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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Name for XWIS-only Ares (Mars now. Unless other ideas?)
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AresS.dll is now Sol.dll
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 3 ]
No
50%
 50%  [ 3 ]
Saqr.dll
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject:  Name for XWIS-only Ares (Mars now. Unless other ideas?)
Subject description: Details inside
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One point where Ares ...annoys me is when it came to the game version.

Currently, Ares needs retail YR 1.001, and doesn't accept, say, XWIS' YR 1.001.

Now, I have asked Alex about this decision, and he said that XWIS+Ares don't always mix, as users/testers have apparently experienced crashes with that mixture while retail+Ares worked fine. (As far as I understod it, anyway)

After talking a bit with him, he came up with the idea that I should mod Ares so it no longer looks up the EXE version.
He said it was to be purely for testing (XWIS is the only version, both RA2 and YR, that I can run on Loser10, and even then I need cxtian's patch).

But I thought of making this 'new' Ares more widespread, actually allowing something akin to TI's and DTA's (and ORA's) stand-alone releases.
I can confirm XWIS seems to work CnCNet as intended, too. (although whoever still works on it should have CnCNet ask the user if it should delete the rendering DLLs it finds)

So far, the only problem I have encountered with the Ares+XWIS was when you exit the game: if you have QuickExit=no, the XWIS YR will crash. I see this as strange because it worked before, specifically back when MO 3.0 was released.
The Mental Meisters said on their FAQ back then that XWIS would work, and I immediately took that advice.
I don't know what changed, but QuickExit=no did NOT crash the game then (on my WinXP, and is still valid today. I would reconfirm, but the mod takes too long to load on my HPMini #Tongue).

So, the point: I want to release a custom build for Ares so pretty much everyone who doesn't have the retail EXEs can use it, be it for testing or packaging it with mods. The only mod I'll allow myself here, of course, being the skipped version-chk, and what-ever else is needed.
BUT I'm also aware of a major drawback: if XWIS and Ares really don't mix too well, then the ignorant/uninformed user would go on to blame Ares and/or the developer, instead of being reasonable and try to figure what happened.
This would then lead to a PR issue that Alex is (and rightfully so) afraid of.

So I came with a new idea: rename the custom Ares, that'd have me, and ONLY me, as the developer refered to in-game outside the credits.
That way, I hope, any crashes/incompatibilties/problems would be blamed on ME, and not Alex.

Do not get me wrong, I do NOT intend to rip-off Alex's (and others') work and call it my own, but, frankly, I see no other way on how to make Ares usable for all, while problems would be blamed on me and not the original Ares developers.
I respect the developers for their hard work, I really do, but it annoys me to no end that we need retail versions, be it for testing or spreading the mod.

If Alex doesn't wish for a such a custom Ares to exist, even though there'd no more 'legal' ties that generate bad PR for him, then please respond with a no, and then this topic is dead.
No need to explain, just a simple no, and I'll keep the customized Ares for myself and maybe PPM (only for those who can't use Visual Studio).

If anyone else has any other ideas, please post them here. Please do not flame me or this post. Be constructive instead, and take your time reading the whole post before replying.

If no-one has any problems with this, I might go with AresS.dll, but that sounds a little too similar to Ares #Tongue

And, again, in case it wasn't clear: I don't plan on Alex and the Ares team being directly refered to as the creators of 'AresS' in-game anywhere outside the credits. If anything, I could say AresS is a 'heavily' modded, custom-built Ares for XWIS only, or something drastic. This'll re-route any hate to me.

And, again, @Alex: If you refuse, just post a no here, and ask Banshee or someone else to lock this topic.
And no need to explain things over Skype either #Tongue

Any suggestions for names? I want something cool, and I suck at names. AresS is the best I can come up with #Tongue
EDIT: Probably should've mentioned I want a name starting with S for Supremacy (the mod that will primarily use the new DLL, and to make sure to stir AWAY from Alex and the original Ares) Embarassed
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Last edited by TAK02 on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:27 am; edited 10 times in total

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phoenix.

Or Mars...
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Phoenix.

Or Mars...
Probably should've mentioned I want a name starting with S Embarassed
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G-E
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SucksToBeYou.

Seriously though, Ares == Mars, and the most logical substitute.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S is for Supremacy the same way F is for fire (that burns down the town), U for uranium (bombs) and N for no survivors Very Happy

And the whole point of the new name was to stir AWAY from Ares (and synonyms and substitutes) to ensure NO-ONE will connect the dots and blame a crash on Ares, and instead put it on Supremacy, MY mod, not Alex'.

And while I told you to be constructive, SucksToBeYou.dll sounds good enough, topic closed until further notice #Tongue

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
So far, the only problem I have encountered with the Ares+XWIS was when you exit the game: if you have QuickExit=no, the XWIS YR will crash. I see this as strange because it worked before, specifically back when MO 3.0 was released.
The Mental Meisters said on their FAQ back then that XWIS would work, and I immediately took that advice.
I don't know what changed, but QuickExit=no did NOT crash the game then (on my WinXP, and is still valid today. I would reconfirm, but the mod takes too long to load on my HPMini #Tongue).


MO3.0 was shipped with a retail YR 1.001 gamemd.exe hexedited to have the purple orb as it's icon instead of the Yuri emblem. The game worked back then only because this executable was used in all cases. However it's indeed correct that a post-MO3.0 Ares revision started producing bugs on the icon hexedit, which is why this was dropped. IIRC the repackaged XWISYR (asin the around-2016 installer) doesn't even contain a classic gamemd.exe.

Placing a YR 1.001 gamemd to an XWISYR folder still works to ensure Ares compatibility though. It always worked - that's what I'm doing for ages. This even includes Win10. You don't need any of these at all, just a random unedited 1.001 executable and you're good to go.
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AlexB
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Currently, Ares needs retail YR 1.001, and doesn't accept, say, XWIS' YR 1.001.

It's actually not that strict. Ares supports original CD, TFD and UC versions.

TAK02 wrote:
Now, I have asked Alex about this decision, and he said that XWIS+Ares don't always mix, as users/testers have apparently experienced crashes with that mixture while retail+Ares worked fine. (As far as I understod it, anyway)

XWIS is a moving target. If I support it, and XWIS changes something in a newer version, ...

TAK02 wrote:
So far, the only problem I have encountered with the Ares+XWIS was when you exit the game: if you have QuickExit=no, the XWIS YR will crash. I see this as strange because it worked before, specifically back when MO 3.0 was released.

And who is to blame? There's no coordination, and adding the QuickExit feature might have patched a piece of code the XWIS exe also patched. It could very well have been the other way around. Also, this cannot be excluded from happening again in the future.

TAK02 wrote:
I want to release a custom build for Ares so pretty much everyone who doesn't have the retail EXEs can use it, be it for testing or packaging it with mods. The only mod I'll allow myself here, of course, being the skipped version-chk, and what-ever else is needed.

That's the easy part.

TAK02 wrote:
I'm also aware of a major drawback: if XWIS and Ares really don't mix too well, then the ignorant/uninformed user would go on to blame Ares and/or the developer, instead of being reasonable and try to figure what happened.

That's only one drawback. First, users don't know and don't want to know the intricacies of Ares. Or how everything works, as long as it works. Users are gamers, and they want to play. Only a handful of people are interested in details.

The issue is support. Who would support it? Who (single person or group) would be responsible actually doing the work needed to make and keep them compatible? Doing this once and then leaving it on auto-pilot will most likely not end well.

TAK02 wrote:
This would then lead to a PR issue that Alex is (and rightfully so) afraid of.

PR is one thing. Another is that I got a lot of bug reports and crashes with crash dumps, and I can't tell how many hours I spent analyzing them, just to find out that the exe has been modified. Nowadays that class of crashes is virtually gone, for a reason, and the reason is that one additional check.

