With all due respect our resources are focused on C&C 3 support, upcoming Kane's Wrath, and even at some point...patches hopefully for the BFME franchise before anything else.
While I would love to patch RA2 and Yuri's, unfortunately, I would not count on it right now, and not sure when. I'll happily throw official support behind anyone who wants to make a community patch and if its good, I could get our dev team to look at it, and give it a stamp of approval essentially.
That'd be the best I can envision right now.
-EAApoc
This could be the real chance to get into C&C History. YR's been needing a patch for ages. Animations from RA2 were disabled, major imbalances like the Boomer exist, and a whole bunch of other things. The main supporters of a patch though are the drooling 12-14 year olds on strike-team.
Which means RA2/YR will _officially_ be geared toward tournament style play if these assholes have a hand in it. Do you want RA2 to be built around ToE or any of the tournament maps? Do you really want to see 12 year olds who can barely put together a ztyping sentence ruin Red Alert 2?
Goddamn, Save Yuri's Revenge. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. Last edited by Clarkson on Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
FINALLY? 8 years and here comes the second patch...wow. The Boomers were totally overpowered...immediately 'Missile' reload after strike and can solo 2 Typhoons without getting killed...plus it can't get grappled. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
lol pd, hopefully it won't. Having to make another one of your patches AGAIN just because of a disturbed exe will definately make current users really pissed off, and you too. If not don't even get 1.0012...ROFL.
Lucky I'm 15 and not on Strike-team XD _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Location: somewhere south of the north pole
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:
one word, rockPATCH!
Perhaps pd could get sourcecode? That would be great! If not, Mental Omega as patch, as it's greatly balanced, new gfx's, new gameplay, enhanced AI etc... This is the chance! Might the best patch win _________________ This is a signature QUICK_EDIT
Boomer-increase missile reload time by 1.5, decrease torpedo damage by .25 (2 torpedeos, so each attack will be 1.5 that of typhoon, boomer cost 2000, typhoon cost 1000, so boomer is now less cost effective, but missile attack is now in consideration)
battle Fortress-decrease open top range so that Gaurdian gi's no longer out range artillery units.
Dolphins-less effective against naval yard
Patriots Missile/ifv-does more splash damage to stop rockie rushes.
Kirov-faster (no one really uses them anyways)
v3 faster missile, or stronger missile, or straight firing missile, or usefull missile(no one uses these ever)
Tank destroyer-faster spped and turn rate. (no turret makes this useless against tanks!)
Maybe perhaps they can do over all the sides, make it more like generals. Like Germany for instance, tanks cost less, ggi cost less, air cost more etc etc _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
EA does very strange things...if it results the Psychic Dominator having the mind control and destruction range that of a Nuke or Weater Storm...man. Who knows? Just hope and pray they don't touch any exes... _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
This is bad. Really bad. I'd rather make the whole patch myself than let those strike-team morons have a say in it. Freaking hell, they want to fix up the terrorists and demo trucks, but they will quite happily keep the President IFV bug.
If there really is a community patch competition on, then count me in. YR will not go to the 12 year olds! _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Occasionally you'll see cheaters with trainers...man, they should really change the soylent of the President AND remove the CowShot. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
not for online play? if you don't play online than you should just mod it yourself, no one would know the difference...
And according to the APOC post, it's gonna be the community who makes this patch, and therefore the touching of the .exe would be up to us. This, if it happens, shall be like "expandmd03.mix" with it including a rulesmd.ini, and artmd.ini, and perhaps if we're lucky some new game modes. Anything beyond that probably won't get approved by EA.
Rather than a competition, I think cooperation would best suit this seeing as how this will affect everyone who plays the game, and maybe one person will see something that another person misses. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
*I'm gonna post my proposal of changes here; making a new topic would be dumb.
I'm trying to make a patch by myself; this is what I've done until now:
CHANGES
-Apoc speed changed to 5 (was 4)
-Apoc Rate Of Turn decreased to 4 (was 5)
-Apoc Range slightly increased to 6 (was 5.75)
-Apoc can now fire on move
The new apoc is awesome and far better. Now it’s very useful and better then rhino.
-Grizzly tank BuildTimeModifier removed (was 1.3)
-Grizzly tank armour slightly increased to 311 (was 300)
-Terrorists strength increased to 100 (was 75)
-Terrorists no longer kill each other
-Terrorists are mind control immune
-Terrorists cost now 300/terrorist (was 200)
-Terrorist speed slightly increased to 6.5 (was 6)
Terrorists are now much better. If you don’t watch out with those guys, you’ll find your army smoking
-GI has now less firepower due it was overpowered.
