Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:22 pm Post subject:
Yuri forces - unbalanced or not?
DCoder wrote:
"Use TibEd ... to make ... good" ? rofl
**Agrees Completely**
CCCP Gosho wrote:
Why the sarcasm?With TibEd very nice modified maps can be made.
Yeah, if you want screwed up maps.
DCoder wrote:
TibEd is only needed for those who can't comprehend manual editing, it also handicaps your abilities seriously, not to mention is capable of screwing up your files bigtime. Take note that no famous/respected mods were made in TibEd. I wonder why?
Yeah, TibEd is good for making "uber flying chrono monkeys with 1,000,000,000 hitpoints and 100,000 damage banana grenades OMG kekeke", but worthless for anything beyond that. This is not just my opinion, it's shared by every advanced modder I've seen.
Oh yeah, and it does not support Rock Patch.
**Agrees**
DCoder wrote:
Yeah, TibEd is good for making "uber flying chrono monkeys with 1,000,000,000 hitpoints and 100,000 damage banana grenades OMG kekeke"
That is so funnay rofl
Jon wrote:
..it's personal..but yuri sucks..
Heres a qustion for all people:
How does Yuri suck anyway?
Hes evenly balanced as the other two nationalities. The most impression I get when people say, "Yuri sucks *****" and other stuff, but its just that people think he sucks is because he has, "PSYCHIC POWERS" and can crontrol his enimies. Who cares. You have to now how to fight against Yuri in order to win, and you do it wrong, you loose. It just takes practice to defeat Yuri. If you think about it, hes very easy to defeat, in my opinion. _________________ Last edited by Nuclear General on Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
If you want to start a YR strategy topic, I suggest you start a new topic in the RA2 Editing forum / C&C Chat or something
Strike Team and CNCDEN forums contain a wealth of discussions regarding Yuri's unbalance. I would quote some stuff from the Den, but I can't, cause the great n00b protector Rolk banned me for saying TibEd-made chrono monkey is a noobism. So I can just quote from my memory, the unbalances that are in favor of Yuri:
1. Boomers. You can't stop them until they've done more damage than they're worth, or without spending more than the Yuri player did.
2. Magnetrons. Tank juggling is much too powerful, taking into account the duration that the tank spends floating in the air even after the Mag has let it go.
3. Slave Miners. Twice more armor than your ordinary miner, cannot be droned at all, serves as a mobile refinery as well, and the 5 Slaves working simultaneously gather as much ore as a Chrono Miner can carry in _one_ single trip.
4. Psychic Dominator. With a Nuke/Weatherstorm you have about five seconds to deploy a Force Shield over the target, cause you can see the falling missile/manifestating clouds. With a Dominator, you only have half a second between the time the head appears and the time it does the damage, and no chance your units will have time to escape.
5. Gen Mutator. Build it, build a shitload of Slave Miners, mutate and grind all the mutations. $20K easy, every five minutes.
6. Grinder. Steal soviet conyard, build an Industrial Plant, start pumping out and grinding MCVs. Industrial Plant knocks off 25% vehicle's cost, but the Grinder refunds the full unreduced amount. You get $750 extra for each MCV (the most expensive vehicle). Unfair.
7. Basic tanks. OK, this one doesn't favor Yuri, but it's still a very bad thing:
In RA2,
Grizzly ($700) and
Rhino ($900)
were pretty balanced, cause you could have 9 Grizzlies for the same price and time as 7 Rhinos, and that was a pretty even battle.
In YR,
Grizzly($700 , BuildTimeMultiplier = 1.5),
Rhino ($900, BuildTimeMultiplier = 1.3) and
Lasher ($700, BuildTimeMultiplier = 1.5)
are unbalanced - Grizzly/Lasher builds in very slightly less time than a Rhino, which means that by the time your opponent has built 7 Rhinos, you will have 7.8 Grizzlies/Lashers instead of 9 you had in RA2. This favors Soviets reasonably.
Not to mention Grizzly ("Medium" Tank) and Lasher ("Light" Tank) are completely identical in their stats, except that Lasher has a faster-flying projectile, so fares even BETTER against fast moving targets.