What I mean with PR is the issue that Ares replaces the game's error handling, and that catches a lot of things, from different origins. Coding errors in Ares but also in the original game, sometimes driver issues, anti-virus issues, sometimes OS compatibility issues. Thus, Ares slaps its name on the error dialog and tells people to sent those crash reports to the Ares devs (which I have been the only instance of for many years now), essentially seizing responsibility for the crashes.

I'm not saying that Ares is bug free and I don't make mistakes. I make plenty. In particular, the last testing builds contained a handful of fixes for regressions I only introduced recently. The public releases on the other hand are pretty stable, and when I look at crashes from MO, it is virtually always a certain crash (VBB) that is rooted in another dll, yet still have to spend time on it because Ares is the catch-all.

Where possible, I try to get around these false positives, because they increase my workload, decrease my productivity, and also result in my hobby becoming a nusiance.

Alas, there's no good solution. I can only tell what was wrong after already investing time to analyze the crash. I can only come to the conclusion that something isn't Ares's fault after reaching that conclusion, which always is at the end of the investigation process. The time needed is variable, ranging from a few minutes, if the crash happens in the game code, to hours if it's more complicated. Usually it's in the middle, hours is extreme, though there were crashes that took weeks to resolve finally (see 0.3 month-long delay).

TAK02 wrote:
So I came with a new idea: rename the custom Ares, that'd have me, and ONLY me, as the developer refered to in-game outside the credits.
That way, I hope, any crashes/incompatibilties/problems would be blamed on ME, and not Alex.

If everything indeed works fine despite the QuickExit thing, who get's the credit then?

TAK02 wrote:
If Alex doesn't wish for a such a custom Ares to exist, even though there'd no more 'legal' ties that generate bad PR for him, then please respond with a no, and then this topic is dead.
No need to explain, just a simple no, and I'll keep the customized Ares for myself and maybe PPM (only for those who can't use Visual Studio).

I'm not saying no. I'm rather giving my reasoning, and explaining why things are the way they are. Also, I can only encourage people to speak up if something is wrong.

TAK02 wrote:
If no-one has any problems with this, I might go with AresS.dll, but that sounds a little too similar to Ares #Tongue
And, again, in case it wasn't clear: I don't plan on Alex and the Ares team being directly refered to as the creators of 'AresS' in-game anywhere outside the credits. If anything, I could say AresS is a 'heavily' modded, custom-built Ares for XWIS only, or something drastic. This'll re-route any hate to me.

The license permits to do what you want, as long as the name isn't similar to Ares.

If I had to plan this out, I think I would have took Ares' source code and changed nothing aside from the check in question but the name (which is mentioned in some string constants, no need to change names of data types or function names) and the wording of the error dialog, no longer referring to Ares. That way, the differences to the original code would be minor, thus new Ares code could be supported easily by applying the same few changes.

Credit would go to XWIS and to Ares, while this "glue" code would be credited separately to whoever does the work on that.

If there's a current or previous XWIS exe (I have no idea how often it is updated), and the community has tested those versions together with Ares and they are known to work, I could "unlock" those particular known versions. This would require some testing, though, and most likely a redesign of the QuickExit feature.


TAK02 wrote:
And, again, @Alex: If you refuse, just post a no here, and ask Banshee or someone else to lock this topic.
And no need to explain things over Skype either #Tongue

It's nice you're asking, but I'm not in a position to deny you that. All power to you.

On a sidenote, community forums work best if the topics aren't locked.


TAK02 wrote:
Probably should've mentioned I want a name starting with S for Supremacy [...]


TAK02 wrote:
AresS


TAK02 wrote:
[...] starting with S [...]

Consequent choice. #Tongue


Graion Dilach wrote:

MO3.0 was shipped with a retail YR 1.001 gamemd.exe hexedited to have the purple orb as it's icon instead of the Yuri emblem. The game worked back then only because this executable was used in all cases. However it's indeed correct that a post-MO3.0 Ares revision started producing bugs on the icon hexedit, which is why this was dropped.

I don't remember the details, but wasn't this because the icon was larger than the original (that is, not just 16 or 256 colors and low res)? MO 3.0 used Ares 0.4, which already had the check in question (it was added almost to this day 5 years ago).

I don't remmeber what was changed, though confusing the OS compatibility layer by editing the exe and changing the filename definitely didn't help. Laughing
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering that 100% of all YR players moved from XWIS to CnCNet already (for good reason), is this "AresS" really worth the effort?
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
Graion Dilach wrote:
MO3.0 was shipped with a retail YR 1.001 gamemd.exe hexedited to have the purple orb as it's icon instead of the Yuri emblem. The game worked back then only because this executable was used in all cases. However it's indeed correct that a post-MO3.0 Ares revision started producing bugs on the icon hexedit, which is why this was dropped.

I don't remember the details, but wasn't this because the icon was larger than the original (that is, not just 16 or 256 colors and low res)? MO 3.0 used Ares 0.4, which already had the check in question (it was added almost to this day 5 years ago).

I don't remmeber what was changed, though confusing the OS compatibility layer by editing the exe and changing the filename definitely didn't help. Laughing


Unless there were additional versions for the Thearlauncher after I left MO, the icon sizes were the same - I was also worried that any size change in the icon would offset the actual instructions and I did the first two versions with a degraded orb for sure. The first version did have the credits/copyright metadata changed but that bugged out after a while already, so I had to revert that.

It's quite possible that the compatlayer-confusion caused most of the issues during 3.0 deployment ultimately.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
Now, I have asked Alex about this decision, and he said that XWIS+Ares don't always mix, as users/testers have apparently experienced crashes with that mixture while retail+Ares worked fine. (As far as I understod it, anyway)

XWIS is a moving target. If I support it, and XWIS changes something in a newer version, ...

I wasn't aware XWIS updates its EXEs. I really need to see if the 'old' XWIS EXEs have the same error on new Ares.

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
I want to release a custom build for Ares so pretty much everyone who doesn't have the retail EXEs can use it, be it for testing or packaging it with mods. The only mod I'll allow myself here, of course, being the skipped version-chk, and what-ever else is needed.

That's the easy part.
What do you mean?

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
I'm also aware of a major drawback: if XWIS and Ares really don't mix too well, then the ignorant/uninformed user would go on to blame Ares and/or the developer, instead of being reasonable and try to figure what happened.

That's only one drawback. First, users don't know and don't want to know the intricacies of Ares. Or how everything works, as long as it works. Users are gamers, and they want to play. Only a handful of people are interested in details.

The issue is support. Who would support it? Who (single person or group) would be responsible actually doing the work needed to make and keep them compatible? Doing this once and then leaving it on auto-pilot will most likely not end well.
TAK02 wrote:
This would then lead to a PR issue that Alex is (and rightfully so) afraid of.

PR is one thing. Another is that I got a lot of bug reports and crashes with crash dumps, and I can't tell how many hours I spent analyzing them, just to find out that the exe has been modified. Nowadays that class of crashes is virtually gone, for a reason, and the reason is that one additional check.

What I mean with PR is the issue that Ares replaces the game's error handling, and that catches a lot of things, from different origins. Coding errors in Ares but also in the original game, sometimes driver issues, anti-virus issues, sometimes OS compatibility issues. Thus, Ares slaps its name on the error dialog and tells people to sent those crash reports to the Ares devs (which I have been the only instance of for many years now), essentially seizing responsibility for the crashes.

I'm not saying that Ares is bug free and I don't make mistakes. I make plenty. In particular, the last testing builds contained a handful of fixes for regressions I only introduced recently. The public releases on the other hand are pretty stable, and when I look at crashes from MO, it is virtually always a certain crash (VBB) that is rooted in another dll, yet still have to spend time on it because Ares is the catch-all.