-Many, many changes to all of the flak cannon weapons; too much to say. The principle was to get less good flak weapons vs. rocketeers (flak just owned rocketeers).
(credit goes to piscinex for the codes)
-Demolition truck speed changed to 6 (was 5)
-Armour increased to 220 (was 150)
-Rad level dramatically increased to 450 by example of piscinex (was 100)
-cell spread increased to 9 (was
-Verses have changed so that the radiation does do less damage
-demolition trucks are now psychic immune
Demo trucks are very powerful now. If you hit your opponent right, you hit him very, very hard, b/c the actual blow makes a “one shot kill” for most light vehicles close enough, and does big time damage to medium and heavy armour vehicles. The drawback is that if it explodes near your units, you will have to carry the consequences…
-Tesla Tank ROF decreased to 60 (was 75)
-Now better to light, medium armoured vehicles and miners, but less good vs. heavier units
-Tesla Tanks auto-detects mirages
Tesla tank became a good counter for those sneaky mirages. It also has now the unique ability to get be an eco killer
-Rhino tank BuildTimeModifier removed (was 1.3)
-Lasher tank BuildTimeModifier removed (was 1.3)
-Lasher tank Armour slightly increased again to 267 (was 250)
-Battle Fortress speed slightly decreased to 3 (was 4)
-Battle Fortress now accelerates.
-Battle Fortress armour slightly decreased to 550 (was 600)
those changes made what the BF should be: a support unit only. It’s now too slow to do hit ‘n run anymore; it is still a good unit though. But now using only Battle Fortresses is suicide. It makes also deso bombing much much easier; b/c a flak track can easily outrun now the range of a BF with a seal inside.
-Prism tank damage done to drones slightly decreased, so it’s just not enough to do one shot kill.
-Prism tank damage done to light vehicles decreased to 75% (was 100%)
-Prism tank range decreased to 8.5 (was 10)
This makes that prism tanks are a bit less powerfull against lighter vehicles, but still powerfull enough.
-Yuri clone has now 7.8 range (was 7)
-Yuri clone now auto-detects mirages
-Yuri clone secondary weapon delay is now 50 ( was 150)
-Iron Curtain now has a load time of 6 minutes instead of 5
KNOWN BUGS
TO DO LIST
-Finding a way to balance the boomer. Propositions are to make the boomer have only one missile and decreasing the firepower of the torpedoes, but also reducing the cost of the boomer. Other proposition is (deep breath) adding a few new naval units. I know this is not something for a balance patch, but problem is it’s very difficult to balance out a single naval unit to 5 other naval units of soviets/allieds.
-Other things like balancing out soviet-allied naval, the whole yuri side, ... . QUICK_EDIT
well,something that the comunity will surely apreciate would be probably a patch like RP,NP,RP2... but with more things not to mention that those idiots come after 8 years and say:i think we can help ya...
Now really,i dont think,dont believe that EA will really make this but even if its made it wont be too good... QUICK_EDIT
and yet ini editing is what should be done to improve balance.
Btw, you got a point it is subjective, but only in very small details. In big lines, balance can be improved for everybody. QUICK_EDIT
Drop the fuckings balance things.
It's wont happened.
All sides are kickass ass to play, you can win with all.
Yuri vs allied = Both can win
Allied vs soviet = both can win
soviet vs yuri = both can win
and so on.
You are not skilled to play YR when you think it unbalaceed.
Get Great Britian and train sniper vs yuri set it next to slave miner and yeah 0 money to yuri. If the yuri player see it he send some gattling tank or one gattling tank to the place.
If yuri attack with lasher and mastermind and you are Allied then send some fuckings airplanes?
Is so balanced and well done so drop it. EA will not even like it!!.
You can't win then you can drop the GAME!!.
Is so many ways to win vs yuri, allied or even soviet. _________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
the only .ini I want is for the unused voxels to get an art.ini entry to make it easier to add them to mod maps. But, in a way I've kind have moved onto generals, so I no longer care that much. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
You are not skilled to play YR when you think it unbalaceed.
Shall we try that out online ? You vs me; we'll try out each time a different country.
Nobody claimed btw you can't win with other sides, but 3-4 sides dominate the game winning most of the time.
