Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:58 am Post subject:
Weapon Projectiles
Is there any way to lessen the arcing capability of Cannon projectiles?
This is for a mod Im making which has significantly increased weapon ranges and the Cannon projectile is at extraordinarily high heights at further ranges.
I would disable Arcing=true but the projectile just starts falling immediately after its fired and never hits the target even on level ground beyond 60% of its defined range.
So is there a way to make the cannon projectile have the appearance of a virtually straightfire weapon? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:04 am Post subject:
forgot how to. i got it once though. i'll check it for ya.
EDIT: arcing=no should work...
perhaps it doesnt work because you said false. (that would be strange though, as default is no) _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
true - Projectile will arc in order to reach the target. (Affected by gravity.)
false - Projectile will not arc. (Still affected by gravity.)
no - Straight fire zero gravity weapon.
or, maybe just removing the tag completely will make it straight fire. This tag needs proper testing, and should have it's entry on modenc updated. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Why don't you guys just look at the Cyborg Commando's Proton weapon from TS? It flys perfectly straight.
SomeGuy[YR:SF] wrote:
Icy - Arcing is a Boolean flag it only has True or False (or the other form of yes or no)
ModEnc and the comments both state that the default for Arcing is 'no'. Yet they use 'true' whenever they want an arcing shot. Go figure. _________________ Last edited by IcySon55 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:
I don't remember tank shells going in ridiculous arcs in TS- but then again, I have not played TS in a long while. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Tank shells unless you increased the range significantly dont show all that much.
Also in Boolean logic (at least in C++) normally Yes/No is parsed in much the same response as True/False as they are both represented in binary as 1 or 0. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject:
TS Arty had Lobber=yes.
And I am sure the arches in TS are not quite as pronounced as in RA2. However, in both games, watching solid-shot cannonballs shooting thru the air in straight trajectories would look weird.
Lowering the gravity constant, in [AudioVisual] would fix shell falling too soon, but it would also cause most of the game, especially debris, the already corny "fall into water and explode when bridge is destroyed" effect, the speed at which planes crash, and so on, to be look very weird. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Ya see Ive been trying it around and it doesnt seem to affect falling stuff like Debris or falling guys from a bridge thats now not there BUT it does affect the speed of Ballistic shots like Cannon and Ballistic.
At 1 the projectile moves relatively slowly since it appears to be a speed bias and at Gravity=20 cannon shells fly really fast but no real notice in arc.
Either setting causes Cannon to be exactly as was before with Arcing=False.
Also Ive tried the "what about CyCommando" by Icy and while at ROT=1 like ProtonBlast, it does fly straighter it has a main issue.
Mainly that of if the target evades the shell.
In many instances it behaves mostly as intended BUT if it is going laterally from the shots it might miss and the shell will fly off far away and try to double-back on it causing a nasty Missle curve even with Ranged=yes.
I dont have any ideas where to proceed from now. QUICK_EDIT
Usualy, if the CyCommando misses, the proton ball hits the ground. Did you make the projectile "Proximity=yes"? If not, then the ground might not destroy the projectile causing wierd problems.
ROT = Rate Of Turn [non zero implies homing] (def=0)
SubjectToCliffs = Can this bullet be stopped by upward cliffs? No effect on homing projectiles. (def=no)
SubjectToElevation = Can this bullet get a range bonus from height? No effect on homing projectiles. (def=no)
SubjectToWalls = Can this bullet be stopped by walls? (def=no)
Try adding SubjectToCliffs=yes, see if there is any difference. The reason for ROT=1 is so that the weapon becomes a homing weapon (stopping it from falling). You might want to make the weapon slow aswell. The CyCanon is Speed=70 _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Well this is what I used thus far (commentary included on stuff I tried earlier)
Code:
; straight high-speed ballistic shot
[Cannon]
Image=120MM
;Arcing=true ;side effect of turning his off is cannon weapon also "cant hit shit Cap'n!"
ROT=1 ;signed integer value!
