Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:58 am Post subject:
And after the mod SDK, comming soon a Particle Editor...
Subject description: APOC speaks again.... to kill the FPS scum from the face of Earth!
After several comments at CNCDEN, APOC replied with the info below:
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"Command & Conquer 3 will continue to cater to modders, and I will continue driving towards releasing more tools like a particle editor down the road. I've seen a lot of what EAW offered in modding thru XML and have taken that feedback to the development team a long time ago, so rest assured, this Mod SDK is the 1st step.
My goal is to give this RTS community the best modding tools in the RTS scene and then attempt to make those FPS boys know who we are. You guys make some amazing mods and deserve more recognition by the PC community.
I'm personally exhausted of seeing FPS mods steal the show all the time when there are some incredible mods out there for Zero Hour for example. Don't get me wrong, all due respect to FPS modders, they deserve the attention they get for sure, I would just like to see some more open eyes on the RTS mod scene, there definitely is one, and quite frankly, Zero Hour is the most modded RTS game in my opinion
As for Renegade, unfortunately, thats a whole nother bag of marbles and modding tools. Certainly, I have no intention of dropping support, i'll do the best I possibly can with the resources I have, but with this 1st Mod SDK, the focus is on our RTS modding community. Renegade has a very properous modding community, and anyone is welcome to e-mail me requests that would help that modding scene out. Talk to Lion "
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Zero Hour, the most modded RTS? What do you people think? Is the guy blind or a visionary?
In a serious note, they are really working hard to catter modders for C&C 3. Once it gets released, the new game will attract some BfME 1,2 and ZH mods for the updated SAGE engine. The low support for particles from this SDK will be compensated with this Particle Editor, specially because particles will be the main engine upgrade for C&C 3.
By the way, did anyone managed to use this new W3D Viewer successfully? I can't open a single W3D file here, after downloading MFC71.DLL and DBGHELP.DLL from Dll-files.com. It simply stays with Untitled, without showing any kind of warning. I couldn't open the program before downloading that files. Last edited by Banshee on Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:08 am Post subject:
Well he's wrong in saying Renegade has a prosperous community. There are approximately three mods in actual production (RenAlert, Reborn and that Star Wars one).
FPS games have more attention devoted to them because the genre is more popular. This is a massive generalisation, but the average RTS gamer is probably more intelligent than the average FPS gamer. The games we play require us to think and use tactics, not pick up the most powerful weapon and kill the enemy. Granted, I play FPS games myself, but the majority of people who play FPS games probably don't play C&C games, Warcraft, Rome: Total War and others.
Whle he may be right that Gen/ZH has a large modding community (ModDB shows Gen and ZH combined to have 140 mods, with second place being RA2 with about 70), a better question is asking how many are active and stand a chance at completion. There are a lot of good ZH mods out there, but there are also a lot of good TS and RA2 mods. At the end of it, despite any good qualities Apoc has, he still caters to the community that will bring the most money in for EA, and that isn't us lot. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
hmm...more happy fanboy attitude...first words are "Command & Conquer 3"...I wonder if anyone has foreseen that... _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:
Re: And after the mod SDK, comming soon a Particle Editor...
Banshee wrote:
By the way, did anyone managed to use this new W3D Viewer successfully? I can't open a single W3D file here, after downloading MFC71.DLL and DBGHELP.DLL from Dll-files.com. It simply stays with Untitled, without showing any kind of warning. I couldn't open the program before downloading that files.
It worked fine for me, though I have only opened one file. (One of the beta USA buildings that got released) I was disappointed to find it had some of the same flaws, ie: you can't run it with Antialiasing on without massive lag, and there seems to be lag at high resolutions. I know one feature was removed, and that was the option to record animations as AVI files. Granted this feature never worked on the old one, it would have been nice if they tried to fix it. Anyways that's my first impression of it.
Triforce _________________ The Cake is a Lie!!!
The Cake is a Lie!!!
The Cake is a Lie!!! QUICK_EDIT
FPS games have more attention devoted to them because the genre is more popular. This is a massive generalisation, but the average RTS gamer is probably more intelligent than the average FPS gamer. The games we play require us to think and use tactics, not pick up the most powerful weapon and kill the enemy. Granted, I play FPS games myself, but the majority of people who play FPS games probably don't play C&C games, Warcraft, Rome: Total War and others.
Finally I hear someone saying that. I too love FPSs, but I'm starting to get bored of them. Just shoot everything that moves and let you brains sleep and nothing new to see in them, only crates, crates and oh, crates (Prey turns out to be a interesting game though, with it's wall walking and gravity madness). Well, for FPS lovers that wish to play something more intelligent, I guess FP-RPGs are the best choice (I was a RPG hater and I got to love Oblivion, just because it has shooter elements).
Are there such things as FPS-RTSs or FPS-TBS? The only FPS-RTS I heard of is Savage, but I also heard it's not really a cool game.
Anyway, back on topic.
Is this SDK season for EA or what?
Speaking of ZH mods. I saw some of them on Mod DB and I really liked them, but all of them are inactive (and for some time). Renegade mods, the only full TCs that I know are Reborn and RenAlert, but I really lost my interest for them, because I think they move really slow and I didn't like what happened before when there was that "war" between the both teams or whatever happened (I simply lost my interest for them, although some of their stuff is great and I like TS' universe).
Zero Hour the most modded RTS? That's rich. Good thing he didn't say that it's the most modded PC game.
From what I see in the "compliments" given to APOC, I think that he's someone not to trust. Anyway, most of his quotes I see on news pages are just lies to me. I don't really like that guy. But whatever. At least he dares speaking with the C&C modding community. QUICK_EDIT
Free Allegiance is a space sim shooter and RTS in one. Very good game, and decent community. Although, it has a learning curve to learn all the ships+technologies.