... Damn it, now I HAVE to split this off cause it doesn't belong in here. OK, RA2 editing forum it is. QUICK_EDIT
3. Slave Miners. Twice more armor than your ordinary miner, cannot be droned at all, serves as a mobile refinery as well, and the 5 Slaves working simultaneously gather as much ore as a Chrono Miner can carry in _one_ single trip.
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:59 pm Post subject:
Yuri obviously isn't totally balanced, but with a side so diverse, it would be a challenge to do regardless.
You missed out the fact that Yuri's basic defence is both anti-ground and anti-air, something that no other side has.
However:
1. Yuri has no anti-air naval unit. Both the Allies and Soviets may deploy naval units to stop large aerial assaults with ease, but Yuri can't.
2. One anti-infantry unit can completely stop Yuri's money flow, killing slaves as they spawn.
3. Chaos drones are almost completely useless unless in large numbers.
4. Yuri has no anti-air infantry, in fact Yuri's infantry are quite pathetic in comparison to the Allied and Soviet ones. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Ah, but the Gattling Cannon and bunkered Gattling Tanks make short work of any amount of airassaults.
With Yuri's `refinery` being so close to the slaves, it would make sense to place some units close to it for protection, heck, even the dumbass AI does patrol his refineries.
I agree on the other points, but still, the point XWIS doesn't allow yuri-vs-not-yuri quickmatches on naval maps is a pretty good proof what a problem Boomer is. QUICK_EDIT
Yuri is one of the oddest sides ever to be implimented in an RTS since the Zerg. Everyone seems to have something to complain about with him, and most are very valid, but some are just strengths or weaknesses with his respective side moreso than actual issues.
Some things that are real issues-
The Boomer: It's a super dreadnaught basically, and available from the time he plops the naval yard down. I think Westwood/EALA just thought the concept art for the unit was neat and never bothered thinking much about how it was actually to be implimented... Shame too.
The anti-air naval issue: Forget his bases, Yuri's navy itself lacks any form of anti-air defense. Although in the early game Boomers completely ruin the enemies, with enough destroyers (or a well placed dolphin and plenty of rocketeers) they are simply shreaded. This isn't a boomer issue, but simply a conceptual issue about Yuri.
The Refinery: It's the best, simply and wholly. The distance from his refinery to the ore field is constant, and very little. The miners provide an excellent supply of cash, that if gaurded with minimal effort, can put you at an economic advantage early and never let up until they start to venture into the enemy's base for their ore fields.
You see, the allies and soviets were ballanced in that the distance from ore field to refinery was usually the same, unless you could find a derrick near to a distance field and plop one down there. The allied miner had the time advantage of a trip out and then warping back, taking half the time, but brinning in one half the ore of the soviet miner. That's still an advantage though, as a little money over a short time leaves one more flexible than a lot over a long time (even if the same per a large unit of time). Compare Red Alert 1 miners with GLA workers in this. Which side can respond to emergencies, or mount a quick strike better? So hence why the soviets get another added bonus of a defence MG on their miners.
Yuri ruins all of this, and the fact his miners are 'soft' targets doesn't even factor in when you consider they are indeed free.
Chaos drones: Too weak, too expensive and the fault of their logic is that they are often one of the first targets of any enemy they beserk. I agree with Clazzy's sentiments on this, but I see this unit as like Crazy Ivan; simply a failure of conceptualizing a unique unit, and thusly it hardly ever being used.
Lasher: It's a Grizzly, only as Dcode pointed out, better. It seems to have commented out bits in it's rules that indicated it once had lower more 'ligth tank' like stats. One can make them more lighttankish and cheaper, but then their role changes a bit.
Magnetron: This is a rather odd unit, and would have worked fine as only an anti-building weapon. The 'unit juggling' I haven't experianced as much as the dropping-on-shit. One close enough to a Soviet or Allied refinery can instantly pick up and drop the miner, destroying it and the refinery. Very odd unit, very difficult to balance...
Things that are not issues-
The Gattling Cannon: It is a necessary comprimise here, although it can function as an anti-air or anti-infantry weapon like the others (and is better at both, arguably), it cannot fulfill both roles at once, and there are surprisingly simple counters. A tank to absorb some damage while you fly air units overhead, or a nighthawk to have it turn away while a SEAL moves in to C4 it off the map work. A bit of creative energy bumps it from the ranks of 'superdefense' to merely a normal one. Just another characteristic of Yuri.
