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 Forum index » Featured Projects » Dawn of the Tiberium Age
Tactics of Small Squads in Unique Scenarios
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Einhander
Light Infantry


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject:   Tactics of Small Squads in Unique Scenarios
Subject description: I would very much like everyone's input please :)
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Hello everyone,
I'm sure most of you have figured out that I am conducting research for a project I'm working on. Therefore I would very much like everyone's input for minor scenarios to understand how players would approach it. Feel free to give input on one or all scenarios.

For your answers I respectfully request that you try to keep your unit lists as small as possible with a maximum of 5 units in total, however if you feel that you can complete the objective with less please say so.

After you select the units for the scenario below please specify how you would tackle the event if you were playing with these units. If your selection is unorthodox I would greatly appreciate the creativity in your approach.

Any faction units may be used. Smile

Scenario 1:
Nod has a bottleneck on a mountain slope with 4 obelisks (2 on each side of a gate, 1 tile apart) with laser wall separating them from the open terrain with 4 turrets (2 on each side of the gate, 1 tile apart). The gate is a busy area with harvesters and the occasional escort of rocket bikes passing through with a patrol of minigunners and rocket infantry traversing the area. The chances of retaliation upon attack are high. (3 light tanks, 2 flame thrower infantry, and 3 apache's) How would you breach this defense?

Scenario 2:
There is a tunnel that stretches across a large mountain range, at the exit there is a heavily fortified GDI position. There are no wall nor a gate, but there are 4 guard towers in direct range of the exit spaced evenly in a line spaced 1 tile apart. There are 2 advanced guard towers behind (away from the tunnel exit) the end guard towers spaced 1 tile apart. The chances of retaliation are low, how would you breach this defense?

Scenario 3:
There is a long stretch of a land bridge about 5-6 tiles wide that is exposed. Nearby allied cruisers and frigates are known to patrol the waters nearby (3 cruisers and 2 frigates). The objective here is to traverse the entire land bridge and if possible eliminate the naval threat. The risk of attack by the naval units is very high, how would you negotiate this scenario?

Scenario 4:
There is a power plant outpost in the corner of the map (top right of the map against the boarder). The defenses are limited to only flame towers and SAM sites. However a patrol of 5 heavy tanks, 3 tesla troopers, and 1 mammoth tank guard the area. The patrol tends to spread out but while at the end of their patrol they tend to group up. The terrain around the location is flat and open. How would you eliminate the power plant outpost and it's defenders?

I understand that these scenarios seem fairly generic, however I'm hoping that with the limited options provided that interesting solutions may result.

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Sombracier
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 03 May 2014

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the details that might have been helpful are missing, so I will consider the following :
- The technology is DTA, not RA or TD, so the chronotank can not teleport and units are balanced.
- We can only have land units, no naval or air units
- AI can't (re)build, repair or sell
- Only buildable units, so we can't have hovercraft or Ant units
- No time limit
- "Any faction units may be used" means I can combine different faction units for the same scenario


Before starting I would like to ask why limit to only 5 units? It would have been interesting to have low-tech teams but with a larger number, for example, for the scenario 1 I could propose:
- 5x Rocket soldiers
- 2x Rocket launcher
- 3x medium tank

But because you ask for 5 units max, I can't do this because they are 10.
It's more challenging to me than :
- 1x Behemot
- 4x Mammoth tank

As a result, I find that limiting it to just 5 units greatly reduces the range of possibilities and you end up only taking the strongest units and wait the units to level up without really thinking about some possibilities with low-tech units that could have been very interesting.

Despite this, I will still try to give you some exotic teams.

Scenario 1 :
Quote:
The gate is a busy area with harvesters and the occasional escort of rocket bikes passing through with a patrol of minigunners and rocket infantry traversing the area.

I will consider 2 harvesters, and an escort of 2 bikes, 3 minigunners and 1 rocket infantry and the AI send the retaliation team if harvesters are attacked.
I will consider the tiberium is green to prevent random damage because of the blue tiberium.

Easiest strategy:
- 1x Behemot
- 4x Mammoth tank

The main difficulty in this scenario for me is to defend Behemot from Apaches, if I manage to do this and because I consider AI can't repair buildings, the Behemot can easily destroy the defenses alone.