I have btw an attempt to "balance" out the boomer:
-boomer strength reduced to 750 (was 1200)
-normal/elite boomer sub torpedo damage reduced to 45 (was 60 in both cases)
-normal/elite boomer sub torpedo ROF slightly reduced to 110 (was 120)
-boomer cost is now 1250 (was 2000)
-amount of missiles is reduced to 1 (was 2)
-missile speed reduced to 15 (was 20)
-missile strength reduced to 35 (was 50)
-ROF (regenerate) of missiles increased to 400 (was 80! That was in order words almost without delay!)
-Verses of missile changed to 100%,90%,80%,100%,80%,80%,12%,12%,7%,80%,0%% (was 100%,90%,80%,100%,80%,80%,80%,80%,65%,80%,0%)
-Missiles now stay longer on the deck of the boomer, giving the other player more time to respond.
Yes, I know these changes make a complete different boomer, but that was really needed. This new boomer is massable. They stay a bit more powerfull against subs/destroyers (but are now more cost effective against those). The missiles are heavily weakened, but you gotta remember that boomers are now a massable unit, and that means many missiles. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:02 am Post subject:
Truefeel doesn't know when he's beaten by better arguments... And if he loses, he wants to fight you to prove his point Also, 1500th post! Wohoo, party QUICK_EDIT
how come yuri doesn't have countries its only a side it seems very unfair. _________________ Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
Click QUICK_EDIT
Oh how I hate to do this, as I do respect the effort Truefeel, but is this your only counter for the "imbalance" line? That you'll beat them in YR?
Get some more comebacks to defend your project.
I was replying to anderwin.
Quote:
Get some more comebacks to defend your project.
Then I need to write 3-4 pages. It cannot be telled in short why yuri is overpowered. I can show it better in practice, which saves me alot of time. Not by just beating him, but really using the overpowered elements of the game to point it out; that's in most cases undeniable prove. Of course I would win of him anyway, but that's just not an excuse :p. Of course it is not my only counter, but I don't have all day trying to get people change their mind.
trust me; on the DGNF I had discussions of 6+ pages and the member who did not agreed with me initially did on the end agreed. Gives me an idea btw: check this discussion: http://forums.cncden.com/showthread.php?t=2807
For all who don't believe yuri is overpowered, plz check that topic. Unfortunaly, there was an even better one, but seemly got deleted.
Truefeel doesn't know when he's beaten by better arguments... And if he loses, he wants to fight you to prove his point
Like I said above, it is better to show it practice. Here in these forums people can come with almost any theory or opinion, but if you show it ingame, you also have the practice behind you. It is not getting beaten; it is just a way to get it faster solved. People got the wrong idea when I "challenge" them. If you show your arguments ingame, you have also a better position in the discussion. QUICK_EDIT
I can't play online this week.
I got for much school and then friday and the weekend come then I busy with my girlfriend <3.
So I really busy.
Anyways, YURI are not OVERPOWER. YOU CANT PLAY!.
Yuris is mean to think diffrent. Why you think he got the boomer? With land and naval missile?
Naval: To kill naval units
Land: To kill ground and even buildings
Why is it thats way?
IS because yuri was smart and dont get 2 units land and naval unit he get them in one sub live with it. Or release a mod! _________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
My online SN is.... DaFool321, the map maker extrodinaire (I have been joined games and people have said and quote "Wow, it's DaFool, this is like I'm playing with a legend"). Modesty over.
The biggest reason why people hate yuri: 1)"I has a tank!" 2) "OOO NOOOO He be stealin' mah tank!" Basically, people don't like it when they loose a unit, and they like it even less when the opponent gets to keep your unit. Yuri being overpowered or not is probally subjective, and although he has some great units and stratagies that can stop most rushes; he misses some basic units like an AA boat and an AA infantry (although Yuri's AA units are pretty powerful now, the gat tank and the disk). Yuri's units are basically a composite of other faction's units. The disk is the spy/aegis cruiser/seige chopter for yuri.
If this was like YR in cnc3 or generals, I would propose a mind control proof upgrade for some troops, but it is not. If you want to see your changes in action, mod a map and get online feedback. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I can't play online this week.
I got for much school and then friday and the weekend come then I busy with my girlfriend <3.
So I really busy.
Anyways, YURI are not OVERPOWER. YOU CANT PLAY!.
Yuris is mean to think diffrent. Why you think he got the boomer? With land and naval missile?
Naval: To kill naval units
Land: To kill ground and even buildings
Why is it thats way?
IS because yuri was smart and dont get 2 units land and naval unit he get them in one sub live with it. Or release a mod!
the problem is not that he's different, not at all.