The lack of anti-air infantry: On the land, $600 is all it takes Yuri to provide mobile AA for any attack group. A gattlihng tank/intiate group is very effective against most any target and there is no way to impliment an infantry unit which has AA that wouldn't either be overshadowed by the Gattling Tank or rendered obsolelete by it. I have to vastly disagree with Clazzy's generalization of Yuri's infantry, for they are often competant against the other sides' infantry, and have far more numbers of personnel capable against other infantry than the Soviets or Allies, especially early on.
The Grinder: Aside from the Brute exploit, it's a perfectly valid tactic to grind crap for money. If an enemy has the two techtrees for both a grinder and an industrial plant, and on top of that all the needed warfactories to produce MCVs at a fair rate, you deserve to get owned, and the other guy exploiting the grinder is the least of your concerns. This is really going out of one's way to break the logic of the game.
Psi-control: This is the one, final, end all killer of tank rushes, and is the main reason why Yuri's forces lack the numeric diversity of his enemies, he can simply capture anything he needs.
Lack of repairers: I know this hasn't been mentioned here, but it has elsewhere (C-gen in some ancient topic) and Yuri needs no repairers. If he could build repairing units, he'd have no need for a grinder. Besides, IFVs aren't that hard to capture and most maps people play on have hospitals and machine shops anyway. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
To add more salt to Boomers: When allies build dolphins, or soviets build submarines/squids, you get to see their shipyards animating and you know they are building something, and probably prepare for that. But, when Yuri builds Boomers, his Submarine Pen doesn't animate one bit and you can't tell he's building anything. He can just build that Sub Pen and leave it there, and you'll be sweating expecting a Boomer, while he launches a surprise ground force at you.
As if the superfast cruise missiles aren't enough of an annoyance already.
Also, Rattus, Dolphin ($500) + a bunch of rocketeers (x*$600) = most likely more than Sub Pen ($1000) + Boomer ($2000). Which means, even if you did kill my Boomer, you spent more than I did, hence I have more $ for the ground strike, which is knocking on your front door right now. Your rocketeers, should you try to reuse them, will fall pretty fast from a single gattling tank.
One more crap of Magnetron, pick up an unloading miner (CMON/HORV), and let it go anywhere. Voila, it won't be able to convert back into CMIN/HARV and proceed mining, your enemy has another dud in their base. Not as good as dropping it on the redfinery and scoring the promotion, but the enemy still lost one of their miners.
About the Virus, check out the csf file, two interesting comments there:
"Hint: Snipers have a longer range than the Virus"
"Hint: The Virus has a longer range than Snipers"
Yuri also lacks a bridge destroyer unit, like seals or ivans. Shame there is no other technology that can do this.
Yuri does have a repair facility - Sub Pen :p But still, the only reasonable use for a repair bay would be de-droning his vehicles, and I'm not sure any Yuri's vehicle, short of the undroneable Slave Miner / MCV / maybe Lasher, can survive a trip from the battlefield to the repair bay anyway.
Oh, one more problem, Initiates in garrisons deal a shitload of damage:
uh brutes are lethal against robot tanks people although the anti miner spamming is lame, i just love the fact though a garrison initate does 152% more damage when garrison but a gi only does 20% more damage when garrison rofl ...
also the bridge destroyer ability, although not instant u just have to rely on the all potent boomer or force fire with lashers. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
And if I send 12 Conscripts (12x100=$1200) against your one SEAL ($1000) he's going to break our money balance too. The issue I may have presented wrongly, in that if I build enough rocketeers or phathomably seige choppers late game, and have the proper detection units, no Boomers could get by. Yuri needs one (and only one, really) naval AA for defense. The other two sides have it...
The miner thing has no easy fix, and lots of issues in general arise over the fact that damage is cell oriented, not unit specific, so a Black Eagle can do double the damage if he catches his prey while it's unloading. It's merely grapical anyway, with most miner units working fine without an unloading class, and some issues even arrising from them having one anyway, like the Soviet War Miner suddenly losing it's weapon when it unloads.
