Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject:
Red Alert units IRL
After some misconceptions by the geniuses up in Westwood Studios(er, laziness.), which spread down to the community, many people have no clue just what the hell the RA units are in reality. Its sad, tbh, because, with a little work(and ignoring much of Westwood's 'work'), You can find out what these things are.
Euro Alliance:
-Infantry-
* See Below *
-Army-
Light Tank - M48 Patton (THANKS EVA.)
Medium Tank - M1 Abrams
APC - M113 APC
Ranger - Jeep
Artillery - M110
Radar Jammer - Good ol' Westwood Lazyness.
(Allied) Convoy Truck - Deuce and a half
Mobile Gap Generator - Built off of a Deuce and a half most likely
-Air Force-
Longbow - Apache Ah-64 D
G.P.S. Sattelite - Soviet R-7 Semyorka (Also the RA2 Soviet nuke, and was really used to launch SPUTNIK)
A.A. Gun - Unspecified Zsu A.A. Turret (Ironic as Zsu's were the feared Soviet anti-aircraft systems deployed along the Iron Curtain)
~Navy~
Transport - Product of a serious acid trip
Gunboat - Present day U.S. Coast Guard boat
Destroyer - ??? (Please post if you know!)
Cruiser - U.S. "Iowa" class battleship
HeliCarrier - What the ztype?
Soviet Onion:
-Infantry-
*See Below*
-Red Army-
Heavy Tank - T-80 modified for 2 cannons
Mammoth Tank - N/A
V2 Launcher - FROG-7
M.A.D. Tank -N/A
Tesla Tank - A larger version of the MRJ.
-Red Air Force-
Hind - Mil Mi-24 Hind D
Yak - Yakolev Yak 3
MiG - Mikoyan Gueruvitch MiG 29 'Fulcrum' in the cutscene, however, the sprite depicts a MiG 27 'Flogger'
Chinook - Yakolev Yak 24K 'Horse'
Spy Plane - Mikoyan Gueruvitch MiG 1.44 testbed prototype
Badger - Tupolev Tu 16 'Badger'
SAM Site - NIKE Missiles(unspecified if Heracles or not. NIKE was a U.S. project to kill long-range bombers enroute to major cities. It was canned after the development of nuclear missiles rendered nuke-dropping bombers obsolete)
~Red~Navy~
Transport - Product of a serious acid trip
Submarine - Viktor class submarine
Missile Submarine - Akula or Typhoon class submarine
* It is worth noting that much weapon development in C&C: Red Alert is impossible without some form of World War II. The suggestions of the M16A1 and AK-47 as the standard Allied and Soviet weapons is utter absurdity in my opinion, as both are really derived off of German advances in weapons technology. Some people and mods(APB) use the AK and M16, others, like myself, point to WWII weapons such as the British Sten, Lee-Enfield, or the Soviet RPD, and Mosin Nagant as being more likely candidates. Judge for yourself.
Sorry to disappoint on that note, I liek'd Renegangsta's suggestion, though its really a canon nightmare to sort out, and really shows how much of an influence the second world war had on much of the technology here. With vehicles I have actual images, as far as weapons go, I have crappy cameos that are not even 100 pixels high and Westwood's 'reference manual'. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. Last edited by Clarkson on Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:11 am; edited 3 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:02 am Post subject:
Updated, Renegangsta, as par your suggestion. I can definately say the Tokarev TT-33 and the Colt M1911, along with the infamous Thompson(Not as sexy as the civilian one, but still just as powerful) were among the used weapons, though. Sniper Rifles and Pistols really stayed solid(especially Soviet ones.), however, are not really present in RA(Why, I don't know.) _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
Historically, it would make sense if the Light Tank was a Patton, but AFAIK, the sprites are just copies of TD Light Tank, which was a M2 Bradley with a 75mm Anti-Armor cannon.