Acceleration=3 ;ROFLMAO! At ZERO the shot STOPS and hangs there.
Proximity=yes
Ranged=yes
SubjectToCliffs=yes
SubjectToElevation=yes
SubjectToWalls=yes
;Inaccurate=yes ;dont work. Inaccurate causes the "cant hit shit Cap'n!" syndrome.
Will this help? Last edited by Team SomeGuy on Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:30 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
A direct copy of the CyCanon (and it's projectile & warhead) should work exactly the same in RA2 as it does in TS. Just try copying all three parts. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
even with a Copied verbatim (looks wierd with a BLACK orb shooting) it still doubles back (or attempts to) when it misses sometimes on lateral shots. QUICK_EDIT
Ya see the acceleration tag is where the problem is.
The lower it is the more chance the projectile has of trying to veer back when it misses via lateral evasion however at 10 or higher the effect diminishes and at 50 is almost not possible despite no apparent increase in speed.
Now the Cannon projectile behaves 99% as intended. (straight-fire, inaccurate vs moving targets, no missle veering)
However if my theory is correct then the possibility of it behaving with the veer is still there albeit incredibly reduced.
BTW this forum really needs a Strikethrough code QUICK_EDIT
Once I prepare a hard form that has presentable capabilities I will.
I dont trust online Text stuff on my wireless network. Too many losses of good ideas due to thunderstorms or the netcard switching off and stuff like that.
Dont worry Ill share it before the next 3 days is up.
Perhaps I should make a tut out of this thread and post it in the Tut Folder as well?
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject:
Is it just me, or does this not work when dealing with elevation?
I order a M48 Patton with the projectile, except modified to my liking:
; straight high-speed ballistic shot
[Cannon]
Image=GUNSHELL
ROT=1 ;signed integer value!
Acceleration=50
Proximity=yes
Ranged=yes
SubjectToCliffs=yes
SubjectToElevation=yes
SubjectToWalls=yes
Degenerates=yes
Shadow=no
It cannot be shot down elevated terrain, and stops at the edge of elevated terrain when fired. BTW: Degenerates=yes is and Shadow are not the causes-
Degenerates simply makes the damage get lower the longer the firing range.
However, I am very impressed with the effect itself. When a tanks turret swings toward a target, it sometimes fires too early, and has a complete miss, which is a great effect.
ShermanNewProjle.PNG
Description:
This Sherman is being ordered to fire at a target at a higher elevation. The shell stops at the end of the last terrace.
Filesize:
108.21 KB
Viewed:
9069 Time(s)
Patton2NewProjle.PNG
Description:
This unit is being order to fire at the target indicated by the cursor, however it fired too early, and missed
Filesize:
43.15 KB
Viewed:
9069 Time(s)
PattonNewProjle.PNG
Description:
This unit is being ordered to fire at a target on a different elevation
Filesize:
50.23 KB
Viewed:
9069 Time(s)
_________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Degenerates has a nasty habit of ztyping with Projectiles.
Secondly thats how a straight shot is supposed to be. Blocked by certain obstacles like steep inclines.
Straight-shot weapons would be most effective only vs flat ground targets.
Degenerates has done nothing to my tank shells, except make range a slight factor into how much damage it does on a target.
Yes, but you are not taking into consideration the effect this has on gameplay. Tanks mindlessly shoot at targets they cannot hit, with the shell exploding right in front of them, doing splash damage to nearby tanks.
Also, StraightShot2.jpg shows a misleading example. Put a tank 1 cell further away from the edge of the elevation you use, and order another tank to fire at it. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject:
Degenerates=yes does not have that effect, it is the elevation- I am 100% sure of that.
The round explodes too early when ordered to fire at a target past 1 cell into a new elevation(going up)
The round explodes on the firer when ordered to fire at something lower- a hassle for splash damage weapons and their users- it also causes the AI to act very dumb. This nullifies the high-ground tactical bonus.