Totally agree on the Yuri occupy thing though, and at their rate of fire nothing can get past. Best defense in the unmodded game, period. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
personally, i think AI concentrated more on making Yuri cool than on making it balanced. i usually don't play skirmish games against Yuri cause it cost him $5000 to defend his base from a $15,000 assault. the Initiate garrison thing and the Virus range are also issues, but i think the worst thing is the fact that the only psychic unit that can be overloaded is the mastermind. i think most should be cause that way you can actually get past his defenses, rather than lose barrage after barrage to his psychic crap and then realize he now has recived $20,000 in free, powerful units that he will now use against you. don't like Yuri, but i i'll put up with YR for stuff like rockpatch and gattling logic. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject:
Yeah, U gotta luv Gattling logic. 7|-|3 |\/|0®3 17 $|-|007$ 7|-|3 ß3773® 17 937$, ƒ00!!!!! _________________ Destroy to create. All for the hunt to dominate!
the ai should be better against yuri ai and besides prism tanks siege choppers magnetrons make short work of his defences, the multiple slave miners is annoying though. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject:
I was kindas dissapointed in the unmodded Siege Chopper. It had a long deploy time, short cannon range, and it wasn't very powerfull. In groupes they're not bad. _________________ Destroy to create. All for the hunt to dominate!
About the Virus, check out the csf file, two interesting comments there:
"Hint: Snipers have a longer range than the Virus"
"Hint: The Virus has a longer range than Snipers"
I'm sure in 1v1 Virus gets killed by a sniper. Either the weapon is better but the range sucks, or the range is better but the weapon sucks (like some infantry can take two hits).
Never had Virus problems with a Deso though, his deploy range is greater than that of a Virus shot, just deploy, undeploy, and walk him out. The Virus should follow, and melt.
Oh yes heres another one, the Brute can take 3 Rad Cannon blasts But it's not really a problem though as the ground attack melts them.
I've never really had problems with Yuri, I value his concept (and acceptance in games of being honest, creative players) above all else than: NO FRANCE OMG NO YRUI!!?" NO AIR TAT INCLUDE V3!11 NO RUSH 40 MIN. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject:
my $.02:
Yuri is not unbalanced at all.
I believe he has a innovative side*waits for flaming*
It forces players to think beyond the 'rush'.
But some players cant think outside the 'rush' and bitch about Yuri being unbalanced because they sent in 20 Apocalypse Tanks at a base walled with Psy Towers and they lost them all.
That is why the Prism Tank, Siege Chopper, Aircraft Carrier, Robot Tank and Kirov exist.
Boomers, I think that is like getting to build a Hover Destroyer at the moment you build a shipyard. Just wrong...
Gattling Guns(tank and building) well... They suck honestly.
Only good against infantry and planes. Kirovs, well, let the gattling guns spin and spin and spin... Just for them to be silenced. Tanks, well its sorta pitiful.
-Ihateharriers:
There is plenty of ways to get by his defenses.
Prism Tanks, Aircraft Carriers, Dreadnaughts, Siege Choppers, Boris, Robot Tanks.
Garrisons- I agree with what everybody says about it being unbalanced. Whether the Hit-points of the tank is 800 or 7200, a 8 or 10 soldier initiate garrison will shred it apart.
Grizzly Tank/Lasher Tank: Simple, rename Grizzly Battle Tank to Grizzly Light Tank. Then make (x) tank Allied Medium or Battle Tank. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
my $.02:
Yuri is not unbalanced at all.
I believe he has a innovative side*waits for flaming*
It forces players to think beyond the 'rush'.
But some players cant think outside the 'rush' and bitch about Yuri being unbalanced because they sent in 20 Apocalypse Tanks at a base walled with Psy Towers and they lost them all.
That is why the Prism Tank, Siege Chopper, Aircraft Carrier, Robot Tank and Kirov exist.
Boomers, I think that is like getting to build a Hover Destroyer at the moment you build a shipyard. Just wrong...
Gattling Guns(tank and building) well... They suck honestly.
Only good against infantry and planes. Kirovs, well, let the gattling guns spin and spin and spin... Just for them to be silenced. Tanks, well its sorta pitiful.