Oh and I'm 99% sure I've seen the Destroyer (not with a ztyping rocket pod) real-life image somewhere, I might look into it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Historically, it would make sense if the Light Tank was a Patton, but AFAIK, the sprites are just copies of TD Light Tank, which was a M2 Bradley with a 75mm Anti-Armor cannon.
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:31 am Post subject:
Thanks, Stygs.
Though, a better quality version of the second pic would be very nice. I recall that vid is on the Soviet disc, too, which makes me wonder if it was a Soviet tank, though I can't see too clearly to discern what kind it is... *cringe* _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
It looks a bit like a "stingray" light tank (armed w/105mm low recoil L7 and armoured against 14.5mm HMGs from the front and 12.7mm from the sides), although I'm probably wrong.
And IIRC even if the med tanks were supposed to be M1s they look like ultra upgraded M60/48s due to the roundet front turret and i think the hull front (between the track guards) is curved too in the ingame movies, as well as the fact the med tank sprite being more rounded than the TD one. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. Last edited by Lt Albrecht on Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Who wants to know what Ra1 units "really" are? Reality, especially 20th century military, is really dull and in a world where invincibility and history alteration is easily possible, I don't think theres a need to ruin that with what you think is "correct". The Medium Tank wasnt an Abrams, it was a Medium Tank. It's a game not based on history but what history could have been, and anything is possible. QUICK_EDIT
Though, a better quality version of the second pic would be very nice. I recall that vid is on the Soviet disc, too, which makes me wonder if it was a Soviet tank, though I can't see too clearly to discern what kind it is... *cringe*
Both of the pics are from videos that are in the Soviet disc. The first one is from the mission you must capture the Chronosphere for the first time.
OmegaBolt wrote:
Who wants to know what Ra1 units "really" are? Reality, especially 20th century military, is really dull and in a world where invincibility and history alteration is easily possible, I don't think theres a need to ruin that with what you think is "correct". The Medium Tank wasnt an Abrams, it was a Medium Tank. It's a game not based on history but what history could have been, and anything is possible.
Medium tank is a real 20th century class of tanks _________________ QUICK_EDIT
yeah, mediums survived until someone realised you could give them a slightly bigger gun, more armour and a bigger engine and render heavies obsolete; turning them into MBTs _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject:
Landships were rather entertaining looking, though.
Now, back on topic. Bolt, Thats quite a stupid attitude. If WW thought like that we could just have lol tanks that make no ztyping sense. Like the U@W human tanks. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
you can have your Soviet onion im with the alloys
so do you know whay model klaxon was used (if at all) for the ra2 nuke missile launch. i reeeallly would like to know. _________________ With sadness in my heart and joy in my mind QUICK_EDIT
Landships were rather entertaining looking, though.
Btw, there's a short clip in youtube of the Red Alert Soviet naval Transports landing on a shore, in the middle of a battle. I've never seen it before, could it be somewhere in the Red Alert files?
If WW thought like that we could just have lol tanks that make no ztyping sense. Like the U@W human tanks.
You could have, that's the point... Ra1 isn't meant to be ultra real. It's not one of those shit US WW2 games. Ra1 is based on reality, but isn't reality itself so there is no need to even remotely use real tanks.
The Medium Tank in Ra1 isn't any real tank, it's just a WW made up tank which was based off another tank or class of tanks... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject:
Stay on ztyping topic. /r/ delete of above post.
@Bolt-Seriously, what the ztype? Almost all the tanks in C&C 1 are real tanks with the exception of, 3 maybe? Hell, even the Nod Buggy is real. Saying 'Westwood' made up the tanks in C&C and Red Alert is just plain retarded. And Red Alert is not, storyline wise, that realistic. Stalin in particular is a bizzare case, totally opposite of the real Stalin, policy wise. And a terrible voice. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:
Mei Ling wrote:
Stay on ztyping topic. /r/ delete of above post.