I clean the escort by killing the infantry with Behemot closely followed by the mamoth tanks to take care of the bikes, then the AI will send the retaliation team.
To kill the retaliation team, if the Apaches are first, they are easily destroyed by mammoth tanks then they attack the light tank while the infantry are killed by the behemot.
Then you just have to destroy buildings with the Behemot.

Very hard strategy:
- 3x engineer
- 1x stealth APC
- 1x Microwave tank

The Stealth APC (with engineer inside) has to go through the gate when an harvester open it, then, you must go to the 3 helipad where the 3 apaches from the retaliation team wait and capture them. Stealth APC come back to the starting area.
Then, one of your apache must attack an harvester only one time and wait behind the microwave tank (The microwave tank has not moved since the beginning of the game) instead of reload his weapon. Because of this, the retaliation team will try to kill the apache, the microwave tank will attack a light tank, the 3 apache will destroy the other light tank and the stealth APC will crush the 2 flamme thrower infantry.
From there, you can freely destroy the defense with apaches because there is no SAM, just be careful when the bikes escort approach.

Scenario 2 :

Easiest strategy:
- 5x Demo truck Very Happy

Other strategy :
- 4x Microwave tank
- 1x MAD tank

Do I really need to explain the strategy?

Scenario 3 :
Allied send cruisers as patrol ? It seems very risky for them.

For this scenario, I consider that the ships are close enough to the beach to be attacked.

Quote:
if possible eliminate the naval threat

So it's optional.

- 1x Stealth tank
The enemy can't see you, so you can traverse easily.

If we must destroy the ship :
- 4x Tesla tank
- 1x Mobile repair vehicle
Tesla tank can hit very hard and move fast enough to not receive a lot of damage from the ships. Before attacking the next ship, repair your tanks.

Scenario 4 :
Easiest strategy:
- 5x Mammoth tank
If the patrol spread out, you just have to kill them one by one and wait to heal yourself, the defenses are easy to destroy because there is only flame towers

Harder strategy:
- 1x Hijacker
Same strategy but before, you must capture the enemy heavy tank, go near the mammoth tank and wait to be destroyed, when the vehicle is destroyed, the Hijacker will exit and you can capture the mammoth tank easily without been attacked by his secondary weapon.

If there is a tiberium field :
- 1x Cyborg
Same strategy, you just have to heal yourself before attacking the next tank and level up before attacking the mammoth tank
_________________
I lost all my data ! >w<

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Einhander
Light Infantry


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great input Sombracier!
Thank you for taking the time to weigh in on this for me. I really enjoyed the hijacker plan, creative.

If anyone else has input on how they would approach these scenarios please let us know. Smile

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thehx
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 24 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for scenario 1, you might possibly abuse the fact that AI would probably lose the target if it goes underground, so, 5 termites split in a way that one provokes the retaliation squad and the rest take out power plants and, if they can, helipads.

When the retaliation squad approaches your single termite harassing the harvester with cruel but righteous intentions, it goes just as Leo suggested – that is, deeper, – and then straight to the group of the remaining 4 termites that is currently rummaging through the enemy base in hopes that the map maker didn't put the power plants in an inaccessible zone.

PS. I wonder where will the choppers go if there are no more pads?

PPS. Are casualties in this challenge acceptable at all?

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Einhander
Light Infantry


Joined: 17 Apr 2014

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casualties are nothing to worry about in these scenarios, however I must ask that all input focus on what is stated and adding additional buildings or units will tamper with the results I am looking for. However as Sombracier did by making assumptions of additional possibilities at the beginning of their post can prove to be beneficial.

Thank you thehx for your input, the termite plan and implementation could indeed work well.

I look forward to additional input as well, so if anyone would like to take another crack at it or if someone has a different perspective please feel free to let us know here. Smile

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Sombracier
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 03 May 2014

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I must ask that all input focus on what is stated and adding additional buildings or units will tamper with the results I am looking for.

The problem is, we MUST make assumptions because many details that might have been helpful are missing, especially for scenario 1, the problem is that the situation requires us to be very strategic whereas many details totally change the way of approaching the problem. I'll give you an example for Scenario 1:

- If I attack the harvester, does the retaliation squad move ? If the retaliation squad don't move, that means I must attack the defense and deal the retaliation squad at the same time, in this case, personally, I can't win with only 5 units.