-Ihateharriers:
There is plenty of ways to get by his defenses.
Prism Tanks, Aircraft Carriers, Dreadnaughts, Siege Choppers, Boris, Robot Tanks.
Garrisons- I agree with what everybody says about it being unbalanced. Whether the Hit-points of the tank is 800 or 7200, a 8 or 10 soldier initiate garrison will shred it apart.
Grizzly Tank/Lasher Tank: Simple, rename Grizzly Battle Tank to Grizzly Light Tank. Then make (x) tank Allied Medium or Battle Tank.
Fully agree with this guy here ^
I find that Flak is the best AA gun, splash damage pretty much kills a lot of units. Gattling is good too, but I prefer flak. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Yuri's Army and balance do not belong together unless is not is in between the two words. There's more to Yuri's overpowering presence than mind control and Boomers.
It's the way Yuri can use his army without being easily countered that's the issue. There is no cheap or easy counter for any Yuri player with any skills. Individually, Yuri's units are like the other factions'. Put them in the right groups and he's nearly unstoppable. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Those who say Yuri isn't unbalanced, I'd love to see you defend against a single ASAP Boomer on something like Face Down, where you have more than one possible Boomer entrance.
Even if that thing wasn't cloaked, getting a siege unit (actually, two - Magnetron is also a siege unit, and much more versatile albeit not as powerful as the other sides' ) at Radar level is very unfair to other sides, who only get their respective units at Tech Center level. So what if Boomer's cruise missiles are shorter-ranged and less explosive, they are nearly supersonic, you'll be lucky to shoot down both of them, especially with Allies, whose AA takes quite a recharge delay. If you do manage to take them both out with Allies, great, you just spent so much on the extra AA you have just been outtanked by Yuri. Heck, by now he could even bring his Miners into the fight if he wanted to.
Seriously, the Yuri balance question has been discussed to death in a lot of forums, and usually the non-modding oriented forums (such as the Den) end up with the answer that he indeed is overpowered. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject:
The Magnetron also has low strength, is unable to target infantry (the V3 may be terrible against them, but it can take out unwatched units) and has a noticeably shorter range than the V3.
At the very least as modders, we can always balance Yuri to our heart's content. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
the magnetron can instantly kill structures by dropping units on them and making standard miners useless by making them use there cmon or horv ... and as mentioned before the fall rate allows gatt units to pawn them prepare assault. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
By default, Rookie weapons are Range=4.5 (Init) and Range=5 (GI) and both Elite weapons are Range=6.
They use the same projectile, which does gain a range bonus from height (which, by the way, is also used by the Brute, so he gets that height bonus for no real rason as well).
But as I see it, there is nothing wrong with an Elite Initiate outranging rookie deployed GIs... QUICK_EDIT
No, but something is kinda wrong about a deployed elite GI not outranging an initiate, IMO. The GI deployment is meant to give thme a range and firepower edge over undeployed basic infantry adversaries... Especially considering the init does more damage than the deployed GI when both are elite. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject:
Exactly!
Rattuskid: Sorta weird how a guy can project psychic energy at the same distance a guy with a M-60 Heavy MG can shoot and hit the target with more lethality...
But as Clazzy said, that is why modders balance Yuri to their hearts content.
Personally my changes to balance Yuri would be as follows:
1: Slow-down Boomer Sub Missiles
2: Cut garrison damage in half
3: Lower range of initiate by 1 or .5
4: Lower strength of Master-mind slightly(15% or 20%)
Already used tip on how to counter boomers with destroyers:
Once you get your 2 Destroyers that you could get to defend your naval base, and their Ospreys go off to fight the single Boomer they built, close the range, and force fire the cannon next to the boomer, and that should do light damage to the sub.
Making the cannon a bit stronger (50%) might be neccessary tho... The Destroyer's 155mm is significantly weaker than the Rhinos 120mm with warhead applied. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Making the cannon a bit stronger (50%) might be neccessary tho... The Destroyer's 155mm is significantly weaker than the Rhinos 120mm with warhead applied.