Where possible, I try to get around these false positives, because they increase my workload, decrease my productivity, and also result in my hobby becoming a nusiance.

Alas, there's no good solution. I can only tell what was wrong after already investing time to analyze the crash. I can only come to the conclusion that something isn't Ares's fault after reaching that conclusion, which always is at the end of the investigation process. The time needed is variable, ranging from a few minutes, if the crash happens in the game code, to hours if it's more complicated. Usually it's in the middle, hours is extreme, though there were crashes that took weeks to resolve finally (see 0.3 month-long delay).

The original plan was to do no more than remove the version-chk completely and call it a day. I'm not that into coding #Tongue
Of course, any problems would have to be blamed on me. That was the whole point of this, and why I asked you here. Besides, this 'AresS' is only meant for people who can't get their retail copies to work, because Micro$***, or don't want to pay EA just to play a mod.
Whether or not this is the 'right thing' to do is another matter. Personally, I refuse to buy anything from them. Especially C&C games.

As for problems from the two being incomaptible: that would be 'my' fault. I could say something like "use with XWIS at your own risk."

I could do something like renaming the original Ares to 'AresS', and package it with the mod, while I also add a 'patch' with the AresS as patch for XWIS-users only, "to be used at your own risk."

That is, until I find the time/motivation to actually dive into Ares. I'll not fail you then, master Razz
AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
So I came with a new idea: rename the custom Ares, that'd have me, and ONLY me, as the developer refered to in-game outside the credits.
That way, I hope, any crashes/incompatibilties/problems would be blamed on ME, and not Alex.

If everything indeed works fine despite the QuickExit thing, who get's the credit then?

That's the thing: you kinda scared me off from mixing the two Confused
So that's why I wanted to take full credit for AresS everywhere (except for the in-game credits) so no-one will think it was your Ares, but my AresS.
Does that make sense? Confused
I.E. not your fault or Ares', but mine because I'm 'lazy' or something.
AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
If Alex doesn't wish for a such a custom Ares to exist, even though there'd no more 'legal' ties that generate bad PR for him, then please respond with a no, and then this topic is dead.
No need to explain, just a simple no, and I'll keep the customized Ares for myself and maybe PPM (only for those who can't use Visual Studio).

I'm not saying no. I'm rather giving my reasoning, and explaining why things are the way they are. Also, I can only encourage people to speak up if something is wrong.

With everything you've done for the community (especially when compared to me) you'd have every right to deny me my pleasures in life Laughing

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
If no-one has any problems with this, I might go with AresS.dll, but that sounds a little too similar to Ares #Tongue
And, again, in case it wasn't clear: I don't plan on Alex and the Ares team being directly refered to as the creators of 'AresS' in-game anywhere outside the credits. If anything, I could say AresS is a 'heavily' modded, custom-built Ares for XWIS only, or something drastic. This'll re-route any hate to me.

The license permits to do what you want, as long as the name isn't similar to Ares.

Less talking, more names starting with S, thank you Smile

AlexB wrote:
If I had to plan this out, I think I would have took Ares' source code and changed nothing aside from the check in question but the name (which is mentioned in some string constants, no need to change names of data types or function names) and the wording of the error dialog, no longer referring to Ares. That way, the differences to the original code would be minor, thus new Ares code could be supported easily by applying the same few changes.
That was indeed what I had mind, yes.
AlexB wrote:
Credit would go to XWIS and to Ares, while this "glue" code would be credited separately to whoever does the work on that.
I'm not sure I understand. Could please re-phrase that? Embarassed

AlexB wrote:
If there's a current or previous XWIS exe (I have no idea how often it is updated), and the community has tested those versions together with Ares and they are known to work, I could "unlock" those particular known versions. This would require some testing, though, and most likely a redesign of the QuickExit feature.
As stated, it's possible the QuickExit bug is fixed by now, but that'd require testing, yes.
But as far as I knew, there's only one XWIS version, and I don't know if Ares can detect differing versions. As far as I know, there's only one XWIS YR, claiming to be YR 1.001.
Why is XWIS updated anyway?
AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
And, again, @Alex: If you refuse, just post a no here, and ask Banshee or someone else to lock this topic.
And no need to explain things over Skype either #Tongue

It's nice you're asking, but I'm not in a position to deny you that. All power to you.

Negative.
I'm pretty much asking you to give me bragging rights of having made Ares and being a major help to the C&C modding community, while leaving you alone and forgotten.
You have every right to deny it, as I do not wish rip-off other's work and lie "it's mine." But at the same time I don't you or your reputation suffering because of me.
I could be bluntly honest when I upload the version-immune Ares and say it's to be used at the gamer's own risk, but we all know honesty is no longer valued in the bigger scheme of things. Look at today's politicians. Blasted swine.

AlexB wrote:
On a sidenote, community forums work best if the topics aren't locked.
I was kinda afraid someone would wind up and start being an @** about this.
That, and I saw no reason to continue this discussion should you not wish for me to become the "one and only 'AresS-developer'" Confused

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
Probably should've mentioned I want a name starting with S for Supremacy [...]
TAK02 wrote:
AresS
TAK02 wrote:
[...] starting with S [...]
Consequent choice. #Tongue

I'd chose a name starting with S rather than one that doesn't because Supremacy is my mod's name, dingus #Tongue

AlexB wrote:
Graion Dilach wrote:

MO3.0 was shipped with a retail YR 1.001 gamemd.exe hexedited to have the purple orb as it's icon instead of the Yuri emblem. The game worked back then only because this executable was used in all cases. However it's indeed correct that a post-MO3.0 Ares revision started producing bugs on the icon hexedit, which is why this was dropped.

I don't remember the details, but wasn't this because the icon was larger than the original (that is, not just 16 or 256 colors and low res)? MO 3.0 used Ares 0.4, which already had the check in question (it was added almost to this day 5 years ago).

I don't remmeber what was changed, though confusing the OS compatibility layer by editing the exe and changing the filename definitely didn't help. Laughing

Graion Dilach wrote:
Unless there were additional versions for the Thearlauncher after I left MO, the icon sizes were the same - I was also worried that any size change in the icon would offset the actual instructions and I did the first two versions with a degraded orb for sure. The first version did have the credits/copyright metadata changed but that bugged out after a while already, so I had to revert that.

It's quite possible that the compatlayer-confusion caused most of the issues during 3.0 deployment ultimately.

Hmm. I wonder...
It's possible I still have the installer from back then, so I should be able to chk. I think the gamemd was renamed to gamemo, as well as there being the MO Launcher.
Does someone here have contact with Speeder or someone else on the MO team? Maybe they still remember or still have the installer for 3.0.

---

Thank you for taking your time.

Anyways, as I think Graion and Bittah have missed my point: what I wanted was to allow mods for RA2 and YR to be 100% stand-alone (as XWIS already does that by itself, I tested it and still am on Loser10. It works!), particularily the ones that rely on Ares (or, as is the plan for C&C S, make vesions compatible once with RA2 1.006, another with YR 1.001 and the main one with Ares/'AresS'. Maybe even TS/FS if there's enough time).

Literally the only thing you'd need would be to go to the XWIS website, install RA2&YR from there, then the mod (which may or may not use Ares), and have fun.

So no more CD, TFD, or UC YR. Only free YR, something XWIS is already doing Smile

Bittah Commander wrote:
Considering that 100% of all YR players moved from XWIS to CnCNet already (for good reason), is this "AresS" really worth the effort?

CnCNet can NOT get the campaigns to work as-is, and I have yet to find the setting where the battle, mapsel, mission and others are defined.
Until this happens, CnCNet will remain completely useless to me.
I even opened up a topic a while ago here asking on how to get it done, but I have had zero help so far.

On related note, where do I find Ares' INI controls? I want AresS to load only files that have 'ss' instead of 'md'.

