spies felt almost useless, or required inordinate amounts of babysitting and hyper-careful Solid Snake pathmaking in order to even get the job done in the Single Player missions, as more units have the ability to detect spies in DTA than they did in Vanilla, the last time I played. So, now the problem is in the reverse - as an Allied player, I'm disproportionately afraid of using Spies at all, as most base defenses will detect them and kill them.
The only other Land unit that gives me pause is Mammoth tanks as an Allied player. I feel that not giving the Allies some kind of Tank Destroyer or purpose-built Anti-tank gun in Vanilla was an oversight, as, in direct combat, killing one in the midst of an Attack Group can be a meat grinder for Allied Medium Tanks. Apaches can't get the job done, either. So, I'm left with trying to kill them with Artillery while I have some Mediums tie it down. That's if I can get the Artillery in place quickly enough. In the Single Player missions, they give me difficulties as well, but I generally handle them with a large number of Gun Turrets, luring them into my base defenses.

Air Units are another thing. I found them horribly unbalanced in both vanilla RA and DTA - and I've seen from the discussions on DTA that you have your set ways about it so I'm not going to criticize unit allotment & etc.
As an Allied player, I found my utter lack of decent AAA defenses troubling, especially when the enemy had MiGs. The AA Gun takes a lot of power, and its vanilla damage wasn't up to snuff, I felt, when dealing with multiple air units. Backed up with some Rocket Soldiers, they did decent service, but I felt that with the limited number of units in the game in the first place, the AA Gun sould have done more to help, without having to build a massive network of them.
As a Soviet player, I found that one or two Mammoths was plenty to deal with the odd Apache the AI would send against my mobile forces. Both that the Apache would generally target the Mammoth, or a Heavy, and that this gave both of them enough time to kill the Apache, and that the killing power of the Mammoth Tusk was enough to get the job done before too much damage was dealt to my attack forces. Back at base, 1-2 SAM sites backed up by a single Mammoth, maybe two if I was running a larger base that had more avenues of attack, was plenty.

Naval units. My biggest hair puller was Soviet subs. Allied Cruisers? No big deal, if I had a couple Subs or could lure them in range of a battery of V2's. The fact that Subs were so good at hiding, combined with the lack of detection ability on the Destroyer and Gunboat, made dealing with them a mess. Sneaking a Spy into the Sub Pen isn't always possible, so the map-wide Sonar Pulse is kinda useless at worst, and hit-or-miss at best (given that the AI is pretty good at defending against Spies with a goodly number of Guard Dogs even in Vanilla is another issue).

Other than that, Nukes put me on edge - in a "good" way - as they can mess up base defenses and production, but I know that they can't One-Shot my Construction Yard. The Chronosphere doesn't worry me, and as an Allied player, the most I'll do is perhaps Chronoshift a Cruiser to an inland puddle near the enemy base. I don't see it as particularly useful (which I attribute to my playstyle). The Iron Curtain is about the same - my usual tactic is to sacrifice smaller units to an Iron Curtained unit until its power runs out, holding my stronger units in reserve. When the Iron Curtain runs out, I rush the unit that had it on, and overwhelm it (as it's usually a Mammoth, anyway).

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Einhander
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your input CalAnon.
I rarely use Allied Spies in skirmish or in missions mostly because I'm more interested in territory control. I do agree that the spies do have many hurdles they must navigate, but I actually enjoy that. From my perspective it adds a thrill factor to the game for me.

The AA issue you bring up is a bit of an oddity, from what I understand of the developers basis of design is that base defenses are more of a deterrent rather than a shield. However I do agree that when defending against intense air rushes that they are indeed lacking. They are however from my perspective balanced well to take out small groupings of air units.

Guard dogs in DTA I think are an underused unit that is actually a very effective anti infantry unit. They do very well with groups of infantry when storming an enemy position or make the early infantry rushes easy to eliminate or even outright deter.

I greatly appreciate your input, and if anything else comes to mind please feel free to add more. Believe me when I say you have given me new insight they will yield productive results.

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Colos
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 12 Nov 2014

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swarms of Grenadiers from either GDI or Soviets. Yeah if you kill one it could get a few more down but if they're spaced out enough then there is nothing you can do. If you don't have an APC out or Pill Boxes or Flamethrowers you're screwed.

Artillery is also a huge thing. I hate how the AI will literally bait you with one or to then sweep in with their force. This really only applies to the artillery from  Allies and Nod. You can wreck everything with just a few and a good buffer between them and enemy forces.

Chrono Tanks are also strong. You really only see a few out at a time but if left un-checked one can easily ruin a portion of your base. But if you're up against an Allies player, you probably won't see them.

Yaks. I know they got nerfed a bit in the latest patch but still. Eight or more of those things will kill just about anything.

The XO-Suit. I hate that thing. You can have ten mammoths out and I won't even sweat but if there's an XO in them; it has to go down.

Flame Tanks are another unit that you have to kill before they get too close. Only takes about two to mess anything up.

Flak Trucks. I know they're only meant for AA but they do have a short artillery range and they can make do for a cheap replacement. If you have enough they will be a problem. But that's also like saying enough Minigunners will ruin anything.

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thehx
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 24 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm... termites, anyone? Although you won't see them until they come close to your sensors, I guess, they'll count as unnerving too

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fear only a well mixed group of units (anti-inf,anti-air,anti-armor,artillery).