The destroyer really isn't meant to engage other surface vessels. It's cannon is an infantry slayer though. In only a few shots, even the strongest SEAL is sleeping with the fishes. Add in the fact that destroyers rule against coastal defenses and it's role is clearly. It lacks the capability to sink other surace vessels in anything but a fair bit of time, but the early game vessels it encounters in Ra2 are:
Soviets-
-Sub it's designed to hunt
-Sea Scorpion that does zero damage to ships
Allies-
Other destroyers without the real power to sink it!
Yuri-
Subs it can counter (in theory)
Any new side with a gunboat type unit will mess up this balance, as the Allied surface vessel killer is clearly the Dolphin. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
the garrison damage for initiate should be rookie 40 elite 50 because ucpara damage is equivalent to elite conscript and elite gi in building does 40 damage.
mastermind strength is fine in my opinion, its delay between mind control should be greater though or make it slower to escape.
the elite weapon systems for naval vessels would benefit in my opinion from 50% faster fire rate but no burst increase. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject:
Well wouldn't you be humiliated to be the captain of a Destroyer and see your boat get sunk a by a enemy tank? With your boat inflicting near minimal damage?
I know about its anti-coastal defense value... That is about the only thing next to infantry it is proficient at. When I was foolish, and in that mission where the Destroyer was called the workhorse of the navy, I thought "Dang, it must be powerful!" How foolish I was...
Anyways...
The Boomer does the same damage as a Typhoon with its torpedoes until it is elite, and then it starts to get unbalanced, because some times it ends up killing the enemy target with 1 or 2 shots left to spare, and go on to the next target and fire another 4 torpedoes at that next one.
The Boomer still, I have found it 1 on 1 battles with Destroyers, almost always comes on top... How much strength does that sub have? _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
its 50% stronger then the drednaught or aircraft carrier and 100% stronger then destroyer or typhoon but boomer cost is $2000
also using destroyers to attack land targets is kinda silly it just makes u vunerable to mind control, long range weapons. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Well, it can be agreed that the naval forces need a fair bit of work in balancing and functionality.
Eva, the Sea Scorpion is useless against tanks as well, and a well placed tank can ruin the day of any ACC or Dreadnaught that ventures too close to shore. It's just one of the unrealisms of the game that is needed to make the RTS playable. How are barracks, which are meant only to feed and house infantry, capable of having a nigh infinite amound of men come out of them? Same thing. How come not even a laser based weapon can't shoot a dog while jumping? Same again...
Allied General wrote:
also using destroyers to attack land targets is kinda silly it just makes u vunerable to mind control, long range weapons.
Mind control weapons and tower defenses are both radar level devices. The Destroyer isn't. If you build a naval yard before a war factory on certain maps, and can sneak the destroyers to your enemy, they can take out a power plant, or worse, refinery, tilting the tech race in your favor all game. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
The Boomer does the same damage as a Typhoon with its torpedoes until it is elite, and then it starts to get unbalanced, because some times it ends up killing the enemy target with 1 or 2 shots left to spare, and go on to the next target and fire another 4 torpedoes at that next one.
Uh, no. Typhoon does 100 damage in one torpedo, Boomer does 120 in two torpedoes. When elite, their burst doubles (damage becomes 200 vs 240).
Btw, the Boomer torpedo warhead affects infantry four times more than the Typhoon.
And just for kicks: Sea Scorpion does damage ships, I used it in the RA2 campaign to sink those pesky Aegis and get ^^^ fast :p
Oh, another (unrelated) thing that I find amusing, there's a BlimpBombPE projectile, that by their naming definition should be on an Elite Kirov, but isn't. It has a prism tank style shrapnel attached, that can really kick the base, if you can get it to fragment... Was fun using it in that "Destroy Kremlin" mission, hehe.