Also on another related note: what do guys think of SucksToBeYou.dll Saqr.dll?
'Saqr' is the rough Arab pronounciation for buzzard/falcon/hawk, while Ares' logo is a vulture.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for dbl posting and bumping, but I made a mistake:
Saqr translates to falcon, hawk, buzzard, tercel.

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Starkku
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically the takeaway of this thread is that you want to take Ares and make it work with an illegal RA2 / YR game distribution (seriously, I am willing to eat my socks if Olaf actually has an explicit permission to distribute the game files like that) all while slapping your and your mod's name on it in not a particularly subtle plug. I would probably be more impressed if you actually had something other to show than just your desire to stamp your name on somebody else's work, like maybe a demonstration of some actual comprehension of the technical aspects involved and capacity to work on Ares instead of just all talk. Oh and you know, not wasting such talents on something as sketchy as XWIS.

TAK02 wrote:
CnCNet can NOT get the campaigns to work as-is, and I have yet to find the setting where the battle, mapsel, mission and others are defined.
Until this happens, CnCNet will remain completely useless to me.


Just because you can't get it to work doesn't mean that it is not supported. The client itself doesn't even use those files you mention but instead reads its own 'battle.ini' (two actually, one hardcoded to "INI/Battle.ini", with additional one that can be defined in ClientDefinitions.ini -> BattleFSFileName) for list of maps / campaigns. And for RA2/YR you also need to set ClientDefinitions.ini -> CopyMissionsToSpawnmapINI to no/false, because the spawnmap.ini method for launching them does not work. Game still needs mapsel.ini and missions.ini for everything else to work, though. Maybe battle.ini too, if so it should probably be identical to the one the client reads.

And just FYI, the bird in Ares logo is vulture.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starkku wrote:
I am willing to eat my socks if Olaf actually has an explicit permission to distribute the game files like that
I wouldn't risk such a bet #Tongue
Starkku wrote:
slapping your and your mod's name on it in not a particularly subtle plug. I would probably be more impressed if you actually had something other to show than just your desire to stamp your name on somebody else's work, like maybe a demonstration of some actual comprehension of the technical aspects involved and capacity to work on Ares instead of just all talk.
...you did read the entire post, yes?
I'm fully aware crashes are to be expected when working Ares with XWIS, and I thought the blow wouldn't go to Ares and Alex if a name-change happened.
Make no mistake, I AM willing to learn, but at my own pace. And right now is NOT a good time.
Starkku wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
CnCNet can NOT get the campaigns to work as-is, and I have yet to find the setting where the battle, mapsel, mission and others are defined.
Until this happens, CnCNet will remain completely useless to me.

Just because you can't get it to work doesn't mean that it is not supported.
I know that! MO got it to work, but I have no idea how, and I hadn't gotten help so far with that.
Starkku wrote:
The client itself doesn't even use those files you mention but instead reads its own 'battle.ini' (two actually, one hardcoded to "INI/Battle.ini", with additional one that can be defined in ClientDefinitions.ini -> BattleFSFileName) for list of maps / campaigns. And for RA2/YR you also need to set ClientDefinitions.ini -> CopyMissionsToSpawnmapINI to no/false, because the spawnmap.ini method for launching them does not work. Game still needs mapsel.ini and missions.ini for everything else to work, though. Maybe battle.ini too, if so it should probably be identical to the one the client reads.
What I've been looking for. Thank you. Although, shouldn't it be possible to change this hard-coding? The CnCNet files are at GitHub. Will Visual Studio do the trick?

(related: how do I change the game reading ss suffix like MO reads mo suffix instead of md?)

Starkku wrote:
And just FYI, the bird in Ares logo is vulture.
Alex told me that 20+ minutes ago #Tongue
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Starkku
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
What I've been looking for. Thank you. Although, shouldn't it be possible to change this hard-coding? The CnCNet files are at GitHub. Will Visual Studio do the trick?


Changing the hardcoding is not necessary, simply just use the other one for which the filename is already customizable. There is no functional difference, only one being that if the first file is present the maps declared on it are listed first.

TAK02 wrote:
(related: how do I change the game reading ss suffix like MO reads mo suffix instead of md?)


Mental Omega's spawner DLL does this for it, along with some other changes. Other than that, hexediting the game executable I guess? Not necessarily a good idea, doing something like Red-Resurrection does where it copies the necessary game files from main RA2 folder along with the mod files to a subfolder upon installation is probably a better option to avoid compatibility problems with other mods - even if it comes at cost of disk space. Tangentially related, changing name of gamemd.exe to anything else is a especially bad idea, as it is likely a direct catalyst to the 'compatlayer-confusion' GraionDilach mentioned earlier.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starkku wrote:
Mental Omega's spawner DLL does this for it, along with some other changes.
That still doesn't answer the question of what exactly they did to get it to work like that.
Starkku wrote:
doing something like Red-Resurrection does where it copies the necessary game files from main RA2 folder along with the mod files to a subfolder upon installation is probably a better option to avoid compatibility problems with other mods - even if it comes at cost of disk space.
Huh. Didn't even come into mind. Now I just need to know how to make an installer do that #Tongue
Starkku wrote:
Tangentially related, changing name of gamemd.exe to anything else is a especially bad idea, as it is likely a direct catalyst to the 'compatlayer-confusion' GraionDilach mentioned earlier.
I'm still not sure what you and Graion mean with compatlayer-confusion.
Do you mean compatibilty settings messing up?
And I wasn't refering to changing the name of the EXEs (aside from the mod launcher), just the files.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Anyways, as I think Graion and Bittah have missed my point: what I wanted was to allow mods for RA2 and YR to be 100% stand-alone (as XWIS already does that by itself, I tested it and still am on Loser10. It works!), particularily the ones that rely on Ares (or, as is the plan for C&C S, make vesions compatible once with RA2 1.006, another with YR 1.001 and the main one with Ares/'AresS'. Maybe even TS/FS if there's enough time).

Literally the only thing you'd need would be to go to the XWIS website, install RA2&YR from there, then the mod (which may or may not use Ares), and have fun.

So no more CD, TFD, or UC YR. Only free YR, something XWIS is already doing Smile

Bittah Commander wrote:
Considering that 100% of all YR players moved from XWIS to CnCNet already (for good reason), is this "AresS" really worth the effort?

CnCNet can NOT get the campaigns to work as-is, and I have yet to find the setting where the battle, mapsel, mission and others are defined.
Until this happens, CnCNet will remain completely useless to me.
I even opened up a topic a while ago here asking on how to get it done, but I have had zero help so far.

The purpose of both CnCNet and XWIS is to offer a service to play C&C online. Remember that unlike TS, YR isn't freeware and while the YR CnCNet client is certainly capable of providing access to the campaigns (you only need to look at DTA, TI and MO to confirm this), it simply wouldn't be legal to release free a stand-alone YR package with all original missions included (which naturally also means you wouldn't be allowed to share it at PPM either).

In other words, the YR CnCNet client is intentionally only available as an add-on for YR and access to singleplayer missions was also intentionally left out so that the client can't be (mis)used as a no-cd crack. This of course doesn't stop you from creating a YR mod that includes its own original missions while still using the CnCNet client, just like MO has done.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

Bittah Commander wrote:
Remember that unlike TS, YR isn't freeware

Yeah, unfortunately.
Bittah Commander wrote:
the YR CnCNet client is certainly capable of providing access to the campaigns (you only need to look at DTA, TI and MO to confirm this)

Oh, it's confirmed alright. The question of how to get them to work/enable them was the real question. Maybe you know something about that Starrku doesn't? He already answered that particular question.
Bittah Commander wrote:
it simply wouldn't be legal to release free a stand-alone YR package with all original missions included (which naturally also means you wouldn't be allowed to share it at PPM either).