EDIT- Even worse, if a round misses(due to the swivel effect(see my post with images), and it does not hit the ground, it will fly off the map, and go in weird loops. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
It slams into the dirt farther than 1 cell from the edge. Also slams into the terrain when it is "behind" something if you will like on the slope of a hill.
Also "negating the high ground bonus", have you heard of angle of elevation? Its where on a cannon system the barrel cannot aim in certain directions because the target is too far above (cant shoot up cliffs), too far below (slamming into cliff/hill when shooting in short directions), using direct fire rather than artillery-style (arcings ability to shoot up cliffs, while this cannot).
Thats actually believe it or not more accurate of real combat than all get out for tank weapons.
Seeing as how the world got rid of the "tank as mobile arty" concept REALLY early in World War 2.
Therefore the original concept is working as intended.
UPDATE NOTE: Degenerates=yes happens to not really do anything to it. Behaves the same way on either model. If your wanting the weapon to primarily deal the splash damage (is that your idea of stealing this from me for?) then merely add Inaccurate=yes and change the stray value to something really small.
However for functionality purposes this is what it looks like on FLAT terrain with Degenerates=no on the projectile.
StraightShotNoDegenerate.JPG
Description:
Straight shot firing without degenerating, acts as before.
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject:
"UPDATE NOTE: Degenerates=yes happens to not really do anything to it. Behaves the same way on either model. If your wanting the weapon to primarily deal the splash damage (is that your idea of stealing this from me for?) then merely add Inaccurate=yes and change the stray value to something really small. "
Yes, sure, I would love to steal your idea
Splash Damage is controlled by warheads, and FlakScatter is the best way to emulate inaccuracy.
BTW- Tanks cannot shoot up cliffs in RA2
You are completely ignoring my point, and the issue I brought up- this-
There is a line between gameplay and realism. You ignore my points, and you post my pictures of tanks shooting at a flat terrain target. Whoopdee do. The concern is sloped terrain, and the impact this has on AI and units that have splash damage and work in groups.
I will specifically test for the shell leaving the map, following your projectile exactly.
EDIT- The problem may of been Shadow=no _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Then what are you getting at? I really am getting lost in where you're headed.
Are you cheesed off that it slams into certain elevated areas (or lower if that may be) or unable to directly shoot UP cliffs yet can somewhat shoot DOWN them?
Seriously you're losing me here on that.
So Ill reiterate. What are you getting at? QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject:
I am getting at the fact that units will attack targets that they cannot hurt- and units with missiles and bullet weapons get a huge advantage from this.
An AI tank will try to attack a target on higher ground(or lower ground), the tank will not hit its target. It will sit there, shooting, not readjusting, waiting for a unit with a missile or machine gun to slaughter it.
I am not angry at the fact it cannot shoot up cliffs, FFS. I already stated that tanks NEVER could shoot up cliffs, only at the very edge.
When I said Shadow=no, I was talking about the two additional flags I appended to your projectile code _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
I thought Shadow= was just a draw flag like IsLaser=.
Well that problem with the AI is partially WWs fault for not considering (even EA forgot in Generals) making a firing capability that AI would recalculate their attack if it was not registering hits after x time and then all it would have to do is move and try a different angle.
In this regard thats just the games AI having issues with using something that isnt insta-hit, tracking, or never miss.
But also what if the flipside happened and the projectile capabilities (or at least SOME of them) were applied as well like turning InvisibleLow (most bullet weapons) into an actual bullet effect that must hit rather than wait x msecs (milliseconds) for the PIFFPIFF effect to take hold.
Or the alternative is to take off some of the restrictions on it like SubjectToCliffs=yes QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject:
Well, I tried something with non-straight fire cannon shots, to fix the inherent problems with it by default
Adding Proximity=yes and Ranged=yes had some interesting effects on the arced ballistic shot, including the tendency to miss rapidly moving targets. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
see, tutorial existed already _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
that's all that there's to it, you re-invented the wheel, because you didn't bother to look through the tutorials _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
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Weapon Projectiles