Does anyone find it awkward that Slave has a bigger ThreatPosed value than the Slave Miner (which even has TP=0, so nothing attacks it unless in retaliation)? IMO, that is pretty stupid, since it has a good weapon. On the same note, all the Yuri tanks have TP=40, whereas other tanks vary it (Grizzly = 15, Rhino = 40, etc..), that definitely needs adjusting IMO. QUICK_EDIT
This may sound stupid, but does Threatposed do much anything? Does the AI actually consider the threat rating of units when defending or attacking (beyond the Threatposed=0 bit)? I thought this was something that was put into Tiberian Sun for their Threat rating node to work, but that was never implimented... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
big threat makes build more defences it seems as in closer to max limit they like over react i guess try using big numbers like 80 and restoring the threat rating values to co-efficients. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I would have to agree with part of your answer. The magnetron may be one of Yuri;s best units, but it is also one of the worst units aswell. It takes abit for it to climb altitude, then when it falls, it basically kills your unit in the process. Which kinda sucks. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I would have to agree with part of your answer. The magnetron may be one of Yuri;s best units, but it is also one of the worst units aswell. It takes abit for it to climb altitude, then when it falls, it basically kills your unit in the process. Which kinda sucks.
Heres my proposals on what Yuri's Revenge SHOULD be balanced like.
Without Magnetrons, Yuri forces would be more easier to tackle, and you can actually use your tanks without them being juggled or disabled.
Disabling means that one player constantly presses s and shoots it so that it raises from the ground just by 1% and keeps doing it so that the tank can't fire.. it's VERY annoying.
The Drone should have more armour to withstand gattling attacks, but not miner attacks. I.e. it would let the player use more tactics like Initiates.
Boris shouldn't have a warning sound when his MIGs come in the air. That's not very fair, the other sides (Tanya can blow up buildings without warning, and look at Yuri Prime, walks in and goes *Fwoom* mind controlled building) don't have a warning system like Boris'. Boris range should be equal to that of a virus for his main gun. His laser designator can stay the same range.
Either the drone should have better armour, or the Tesla Trooper should be somewhat immune to Gattling attacks (it's a metal suit, after all, it should be treated like one). The Tesla Troops should be immune to radiation too to tackle Desolators. (or Chaos gas if you want, but that's more of the drone's job).
The Magnetron should have range decreased? for Juggling. It should be primarily used for building siegement.
"Uber" Prism Tank of doom should have less damage done to vehicles and infantry, but keep the same damage against the buildings, like a siege weapon. Mirage does the anti infantry/vehicle work, not the Prism. No need for two.
BF speed swapped with Apocalypse tank. (come on).
Chaos Drone should take some more armour. Keep hit points the same.
Virus range should be less than Sniper, but keep elete version same.
Flak Trooper should be more suited to Yuri Disc combatting.
Boomer should either:
Tone down missle damage.
Decrease missle speed.
Make Boomer buildable after Factory/Radar, but have a Sub early on.
Make Boomer w/ Lab and have wider navy (not prefferred).
Make Boomers weaker. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I would suggest making the released tanks drop much faster (and make the tractor beam recharge somewhat slower as well) instead. It's very possible, and in my opinion makes more sense.
Just need to keep in mind that if stuff falls faster, the bystanding AA stuff has way less effect.
It's possible to differentiate the Magnetron's beam lengths, but there is a different approach, increasing the AV beam' minimum range. Having played CR, where the AV beam is minimumrange=4, range=9, I have to say that's a pretty cool idea. Also reduces its ability to kill ships, heh.
(CR also halvens the anti-structure beam's recharge time, which makes it a much better siege unit.)
Uh, both BF and Apoc were Speed=4 last time I checked. Apoc needs to accelerate to full speed thought, whereas the BF doesn't (BF acceleration causes AI issues).
Tanya has to get right next to a building to kill it, in the process she's very vulnerable to base defenses. Boris' gun is an excellent infantry killer already, and with sniper's range it could probably grind an Apoc to shreds before it came close.
Terror Drones are already designed as the deso killers, I see no need to give that power to tesla troopers as well... Seeing as they both are vulnerable to the same stuff. QUICK_EDIT
I'd have to say that one Yuri unit is EXTREMELY unbalanced: Initiate.
The GIs have to deploy for their heavy stuff.
The Tesla Troopers are just slow.
Initiates are sickenly powerful with normal movement speed. _________________ It's not the sword that makes the man...
It's the man that makes the sword.
- Unknown QUICK_EDIT
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Yuri forces - unbalanced or not?
Yeah, U gotta luv Gattling logic. 7|-|3 |\/|0®3 17 $|-|007$ 7|-|3 ß3773® 17 937$, ƒ00!!!!!