What if I were to share the XWIS package on ModDB as-is on the RA2/YR forum/group/whatever, and provide links in my mod's releases' description?
I never intended on making an 'ultimate pack'.
Bittah Commander wrote:
In other words, the YR CnCNet client is intentionally only available as an add-on for YR and access to singleplayer missions was also intentionally left out so that the client can't be (mis)used as a no-cd crack.

I'm well aware. But XWIS doesn't exactly come with those missions.
Bittah Commander wrote:
a YR mod that includes its own original missions while still using the CnCNet client, just like MO has done.

That was the plan from the beginning.
Original missions will only be used for internal bug-tests.
Although... This would mean that I'd have to heavily modify the original missions, similar to what Red Resurrection did, right?
Except maybe to the point the original triggers can't be re-produced. I can only modify terrain cosmetics (like maybe 1%-5% of a map), now that I have the TX, not everything in that IsoMapPack section.
Any thoughts on this one?

In other news, I read somewhere that the multiplayer/skirmish components of RA2&YR were free, while the campaigns (briefings included) weren't.

I'm not sure where I read that (possibly over at xwis.net. Somewhere).
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I told you that MO3.0 included the YR 1.001 original exe for itself to work with XWISYR as part of the installer. I was there back then. Hell, even New War did that for one of it's releases. Including that one file pretty much achieves your aim, putting the license issues aside.

Maybe you should read my posts instead of y'know... talking shit.

Also, last I used XWIS seriously, they offered that download, because the service still required a legit serial tied to your XWIS account. Since the download alone did not provide the serial, it didn't worked with online and since it didn't used the WW registry either, it was incompatible with XCC Mod Launcher as well. So it's quite much a win for them alone since noone plays plainYR offline these days.
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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can pay 10 euro or something to have the XWIS guys give you a code I believe?
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
I told you that MO3.0 included the YR 1.001 original exe for itself to work with XWISYR as part of the installer. I was there back then. Hell, even New War did that for one of it's releases. Including that one file pretty much achieves your aim, putting the license issues aside.

Maybe you should read my posts instead of y'know... talking shit.

Apologies, I was refering to that QuickExit bug I encountered recently with newer versions of XWIS and Ares.
I wanted to see who's at 'fault', Ares or XWIS.

Graion Dilach wrote:
Also, last I used XWIS seriously, they offered that download, because the service still required a legit serial tied to your XWIS account. Since the download alone did not provide the serial, it didn't worked with online and since it didn't used the WW registry either, it was incompatible with XCC Mod Launcher as well. So it's quite much a win for them alone since noone plays plainYR offline these days.

You are correct in that regard, but I've been able to confirm that CnCNet works flawlessly (so far) with XWIS, even online play (actually, only vanilla online play. I have yet to break my CnCNet #Tongue).

This means that in the end, even with CnCNet and XWIS installed, you still won't have access to any of the original missions and cinematics.
Which is where mods come in Smile

And regarding the launcher: I could do the same thing MO does for 3.3: a separate launcher (or just a simple EXE) that executes the custom CnCNet launcher, which in turn can use the XWIS EXEs and files (and injects Sol.dll into gamemd.exe).


If I'm missing something, please point it out.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP: 200 views, and only one vote. Is Sol and/or Saqr really that bad names?
You're welcome to make a suggestion even if you have no idea what's going on Wink
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
I'd chose a name starting with S rather than one that doesn't because Supremacy is my mod's name, dingus #Tongue

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Bittah Commander
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Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Bittah Commander wrote:
the YR CnCNet client is certainly capable of providing access to the campaigns (you only need to look at DTA, TI and MO to confirm this)

Oh, it's confirmed alright. The question of how to get them to work/enable them was the real question. Maybe you know something about that Starrku doesn't? He already answered that particular question.

You merely need to inspect the INI files of any one of these mods to see how we coded it. It's just a matter of modifying INI\Battle.ini as Starrku already explained and modifying the client's main menu via \Resources\Yuri Theme\MainMenu.ini to add the hidden New Campaign and Load Game buttons back in.
TAK02 wrote:
Bittah Commander wrote:
it simply wouldn't be legal to release free a stand-alone YR package with all original missions included (which naturally also means you wouldn't be allowed to share it at PPM either).

What if I were to share the XWIS package on ModDB as-is on the RA2/YR forum/group/whatever, and provide links in my mod's releases' description?
I never intended on making an 'ultimate pack'.

While PPM surely can't be blamed for linking to a Mod DB page that contains this full YR package, there's a good chance that Mod DB itself will remove it. Remember that even MO isn't a stand-alone mod despite how large and popular it is, so releasing a mod that changes far less of the original game as stand-alone in comparison will naturally be just as much less justified.
TAK02 wrote:
Bittah Commander wrote:
a YR mod that includes its own original missions while still using the CnCNet client, just like MO has done.

That was the plan from the beginning.
Original missions will only be used for internal bug-tests.
Although... This would mean that I'd have to heavily modify the original missions, similar to what Red Resurrection did, right?
Except maybe to the point the original triggers can't be re-produced. I can only modify terrain cosmetics (like maybe 1%-5% of a map), now that I have the TX, not everything in that IsoMapPack section.
Any thoughts on this one?

You can do that, but it certainly wouldn't be enough to justify making your mod stand-alone. To justify it in my personal opinion, you'd have to change so much that people won't even know it's a YR mod unless you tell them (and unless you're more than half-way there already, you'd probably be better off using OpenRA for such an ambigious mod at this point).
TAK02 wrote:
In other news, I read somewhere that the multiplayer/skirmish components of RA2&YR were free, while the campaigns (briefings included) weren't.

I'm not sure where I read that (possibly over at xwis.net. Somewhere).

Not officially, for as far as I know. If this is true, not even the CnCNet staff knows about this, because they'd then certainly have released a stand-alone CnCNet YR online-only package already (with all campaigns stripped).
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

Bittah Commander wrote:
Not officially, for as far as I know. If this is true, not even the CnCNet staff knows about this, because they'd then certainly have released a stand-alone CnCNet YR online-only package already (with all campaigns stripped).
Never assume people know something. It's always possible they don't. Just like I still don't know how (*insert obvious tag*)= works #Tongue
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if Grant (who manages the YR CnCNet client) wouldn't know (which I find unlikely since even I'd be able to create such a package despite having never actually modded YR myself), he's in touch with plenty of people who certainly do know. The YR CnCNet client definitely isn't only only available as an addon because they prefer it that way.
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AlexB
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Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
XWIS is a moving target. If I support it, and XWIS changes something in a newer version, ...

I wasn't aware XWIS updates its EXEs. I really need to see if the 'old' XWIS EXEs have the same error on new Ares.

I don't know whether at all -- and if, how often. If it's not updated, then testing would become at least feasible.

TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
That's the easy part.
What do you mean?

Changing a few bits and recompiling is simple and quickly done. Supporting it is the real work.

TAK02 wrote:
The original plan was to do no more than remove the version-chk completely and call it a day. I'm not that into coding #Tongue
Of course, any problems would have to be blamed on me. That was the whole point of this, and why I asked you here. Besides, this 'AresS' is only meant for people who can't get their retail copies to work, because Micro$***, or don't want to pay EA just to play a mod.
[...]
As for problems from the two being incomaptible: that would be 'my' fault. I could say something like "use with XWIS at your own risk."

But that alone doesn't magically fix anything. It would say Ares everywhere, and the error dialog would still tell people to send crash dumps to me.

Nobody would blame you. You're expecting even more knowledge of Ares and the inner workings of the game than I do, and I already had a hard time convincing people that the common crashes are not Ares' fault.

TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
If everything indeed works fine despite the QuickExit thing, who get's the credit then?