Also, Tremulous is kinda like Tribes and Alien vs. Preditor mixed into one. You can build Tribes-style bases in indoor maps, and the two sides are vastly different.
Both of these games are really the only other FPS+RTS combo games ive seen, and both are free to download. There were attempts in the commerical market for this genre (Savage and Allegiance were both once commercial games), but it never took off, even if the two games were both relitively popular, and are still popular as freeware games go. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject:
And I disagree. He is not a moron. He is just doing a propaganda of the C&C community mods. Maybe, he hasn't deeply researched what he said. Looking at the moddb, what he said about Generals/Zero Hour makes sense, although many mods do not register over there:
The second place RTS in moddb.com is Red Alert 2 with 65 mods. Warcraft III comes after with 36 mods. That happens because mod maps aren't really counted as mods and Warcraft has inumerous of them. QUICK_EDIT
Actualy, C&C Renegade is on 17th place with 39 mods, not counting Standalone Games and Zero Hour.
As said, here is your reason:
PaRaDoX=Reborn= wrote:
Renegade has no moders becuse we have shit tools and no instructions and no source code.
(Hi Paradox!!! )
The Lack of Source Code is really a pain. The Engine is outdated, running on DirectX8, while we are about to enter the DX10 era in half an year.
The LevelEdit Crashes every now and then. So does the W3D Viewer and the new W3D View does not support most Renegade Models.
The gMax tools are buggy, crash, corrupt hours of work.
Saberhawk's enhancements to the bfmeII tools are great but there is no way one can convert he/her's work to 3DS if he worked in gMax before. This is due to the fact that there is no proper W3D Importer and the only way one can convert gMax->3DS is by going thru 1 million formats and in the end loosing pieces of the mesh and all of the materials.
I must note that this is an issue in the current RTS mod tools as well.
For an example, there is no way i can convert a shitload of models from gMax to 3ds to move my mod to either BFMEII or to the upcoming C&C3, rendering 3 years of work useless. Starting from scratch is not much of an option.
Sure, i can use the current W3D Importer, but it doesn't support everything...
OT: Paradox, what error message do you recieve when you try to register? _________________ -Mad Ivan
[Dark Heart Studios] [CnC World] QUICK_EDIT
Maxed out errors when i tryed.. but about your w3d viewer Banshee make sure its not the BFMEII one. It has alot of the useful W3D chunks taken out and replaced so just use this one http://www.renegade-help.com/upload/users/paradox/W3dView.rar QUICK_EDIT
"Saberhawk's enhancements to the bfmeII tools are great but there is no way one can convert he/her's work to 3DS if he worked in gMax before. This is due to the fact that there is no proper W3D Importer and the only way one can convert gMax->3DS is by going thru 1 million formats and in the end loosing pieces of the mesh and all of the materials."
They are actualy the ones used to make Renegade, so they are Renegades tools moded for BFME
And you can get a w3d importer for max that imports the textures (dont know about the materals)
Silent_Kane is makeing a WLT exporter so useing LightScape you can make Lightmaped renegade maps with ease.
But the sad thing about source code is all the paperwork... and they tell you what you can and cant do with it... and with EA it would let us see it and not compile anything for it (ok time to register again XD) QUICK_EDIT
Yea, yours works fine and also load BfME models fine. Although, this is version 5.3 (lower than 6.0 that comes in the new SDK). What was done with it? QUICK_EDIT
The new one is DirectX9.0c and it has alot of the w3d chunks from renegade removed so emmiters and lightmaped files like levels are removed so the renegade people cant use it. See EA is ANTI-Renegade. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:
APOC has replied to a similar news in CNCDEN and I believe what he said should reply the last reply from Paradox=Reborn=
APOC wrote:
If I may comment here, releasing this Mod SDK has been an 8 month process and unfortunately, nobody took the fortitude and energy to make it happen until I came on board as Community Manager, so sure, i'll apologize for that delay when I was not around. So yes, you can live in the past, or you can look to the future and what this really means for modders...it means a lot more attention paid your way because i've pressed hard to give you guys more spotlight and importance to our development team and they highly respect your works of art.
I did not think that our tools would be compatible with Renegade, it was my understanding for the longest time that it was a completely different beast. Our developer who made the SDK with me, was not even aware, and to be frank, he wasn't even with our company when we made Renegade...and neither was I...lol.
So, i'm actually looking into seeing if we can modify the SDK so you have an official program from us that also works with Renegade. No timeline for that, but thankfully, you have a nice workaround, largely impart to the release of this SDK in the first place.
That 8 month process I spoke to...development time of the SDK was the least involving part, in fact it was the shortest part of the process. The longest part took getting the dev time necessary in the midst of our game developments, and more so the many...MANY legal approvals necessary to release these tools. Its a laundry list, you'd be surprised Thank you Autodesk.
he is out to take Renegade Down. There is no other way to put it. We have asked him for support and ignored us.
And now much to everyones suprise Renegade is a Great game back in 2002.. we would like to do game engine enhancements like Normal maping but oh yeah EA would not help us one bit even though BFMEII game engine HAS the shaders and would be not very hard to implament. APOC sliped, the w3d viewer came with a compiled shader for w3d we can stick in Renegade once our DirectX coder gets back home from his road trip
But i would like to thank LabZ and Wicht for responding to the emails sent to them, they are real C&C fans. _________________ Msn indacator
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And after the mod SDK, comming soon a Particle Editor...
I smell spam, and possibly a bot.
)
Thank you Autodesk. 