Any force with just the same units is nothing to fear. Every unit has a good counter unit and since i scout early, i can see such incoming forces and prepare early enough to counter them with the right unit.


Only the AI with its much faster build rate, lower costs and much higher amount of units in the early game are a problem.
Mid and late game i try to have my production surpass the opponent and when that happens it's game over anyway, since i can outproduce the opponent.


So only limited forces on my side (like in campaign missions) or low funds are a real problem (like very few or depleted mineral fields).
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CalAnon
Civilian


Joined: 11 Jan 2018
Location: Eastern North Westlandia (South Side)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Einhander wrote:
I rarely use Allied Spies in skirmish or in missions mostly because I'm more interested in territory control. I do agree that the spies do have many hurdles they must navigate, but I actually enjoy that. From my perspective it adds a thrill factor to the game for me.


As I mentioned, it was a bit much for my taste. A preferred tactic of mine was using Spies to infiltrate the Radar Domes any time I could, mainly so I could find enemy units more easily, and wouldn't spend ages trying to locate units further afield that the AI hid or was using as Ore Field Defense. That, and the Sonar Pulse thing - as I said, hit-or-miss at best - when it was possible. Other than that, Spies were excellent for scouting enemy base defenses, and gathering intel on how the enemy economy was going. The occasional shut down of enemy power also helped. I suppose I got very used to using them, as the only counter to them in Vanilla was in Guard Dogs.

Einhander wrote:
The AA issue you bring up is a bit of an oddity, from what I understand of the developers basis of design is that base defenses are more of a deterrent rather than a shield. However I do agree that when defending against intense air rushes that they are indeed lacking. They are however from my perspective balanced well to take out small groupings of air units.


I had no idea this was the case. I'm used to playing alone, so when I skirmish, it's against the AI. In my experiences, when the AI is Soviet, they tend to have a lot of MiG's and Hinds (Vanilla), which can overwhelm Allied AA networks. That and try to drop Paradrops or Parabombs right in the middle of my base. Even if my AA can eventually knock the planes down, I end up with survivors giving me a headache (if I don't have a Base Defense Group, which I learned to do by habit after my first few matches). I would have preferred it if Allied AA was more of a sure thing, but that was Westwood's decision, so, I had no choice but to deal with it (loads of Advanced Power Plants, 10+ AA Guns, base size dependent, layered so the aircraft has to go through several lines of it).

Einhander wrote:
Guard dogs in DTA I think are an underused unit that is actually a very effective anti infantry unit. They do very well with groups of infantry when storming an enemy position or make the early infantry rushes easy to eliminate or even outright deter.


Funny you mention that. As a Soviet player, I use them quite often. I was also a fan of the old mod "Dogs of War" purely for the entertainment factor. I tend to buffer my infantry forces with a 4:1 ratio of Dogs (E1, E1, E2, E2, Dog), on lower technology maps/missions, because they ARE so effective against Infantry.

Einhander wrote:
I greatly appreciate your input, and if anything else comes to mind please feel free to add more. Believe me when I say you have given me new insight they will yield productive results.


Glad to help. Anything you need, dude.

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Sombracier
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 03 May 2014

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm curious to know what units in particular stress you out as a player?

I guess we should only say units from DTA, otherwise I would have said "Siege mode tank and Defiler" from Starcraft 1, "Ballista/Catapult and Mage/Death knight" from Warcraft 2, "Krogoth" from Total Annihilation, "Shockwave and Sky fortress" from Dark Reign (By the way, it would be interesting to add Hover Freighter from Dark reign to DTA).  Razz

Can bypass my defense and do many damage:
- Phase tank
- Stealth APC
- Submarine / Missile submarine / Project 941
- Termite
- Devil's Tongue

When you did not scout the area and your army meet that :
- Demo Truck
- Microwave Tank
- Behemot

Unexpected attack :
- Chemical Hovercraft / Hover MRLS / Flak Hovercraft
- Chemical Ant  Wink
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sombracier wrote:
"Shockwave and Sky fortress" from Dark Reign (By the way, it would be interesting to add Hover Freighter from Dark reign to DTA)

oh the memories. the shockwave was awesome...
#Tongue

A hover freighter like the low floating one from Dark Reign would be too high tech imo.
However a hovercraft style harvester might work balancing wise. But then only with a low storage space.
But implementing it isn't easy (or impossible) due to the pathfinding problem for amphibious units as a result to get ships working in the first place.
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Sombracier
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 03 May 2014

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the shockwave was awesome... only when you shoot the opponent, not the opposite.
I remember the first time I have build a shockwave during my childhood, I did not know how he was working, so I sent him alone attacking by clicking on an enemy building.......which made the tank attacked from my base...You should know what happened next #Puppy dog

For the Hover Freighter, I meant to add a hovercraft harverster of course, not a copy / paste of the Hover Freighter of Dark Reign. Just for the fun, I would like to know, it is doable to add a flying harvester ?
Do you think a dark reign mod is possible with openRA ?

Dark Reign 2 don't have a gameplay as good as the first but have some interesting mapping like the final mission.

Regarding your gif, I do not remember seeing this tank in tiberian sun, I guess it's one of your creations?   Smile
By the way LKO, what is your favorites unit in dark reign ? For me it's the Tachyon char, I love the empire side.
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