That's the thing: you kinda scared me off from mixing the two Confused
So that's why I wanted to take full credit for AresS everywhere (except for the in-game credits) so no-one will think it was your Ares, but my AresS.
Does that make sense? Confused

It somehow doesn't feel right to remove all other credit... essentially you're just re-branding.

TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
I'm not saying no. I'm rather giving my reasoning, and explaining why things are the way they are. Also, I can only encourage people to speak up if something is wrong.

With everything you've done for the community (especially when compared to me) you'd have every right to deny me my pleasures in life Laughing

Prolly not. Nobody has such right.

TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
Credit would go to XWIS and to Ares, while this "glue" code would be credited separately to whoever does the work on that.
I'm not sure I understand. Could please re-phrase that? Embarassed

I was proposing to just keep Ares as it is, but change the error message in a way so Ares isn't pointed at when something crashes.

TAK02 wrote:
As stated, it's possible the QuickExit bug is fixed by now, but that'd require testing, yes.
But as far as I knew, there's only one XWIS version, and I don't know if Ares can detect differing versions. As far as I know, there's only one XWIS YR, claiming to be YR 1.001.
Why is XWIS updated anyway?

I don't know, because I have no experience with it. I can only support things I know of. I cannot guarantee that a (even hypothetical) future release wouldn't break compatibility, so a wildcard-support is a no-go. It's just one more responsibility for me or "the team".

TAK02 wrote:
I'm pretty much asking you to give me bragging rights of having made Ares and being a major help to the C&C modding community, while leaving you alone and forgotten.
You have every right to deny it, as I do not wish rip-off other's work and lie "it's mine." But at the same time I don't you or your reputation suffering because of me.

You don't have to. You can take credit for your work. Just remove the wording from the error dialog. That way, people aren't encouraged to send me stuff I'm not responsible for.

But... if there really is only one XWIS exe, it essentially has been tested already, and there's only a small chance it will ever be updated, I could officially support it, as I offered. At least that specific version, but require more testing if it should ever be updated. I can't say much about XWIS, and if it only touches network code, which Ares usually does not, and doesn't touch game logic, which is essentially the only thing Ares touches, then it might work out reasonably well.

TAK02 wrote:
Thank you for taking your time.

Sure.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Name for XWIS-only Ares (starting with an S for Supremacy) Reply with quote

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
XWIS is a moving target. If I support it, and XWIS changes something in a newer version, ...

I wasn't aware XWIS updates its EXEs. I really need to see if the 'old' XWIS EXEs have the same error on new Ares.

I don't know whether at all -- and if, how often. If it's not updated, then testing would become at least feasible.

I sent a PM yesterday to one of the XWIS Strike Team, as the Admin (Olaf) was unavailable. The message was apparently read "Yesterday, 11:42 PM".

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
That's the easy part.
What do you mean?

Changing a few bits and recompiling is simple and quickly done. Supporting it is the real work.

TAK02 wrote:
The original plan was to do no more than remove the version-chk completely and call it a day. I'm not that into coding #Tongue
Of course, any problems would have to be blamed on me. That was the whole point of this, and why I asked you here. Besides, this 'AresS' is only meant for people who can't get their retail copies to work, because Micro$***, or don't want to pay EA just to play a mod.
[...]
As for problems from the two being incomaptible: that would be 'my' fault. I could say something like "use with XWIS at your own risk."

But that alone doesn't magically fix anything. It would say Ares everywhere, and the error dialog would still tell people to send crash dumps to me.

Nobody would blame you. You're expecting even more knowledge of Ares and the inner workings of the game than I do, and I already had a hard time convincing people that the common crashes are not Ares' fault.

TAK02 wrote:
I AM willing to learn, but at my own pace. And right now is NOT a good time.
TAK02 wrote:
that's why I wanted to take full credit for AresS everywhere (except for the in-game credits) so no-one will think it was your Ares, but my AresS.


AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
If everything indeed works fine despite the QuickExit thing, who get's the credit then?

That's the thing: you kinda scared me off from mixing the two Confused
So that's why I wanted to take full credit for AresS everywhere (except for the in-game credits) so no-one will think it was your Ares, but my AresS.
Does that make sense? Confused

It somehow doesn't feel right to remove all other credit... essentially you're just re-branding.

TAK02 wrote:
I [...] take full credit for AresS everywhere (except for the in-game credits)

You and the Ares contributers will get your own section in the credits. As a "based off the brilliant work of".

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
AlexB wrote:
Credit would go to XWIS and to Ares, while this "glue" code would be credited separately to whoever does the work on that.
I'm not sure I understand. Could please re-phrase that? Embarassed

I was proposing to just keep Ares as it is, but change the error message in a way so Ares isn't pointed at when something crashes.

This is obvious. Imagine you're using Sol, got a crash, and it reads Ares.

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
As stated, it's possible the QuickExit bug is fixed by now, but that'd require testing, yes.
But as far as I knew, there's only one XWIS version, and I don't know if Ares can detect differing versions. As far as I know, there's only one XWIS YR, claiming to be YR 1.001.
Why is XWIS updated anyway?

I don't know, because I have no experience with it. I can only support things I know of. I cannot guarantee that a (even hypothetical) future release wouldn't break compatibility, so a wildcard-support is a no-go. It's just one more responsibility for me or "the team".

TAK02 wrote:
I AM willing to learn, but at my own pace. And right now is NOT a good time.
Go figure #Tongue

AlexB wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
I'm pretty much asking you to give me bragging rights of having made Ares and being a major help to the C&C modding community, while leaving you alone and forgotten.
You have every right to deny it, as I do not wish rip-off other's work and lie "it's mine." But at the same time I don't you or your reputation suffering because of me.

You don't have to. You can take credit for your work. Just remove the wording from the error dialog. That way, people aren't encouraged to send me stuff I'm not responsible for.

So all I have to do is have Syringe recoded to do Sol instead of Ares, and have people send the crash logs to Supremacy Studios instead of you.
Apologies for not being specific, but that was my intention from the beginning, which I probably worded completely wrong.
Then there's the issue of the credits: If I were to directly include you and the others, it would probably back-fire on both of us.
It could be more containable. I think. Something like the "based on" section mentioned previously.

AlexB wrote:
But... if there really is only one XWIS exe, it essentially has been tested already, and there's only a small chance it will ever be updated, I could officially support it, as I offered. At least that specific version, but require more testing if it should ever be updated. I can't say much about XWIS, and if it only touches network code, which Ares usually does not, and doesn't touch game logic, which is essentially the only thing Ares touches, then it might work out reasonably well.

TAK02 wrote:
I sent a PM yesterday to one of the XWIS Strike Team, as the Admin (Olaf) was unavailable. The message was apparently read "Yesterday, 11:42 PM".

TAK02 wrote:
I AM willing to learn, but at my own pace. And right now is NOT a good time.

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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP: Who-ever voted 'No', please enter your wish-name, thank you.

But please one that is completely unrelated to Ares and its synonyms, and, preferably, starts with S. Thanks
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sera?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you understand why did this project got the name "Ares" in first place?

I don't understand your blind desire that its name must start with S at all, specially when there is no greek God whose name starts with S.

If there is any greek God's name that might make sense for a multiplayer service of Ares would be Hermes, the God of trade.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: Sol is now invalid. Saqr and Sera are. Any way to edit/restart the poll?

cxtian39 wrote:
Sera?
Not bad. At all.
I might actually use that name. If not for the DLL, then for something else lore-related in Supremacy (or what-ever else I'll have in mind) Smile

Banshee wrote:
Do you understand why did this project got the name "Ares" in first place?
Interesting read. Though this settles it for me: the name needs to change, and away from that naming scheme.
Greek gods? Come on... Next thing I know you'll bring the Roman ones too.
I mean, sure, nice reference or what-ever you want to call it, but I do not wish to be a part of that.
I'm highly allergic to the belief/concept/idea/what-ever of multiple gods.

