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TMP Editor issue
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Dutchygamer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject:  TMP Editor issue Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So yeah, has been a while isn't it? #Tongue

I've been getting into modding ORA recently, and I've run into an issue that I can't figure out. It's related to creating TMP files with TMP Editor 1.05 (unofficial).
After some trial and error I figured out how to create / edit tiles larger then 1x1 in the editor, by adding additional cells with an X / Y offset. This works fine for flat tiles, but now I want to create more complex tiles: cliffs. Not actual cliffs like in TS with height difference, but more RA1 style cliff tiles (to give the illusion of height difference). So far, I've cooked up the following:

When overlaid with 1x1 tiles, it looks like this:

As you can see, the actual tile covers more then the 2x2 cells, which is the idea. The problem is that it doesn't fit in a 2x2 cell in the TMP editor now; 2x2 cells is 60 pixels high, this image is 73 pixels high. Thus I can't import it cause it has to be an exact fit.

But! TS cliffs have the same issue. When I open one of the TS cliff tiles in TMP Editor, I see some interesting things:

The X Extra and Y Extra are apparently used to increase the size of the tile / canvas. If you enter a negative Y Extra amount for the top tile, the entire canvas is increased upwards, etc. With this information, I tried entering the neccesary X Extra and Y Extra for my own TMP tile: nothing. Entered values get reset when you hit OK. X and Y do get properly set for some reason.

Long story short: is this a known issue that you can't enter X Extra and Y Extra in TMP Editor 1.05 (unofficial), or am I doing something wrong?

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E1 Elite
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Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

X/Y refer to the art offset from origin (first cell top corner) and X/Y Extra refers to the art offset for extraimage. Has nothing to do with size.

As I recall, TMP Editor does have a bug whereby the extra image can't extend above the first cell, if you have more than 1 cell -- it won't save and might crash.

If you are making fake cliffs, you shouldn't even bother with heights and extraimage, just make interlocking flat art on flat tiles.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you add an extra image to a tile that didn't have one before you need to save the file & reopen it before changes the X/Y settings are kept. The bug that G-E mentioned can also be "fixed" by saving the file & reopening it too, then you can move the extra image above the first cell

For some reason when you add a new cell or extra image the program doesn't "register" the addition until the file has been saved.

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Dutchygamer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After closer inspection it seems to flat-out refuse to save the added cells at all, even when adding them 1-by-1 and saving / reopening in between. I will check out tomson's variant, see if that works better.
EDIT: Okay, so apparently I already was using tomson's version of TMP Editor, with the results as described earlier.

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tomsons26lv
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i specifically tried to fix that
¯\_(?)_/¯ olafs code
iirc it craps up on minus values

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sadly TMP Builder is worse, the only thing I really use it for is making a new tile with the cell size I want, and completing it in TMP Editor.

Oh and TMP Editor has another quirk, it saves cells in the order you added them, not by position, sometimes this causes glitches with larger tiles. Resaving them with TMP Builder will correct the order.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dutchygamer wrote:
After closer inspection it seems to flat-out refuse to save the added cells at all, even when adding them 1-by-1 and saving / reopening in between.


Did you resize the tile (right click, bottom option) before adding new cells? If you dont enlarge the tiles size any new cells outside of it's foundation will be deleted.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mig Eater wrote:
Dutchygamer wrote:
After closer inspection it seems to flat-out refuse to save the added cells at all, even when adding them 1-by-1 and saving / reopening in between.


Did you resize the tile (right click, bottom option) before adding new cells? If you dont enlarge the tiles size any new cells outside of it's foundation will be deleted.

... so that was what that magical function did. Now it saves the added cells properly. Many thanks Smile
Sadly, I still can't get it to save entered X Extra / Y Extra, even when saving in-between. I will see what happens if I try to modify an existing TS tmp file which has extra data.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just saving the file isn't enough, you also need to close it & then reopen it for the changes to take effect.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, so after some more trial and error I still can't get the damn thing to co-operate. Here is what I do:
-create new .tem file from scratch with TMP editor
-save without having done anything, close the file, reopen it
-resize to 2x2 cells
-save, close, reopen
-add an extra image
-save, close, reopen
-fix X / Y of extra image (30 / 15 for this one)
-save, close, reopen
-redo the previous 4 steps for extra image 2 and 3, so that I have four cells in total (coords are: 0 / 0, 30 / 15, -30 / 15, 0 / 30)
-save, close, reopen
-try to insert Y Extra of -13 of the first cell (the topmost)
-save, close, reopen
-Y Extra has not been saved

I see that when I've entered the Y Extra data it does mark the opened file as being modified (with the * after the file name), but I don't see any changes. Not when modifying the properties again, nor after saving, closing and reopening. I've also attempted to change up the X / Y coords of the newly added images so they appear above the first cell, but that doesn't work at all (as some of you have already mentioned).

The silly thing is, is when I open a WW TMP file with X / Y Extra, I can see the extra X / Y, I can modify it, and it directly updates the file preview. Is it something with creating files from scratch that doesn't work properly? Is it because I use RA2 sized cells instead of TS sized cells?

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is what I described earlier, welcome to the club.

To save time, TMP Builder is good for making a new tile with >1 dimensions, say 8x8, which you can save then go edit in TMP Editor. The only caveat is you'll have to copy zdata to every cell manually, which is still easier than doing all the offsets, and you can delete any unwanted cells in TMP Editor when you are done.

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I only found this topic now.

@Dutchy, since you're using ORA, you're not forced to use TMP tbh. OpenRA can use plain old SHPs for terrain, with each cell using the appropriate sprite index. I'm at work, bit incase I forget, leave a message on Discord and I'll explain it in detail.

Already suggested this same for Holy_Master months ago tbh, think he managed to set that up now.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What I do:

Create new tile.
Resize.
Insert 1 cell & then copy an image & the correct Z-data.
Add the rest of the tiles (the first cell will be cloned with the same image & Z-data) & position then.
Add extra image(s).
Save, close & reopen.
Reposition the extra image(s).

When I do this I can move anything anywhere (even above the top cell) & it correctly saves the positions in the properties.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After some discussion with Graion I figured out his workaround of using SHPs as tiles in OpenRA. As this fixes my issue, I'm sticking to SHPs for now. Still, many thanks for the suggestions Smile

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