@Bolt-Seriously, what the ztype? Almost all the tanks in C&C 1 are real tanks with the exception of, 3 maybe? Hell, even the Nod Buggy is real. Saying 'Westwood' made up the tanks in C&C and Red Alert is just plain retarded. And Red Alert is not, storyline wise, that realistic. Stalin in particular is a bizzare case, totally opposite of the real Stalin, policy wise. And a terrible voice.
Lets not forget his personality.
And yes Omega, it is an Abrams. The attack on Moscow video shows an ABRAMS TANK bursting through a wall and crushing a car as Longbows fly toward St. Basil's. The defeat video on that same map shows burning Allied vehicles, with the cutscene ending with an Abrams Tank turret exploding toward you. The Soviet Campaign briefing where Stalin discusses the Chronosphere has a video in which 2 M48 Pattons, 1 Abrams Tank and some Longbows attack 2 Soviet Mammoths. The MiG strike video shows a MiG 29 destroying an Abrams Tank. The cameo points to it being an Abrams Tank. However, the ingame shows a ugly piece of shit that WW threw together in about a minute. The tiny, low quality SHP is the only thing contradicting it being an Abrams Tank. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
I think that omega is trying to make is that the universe of command and conquer does not have to be based entirely on this one. That fantasy's of an alternate universe do not hae to match the specifics of our own. As the games have progressed through the years (in the C&C series, and regardless to Generals) the games have departed from our real world increasingly as time went on. If you look at TD, The battles are almost the same as the then present day with equiptment, vehicles, etc with a slight sci-fi twist. Then in Red Alert, the sci-fi grew even greater with an even more obvious departure from reality (chrono tanks, telsa tanks, etc). Then you got tibsun with mechs, ra2 with mind control, and tw with aliens. The sci-fi in the game has gone from a slight plot twist to the essence of the game itself.
Another thing to look at it is that the graphics were so poor and units so hard to make out, that one could take any unit the way he wanted. A sort of fantasy about what a unit might be grew out of it that by naming it took the novelty out of it. THe "medium tank" could be anything the player wanted it to. Those concerned with playing a "realistic" game might call it the a1233ad437aasf63 abram, while others simply understood it as the "medium tank". As time went on and units got more specific in terms of animation, the step had to be made as to whether stick with reality or go out with original sci-fi. Its like reading a book, thinking of an image for it, and then seeing a movie with something totally different looking based on the book. A sort of novelty of imagination grows on applying one's own ideas to the game that gets ruined by reality. Some people might want to play a "realistic game based on real things" while others might want a sci-fi game. I think thats why later cnc games became a love/hate thing because one half wanted realism while the other want sci/fi. I hear alot of people bad mouth generals but it is closer to TD than any other CnC game period.
As for that long block of text... most of you probably won't read it, so are you gonna do the other games too? _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
@Bolt-Seriously, what the ztype? Almost all the tanks in C&C 1 are real tanks with the exception of, 3 maybe? Hell, even the Nod Buggy is real. Saying 'Westwood' made up the tanks in C&C and Red Alert is just plain retarded. And Red Alert is not, storyline wise, that realistic. Stalin in particular is a bizzare case, totally opposite of the real Stalin, policy wise. And a terrible voice.
Sorry for offtopicness, but...
At the beginning of Red Alert, Stalin says: I can has Europes naow? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Wtf? It's a M1 Abrams, you dolt. Everyone who has even only little of experience on RA knows that.
No, it's not an Abrams. It's a Medium Tank.
There is no Abrams in the RA universe.
I don't think Westwood cared what the bloody things were, the Mig is different in the FMVs compared to in the .shp (I think it's a 23 ingame and a 29 in the FMVs or something like that) as is the Medium Tank (turret shape ingame is completely wrong for an Abrams, and there's two different FMV versions as shown earlier in the thread).
They just picked random cool stuff that suited the roles they'd decided the faction's units should fill.
At the end of the day who gives a ztype. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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Red Alert units IRL