Another thing is that the XWIS-only DLL is meant to stir away from the original Ares in terms of error message and name, for the reasons mentioned above.
It didn't include the naming scheme, originally, but now that you've brought this to my attention, I should probably re-chk the meaning for Sol. AFAIK ATM, it means 'sun'.

EDIT: Sol is now invalid. Saqr and Sera are. Any way to edit/restart the poll?

Banshee wrote:
I don't understand your blind desire that its name must start with S at all, specially when there is no greek God whose name starts with S.

TAK02 wrote:
I do not wish to be a part of that.

Asides from Greek references, seeing as I'm the one doing the re-branding (which, I take it, you're alright with?) I think i'd have earned the right to call it by what I please #Tongue

The reason for my insistence on S is because of the Sol/Saqr/Sera/SucksToBeYou being originally intended for C&C S, not other mods, even though it could and should support them That, and we aren't called Supremacy Studios for nothing :p

Banshee wrote:
If there is any greek God's name that might make sense for a multiplayer service of Ares would be Hermes, the God of trade.

TAK02 wrote:
I do not wish to be a part of that.


EDIT: Sol is now invalid. Saqr and Sera are. Any way to edit/restart the poll?

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really think that Renegade, pd, Alex and any of those who helped to develop Ares believed on any greek God or took them seriously at some point? They are more like fictional mythological characters than anything sacred nowadays.

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Do you really think that Renegade, pd, Alex and any of those who helped to develop Ares believed on any greek God or took them seriously at some point? They are more like fictional mythological characters than anything sacred nowadays.

TAK02 wrote:
the XWIS-only DLL is meant to stir away from the original Ares in terms of error message and name [synonyms included], for the reasons mentioned above. It didn't include the naming scheme, originally

And while you statement is true too, the 'AresS' for XWIS will need to stir away from Ares' original naming scheme, now that I know it has one.
I was curious myself why Ares was chosen WAAAY back, but later took the name for granted, and forgot about it.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
I think i'd have earned the right to call it by what I please #Tongue
What have you earned? You've done nothing. You're DOING nothing except renaming a group of other people's thousands of hours of work, and you're even arrogant enough to rename it in a way that fits with your own "modding studio's" theme (something know one knows or cares about).

Alex is very diplomatic, and Ares' open source nature is very generous, but my god there needs to be a new license agreement that takes into account basic etiquette so people can't just come along and do this kind of thing while showing no humility, or care, or respect for the work that's being ripped off.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a reason I used this, Bolt: "#Tongue"

And I already explained why the re-brand is needed. Including my (natural) reluctance to ripping off anyone and anything.
That, and I already said the custom Ares will, on the surface, look like its own thing. But I did say the in-game credits would mention the custom Ares is indeed that: a custom built Ares, that relies heavily on the original Ares, and only exists to ensure compatibilty with all YR versions, especially XWIS.

And seeing as I asked for names for a custom Ares that is intended to be used with a mod that just happens to start with S...

The custom Ares is built for XWIS, and I aim to properly support it and keep it up to date once I get the chance.

Lastly, I'm not forcing Alex to partake in any of this.
I'm letting him decide what'll happen in the end. That includes changing his mind, and simply saying 'no' with no explaination.

Goes to show that some people don't read others' posts properly and then complain when their posts aren't read properly. Guess hipocrisy is human nature.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
There's a reason I used this, Bolt: "#Tongue"
"#Tongue" does not mean "I'm totally joking" or being ironic. That sentence wouldn't even make sense as something that would be said sarcastically but it does fit perfectly with the way you have conducted yourself on PPM, that you would act entitled about something like that.

TAK02 wrote:
That, and I already said the custom Ares will, on the surface, look like its own thing.
But it wouldn't look like its own thing, or BE its own thing. 99.99% of it is the same old Ares, doing the same thing. It would make a lot more sense to simply call it "Ares (XWIS Edition)" (for the ghost of VK) or something.

TAK02 wrote:
only exists to ensure compatibilty with all YR versions, especially XWIS.
Just changing Ares' check for the exe version would not ensure compatibility. The reason such check exists is because Ares hooks code into particular bytes of the executable, and if that executable has been edited there's a good chance it will be hooking into the wrong thing. To actually ensure compatibility you'd have to break down the XWIS exe, and figure out if everything is where it should be, and if its not then alter the Ares code appropriately. I doub't you'll do that.

It would be far easier, surely, just to not use the XWIS executable. Why not just use a vanilla one and the Ares built in CD check disabling function? Particularly for a mod, which is only where Ares is useful anyway.

TAK02 wrote:
And seeing as I asked for names for a custom Ares that is intended to be used with a mod that just happens to start with S...
And that's where the arrogance comes in. Taking a decade of work and naming it inline with your own mod. It's just so tacky.
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolt, leave him with his arrogance. It's a waste of time. One day, he'll understand that, to make a successful project, you need to associate it with the best and most popular projects that would make use of it. Of course, it has a price.

But it is also a waste of time, because I don't think it is going anywhere. He doesn't have the skills to do what he is proposing and I doubt he'll get the aid of someone who can do it.

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want your own Ares name? Make one from scratch and you will be granted the freedom to name it after whatever god you think of.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So let me get this straight: you guys are now ganging up on me because I asked for a specific name/naming scheme for an XWIS-compatible Ares?

Then I'll go with G-E's initiial suggestion of Mars.dll (would've taken Phoenix but that's rather a mouth-full, I think. Unless you guys insist?). Alternatively I'll stick with Sol.
Unless you've got other short names befitting of an XWIS YR DLL?

Or is it because I want to edit Ares and then re-name it and say it's mine?

Then re-read my first few (long) posts. I hate it as much as you do.
And not because I'll need to figure out how to ensure the new DLL isn't identified as actually being Ares outside the game. Again, refer here to my first few posts.

@Banshee: Any way of shutting down/changing the vote? I can't do anything here, even through the Edit of the first post.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polls can't be edited. You'll have to create a new one.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Polls can't be edited. You'll have to create a new one.
Not even by the admin? At least kill it..
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to bump, but I thought this might be important.

"Creating an XWIS account, accepting the Privacy Policy (http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/privacypolicy/) and Forum Guidelines (http://xwis.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=help&do=01&HID=18&hl=), as well as the registration of the product key supplied with the software are required to use the online features and / or services for the following titles: Command & Conquer, Command & Conquer Red Alert, Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun, Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun Firestorm, Command & Conquer Red Alert 2, Command & Conquer Red Alert 2 Yuri's Revenge, Command & Conquer Renegade." - RA2YR's EULA from the UC (on the house), Google Translate

In other words, EA is either behind XWIS or at least in support of it (but they most definitely know of it), so using it for stand-alone mod-releases might be in the moral grey area.
But where I'm sceptical behind XWIS' illegality is that there are tournaments (or at least there were) with winnable prizes. At least back when I first heard of it (MO3.0's release).

Either way, until I get a solid response from XWIS' Strike Team I won't do anything regarding that, as it might back-fire on you guys, never mind myself.


de_DE_eula.rtf
 Description:
Did you hear? I make up things like a lengthy EULA just for fun.

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 Filename:  de_DE_eula.rtf
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was common knowledge that XWIS is backed by EA as the official replacement for WOL.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
I thought it was common knowledge that XWIS is backed by EA as the official replacement for WOL.
Exactly. But does this mean that mods can include it in their installation so as to make the mod stand-alone?
I mean, XWIS is already compatible with non-Ares mods and CnCNet, so I see no reason why it would be illegal to release any RA2YR mod as stand-alone with XWIS's components pre-installed and included in a mod's package.