- Where are the power plants ? I don't think the obelisk are power off, so that means there is power plants somewhere. Outside of the map ? Reachable ? Defended by something ?
Like Thehx, I had the termite strategy in mind but I thought power plants were too well defended in the main base. That's why I did not propose this strategy. If we can destroy the power plants we can deal with less defenses which is very interesting for only 5 units.

- Where are the retaliation squad ? We do not know where the squad is. Does the squad wait next to the defenses ? In a possible main base (because of this, the squad will take a little time to come, which would allow us to do a some things before they arrive) ? Are reinforcement from outside of the map (so we can't attack them first) ?

- Does the apaches can reload his weapon (have a helipad) ? If apaches can attack one time only, maybe it's not necessary to have anti-aircraft units. If they can reload, where are the helipads ? Reachable ? Defended by something ?

- Does the AI can repair building ? It's very important to know this because the repair is very fast in DTA, so having only one long range unit is not enough to destroy defense

- You say there is escorts of rocket bikes passing through with a patrol of minigunners and rocket infantry, how many ? You don't deal with 2 rocket bikes, 3 minigunners and 1 rocket infantry the same way has 5 rocket bikes, 10 minigunners and 5 rocket infantry.
_________________
I lost all my data ! >w<

Last edited by Sombracier on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Tactics of Small Squads in Unique Scenarios Reply with quote

Some quick answers. I'm not making up an exact unit composition, but just writing out my first thoughts.

Scenario 1:
Artillery units (= Nod or Allied Mobile Artilleries, Nod SSM, GDI Rocket Launchers or Soviet V2 Launchers) are pretty much necessary for the obelisks. The artillery can also easily deal with the patrolling infantry and the retaliating flame thrower infantry. The light tanks and bikes I'd counter using rocket infantry or tanks of my own. The Apaches can't do much damage to tanks, although it's possible that they'd target the artillery, in which case they'd be destructive. So, against them I'd need (again) rocket infantry or some vehicles with AA capabilities, like Mammoth tanks.

By far the easiest unit composition here would be a Soviet Behemoth supported by a couple of Mammoth tanks.

Scenario 2:
Artillery would be the obvious solution. Something more creative would be using 2 Microwave tanks to shut down the AGTs, so a few flame tanks could then deal with all the defenses. A raw vehicle attack would likely be too expensive.

If I'm allowed to just "breach" the defenses instead of destroying them, a group of bikes could just move past the defenses (although with some damage).

If I had Allied units, a Chrono tank would out-range the regular guard towers and destroy them without getting hit. Two AGTs probably wouldn't be very hard to destroy afterwards.

Scenario 3:
The naval AI can be dumb and hug shores / bridges with its ships even when its target is reachable from the far sea, so I could attempt to exploit that. But if it plays well and actually utilizes the Cruisers' range, vehicles couldn't do anything about them, so I'd need ships of my own or aircraft for taking them out.

If ships or aircraft weren't available, I'd just move through the bridge as quickly as possible, preferably with fast units. Bikes for example can most likely avoid pretty much all damage from the cruisers and also most damage from the frigates thanks to their speed, and slower scout units like Buggies, Humm-vees and Rangers can do the same to a lesser extent. Regular tanks would get damaged, but possibly not too much so, either.

Stealth tanks could obviously pass the bridge safely.

Scenario 4:
I'd wait for the patrol to spread out and attack the lone units. Any unit composition that can deal with tanks and also has at least 1 unit for dealing with the tesla troopers would work. As an example, a dozen rocket infantry (they also out-range the flame turret, since the AI doesn't know how to micro the flame turret to kill the rocket infantry with area damage) and a few scouts or a single artillery would likely do. Or even full infantry, since half a dozen minigunners could also kill the shock troopers when supported by the rocket infantry.

Microwave tanks could also be useful here, a couple of them paired with pretty much anything that could out-range the flame turret and deal with the shock troopers would already win this scenario.

Sombracier's hijacker idea for this scenario is pretty awesome though Smile Although you'd have to be careful to avoid getting your hijacker killed by the Mammoth tank's missiles, or by the heavy tanks (since there's 5 of them)
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