EDIT: Look what I found: http://xhp.xwis.net/
Spoiler (click here to read it):
"EA Partners with XWIS Community Service 21:02 Thursday 6 October 2005

   Greetings from your C&C Community Manager!

   To continue the ten year anniversary celebration of the widely popular
   Command and Conquer franchise, I am pleased to reveal EA's partnership
   with XWIS (XCC WOL IRC SERVER)!

   Through this partnership, all Command and Conquer games formerly
   supported by EA/Westwood Online will be redirected through XWIS, thus
   instituting XWIS as the main online game server management team. XWIS is
   a community driven online game server that launched in October 2003 to
   replace the XCC Community Ladder. The new and improved features enabled
   include chat, in-game ranks, matching filters, lobby monitoring,
   improved Quick-Match, and fully functional automatic ladders for clans
   and individual tournament players. The beauty of this partnership is
   that you won't have to download any external programs to utilize XWIS.
   All the enabled features and connections to the servers are already
   integrated into the supported games!

   I'm also excited to share with you that the Strike Team will be
   monitoring the banning and anti-cheat controls on a daily basis and will
   provide technical support as needed. The Strike Team is a website built
   of hardcore Command and Conquer fans and is sponsored by the EA German
   Community Team. Their goal is to ensure a controlled and fun online
   environment for all players.

   XWIS will commence a two week trial period with Command & Conquer Red
   Alert 2 and Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge. Once this
   trial is completed on Oct. 20th, XWIS will be supporting the following
   EA/Westwood online games:

   * Command & Conquer Red Alert 2
   * Command & Conquer Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge
   * Command & Conquer Tiberian Dawn
   * Command & Conquer The Covert Operations
   * Command & Conquer Red Alert
   * Command & Conquer Red Alert: Counterstrike
   * Command & Conquer Red Alert: Aftermath
   * Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun
   * Command & Conquer Tiberian Sun: Firestorm
   * Command & Conquer Renegade
   * Dune 2000
   * Nox
   * Emperor: Battle for Dune

   EA is 100% dedicated to the Command and Conquer franchise and wants to
   ensure a strong and secure online gameplay environment. Long live
   Command and Conquer! We hope to see resurgence in the legions of NOD and
   GDI followers claiming ground online.

   Good luck soldier. Hit the hot keys and get online with Command and
   Conquer!

   --Apoc

   APOC

   Community Manager & Marketing Liaison

   Electronic Arts LA

   "every day is community day""

This cofirms EA knowing of and backing XWIS. Now the question remains if modders can re-distribute it with their mods.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would EA backing XWIS make any difference to how re-distributable the XWIS installation is. Barring any specific permissions to the contrary it isn't.

Its not even clear if XWIS has permission to do it or if they just do it because EA don't care to enforce their right to prevent it.

Overall this sounds like a stupid idea that is being done for self serving reasons with little actual work or technical understanding from you.

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why am I not surprised, all this fuss about XWIS ARES which hardly very few even care for when it works for all other distributions so the reason is using XWIS YR with ARES to deliver stand-alone on this plan for your own mod...

XWIS "may" have gotten exception by stripping out single player content and keeping it purely multiplayer but there is nothing that would legally grant you any kind of permission to provide your stand-alone and like Blade points out XWIS may never had even such permission and EA merely tolerated it.

If Mental Omega asked EA and got refused for stand-alone, what is the chance you'd get permission with the XWIS build ? Oh right...you won't ask EA, just assume building your mod on top of XWIS RA2YR is the means to bypass the issue 'conveniently'

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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Blade & @Apollo Not just my mod, everyone's. But I don't see anyone doing anything regarding this.

Including you two and Bolt.

Call me arrogant, but be honest: If I hadn't asked for a new name for a custom Ares to prevent back-lash on Alex BECAUSE Ares as-is is incompatible with XWIS, none of you would've ever noticed the issue.
Why, I'm 100% sure you wouldn't even care. You still don't.

Then how will you get new fans if the most advanced engine (with or without Ares) can't be gotten easily and (worse) is unstable?

Frankly, I see no reason to discontiue what I have in mind for the custom Ares.
Your only arguments so far can be paraphrased to this: "you're dumb, you have no idea, you're arrogant, you don't know what you're doing".
You think that'll stop anyone? Hasn't stopped politicians, hasn't stopped EA, and will NOT stop me.

Hate me? I don't care. As long as Alex himself doesn't send me a C&D, I'll work on the custom XWIS-compatible Ares, while giving it an alt name to prevent any backlash on Alex, Ares, and mods that use Ares.
INCLUDING your precious MO and Red Resurrection. Which, by the way, don't work on my PC because retail gamemd sucks for today's Windows 10.
And if one guy gets such a problem, you can be sure others will too.

@Alex: You can send me a C&D anytime. I'll refuse to accept it tho if you don't get someone else or yourself to do this. Someone has to do the dirty work, and I already volunteered.

I try to do the community a favor for once, and even THAT backlashes on me. You want me to ask Banshee to ban me or something? I'm trying to do you all a favor with what I can. And this is what I get?

TAK02 wrote:
So much for the community. Laughing

My biggest issue is how you people are stubborn regarding this subject: wouldn't be good for YOU if I take it upon myself to at least TRY to make RA2 & YR more accessable? To try to bring more people into C&C and/or PPM and, most importantly IMO, YOUR mods?
My, such a welcoming community.

Don't get me wrong: I'm open to solutions to this problem. But so far only Graion has given me a possible solution: using the retail EXE he sent me.
But there's still the risk of it NOT working properly on newer systems, even with patches, a problem XWIS doesn't have.
Oh, and as long as this kind of problem(s) persist, I will NOT let up. Not until someone else who's more reliable than I ever could hope to be gets to work.
And so far, I've yet to see anything from you folks to fix this.
So no: I'll not stop. Even if it takes me years to understand what I'm dealing with, I'll still try. Do NOT try to stop me.

And here I thought we had a more open, more accepting community than others. Looks like I was wrong.
Then again, when I saw MO3 had its codes locked, I should've known from then this community doesn't take kindly to new members who think something should've or could've been done differently and/or could be used as a templete for something else. Though MO might've had that only to prevent easier "cheating", but there's no reason to keep doing that anymore with CnCNet's shiny cheat-detector. Yet MO still does it.
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m7 wrote:
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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your proposing a solution for a problem no one else seems to think exists, you need to show why the XWIS version needs an ares dll other than for the convenience of your mod. No one is going to take action on something that isn't an issue for them are they?

All this is a lot of talk and little action, just do what you are going to do and shut up about it because I doubt hardly anyone will care or notice.

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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blade wrote:
Your proposing a solution for a problem no one else seems to think exists, you need to show why the XWIS version needs an ares dll other than for the convenience of your mod. No one is going to take action on something that isn't an issue for them are they?
For one, there's the afroementioned QuickExit=no resulting in a crash before game exit (without confimration). Not that much of an issue, but there's no telling where else a potential problem is around.
And who the frig said it'll only be there for the convenience of MY mod?
TAK02 wrote:
Not just my mod, everyone's. But I don't see anyone doing anything regarding this.

Like I said: retail GAMEMD fails to work properly (if at all) on todays' systems, including my own. I try to provide a fix for and be useful for once to YOU and I get this response. At least I think I know now why this community is short on people who can do 3D.
Blade wrote:
All this is a lot of talk and little action, just do what you are going to do and shut up about it because I doubt hardly anyone will care or notice.
Give me time to get into Ares' code, would you?

But get to the point: WHAT is your problem here?
Do you hate that I'll change the name and take credit for the whole thing?
Do you hate the fact that I want a new name?
Do you hate that I proposed a fix for an issue few people have?
Do you hate that I said I would work on this?

I don't understand what the issue is (I'm too dumb, if Graion is to be believed). So pleas write it load and clear:
WHAT do you have against this? Why is this idea bad?

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