But I think you never have heard of the so called boomer rush. Lemme tell me how it goes: a good player will have within 3 minutes a boomer ready and probably at your base. tell me how you are gonna spend not more then 3000 credits (boomer+shipyard) to defend against it within 3 minutes to fend the boomer off. What are you gonna place. 3 flak cannons ? if you spread them out over your whole base a missile will get through. if you concentrate them on 1 single place, you can't defend your whole base. 6 flak tracks ? you don't know where the boomer will emerge (it's submerged); if you spread them out, the missiles will get through, concentrate them and you can only guess were he'll submerge his boomer. like that'll matter; you can never have 6 flak tracks at the time he has a boomer. Going naval ? I can just ignore your naval and continue missiling your base; the boomer has 1200 points; a sub does 100 damage with a ROF of 120. Plenty of time to bomb several buildings and to get the boomer away. Going both naval and AA: then you are spending more then me.
Lemme answer it already: you cannot have for 3000 credits defences under the 3 minutes. So you gotta spend more then the yuri player. Advantage for the yuri player. The small time you have will also result that a building of yours will get blown up. More advantage for the yuri player. You'll be most likely in economic problems, while the yuri player will probably not due better miners (slave miners are always close to ore; war/chrono miners are not) so he has the money to build a wf and to build a few tanks killing you.
Even EA realised this situation and inserted server codes so that yuri cannot be played on naval maps in QM.
Now your turn.
Quote:
The biggest reason why people hate yuri: 1)"I has a tank!" 2) "OOO NOOOO He be stealin' mah tank!" Basically, people don't like it when they loose a unit, and they like it even less when the opponent gets to keep your unit. Yuri being overpowered or not is probally subjective, and although he has some great units and stratagies that can stop most rushes; he misses some basic units like an AA boat and an AA infantry (although Yuri's AA units are pretty powerful now, the gat tank and the disk). Yuri's units are basically a composite of other faction's units. The disk is the spy/aegis cruiser/seige chopter for yuri.
Not even close. mind control is not the problem. auto-magging is (for the record if you don't know what that is: it using ctrl+shift with magnetrons so that magnetrons pick automatically tanks); you see, tanks which were lifted stop moving unless you order them again to do so. The result is that your tank force gets tinned out and that yuri's tank force can whipe it it then (or mindcontrol it).
In regular YR, yuri does not need an AA boat, due he wins all games on naval with a single boomer (explained above). The lack of AA infantry is not a big deal; infantry plays only a small role in RA2/YR and yuri has the best AA ground unit (next to the GGI BF), the gattling tank. It can, unlike the IFV/flak track, survive one black eagle shot, but most important it can fire on the move (ideal for dodging rocketeers while still killing them).
Spare yourself and me some time and read those topics at dgnf .
Around which time do you have time to play, dafool ?? QUICK_EDIT
I play when I feel like it;). It is usually at night from like 6-9 (us eastern). And go to a site other than ppmsite? Never!
Although that has kinda stopped because I am modding generals/kane's wrath is coming out (I kinda think kane's wrath is gonna make cnc3 alot better and funnier to play. idk, generals was boring but zero hour made it alot better, perhaps the same thing will happen here).
To counter the boomer rush, in theory you could just build you side's equivilant :/ . I personally think the boomer is off because he is equil to 2 subs and has the missile ability. But the only fix I would institiute for this is lowering the damage for the missile, and presto 2 subs beat 1 boomer. You must also take into consideration that after and industrial plant a sub is like 650? So you can get 3 on one for subs. In the end EVERYTHING IS ROUGHLY BALANCED. Maybe to to the mathematical perfection, but two casual people can still beat each other. Other people who play continuously so that they themselves may beat perfection, well maybe they psycologically need to win. That is why, you should vote democrat for president.
This is offtopic but, like my I has a bucket reference? _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Like I said before, a boomer rush occurs within 3 minutes. you cannot be teched up and have an industrial plant in that time. And if you try it anyway, you'll get out of money very fast.
And 2 subs can beat in theory a boomer, but a boomer has enough strength to just IGNORE the subs and continue missiling your base. If you have to build AA on top of that, you've spended more then I did.
It has nothing to do with psychology. An unsure yuri player will still be able to pull off a succesfull boomer rush, b/c it is so easy to do.
Can you get online at 11:00 your time at saturday, so I can show a boomer rush to you ? I'll record that game at the same time, so that everybody can see it. QUICK_EDIT
Thanx for provided links. Now i am absolutley sure - Yuri is overpowerd... but i whould like if you tried to balance game w/o adding or removeg units.
2others who not agree
STUF, all your arguments have been broken. if you not belive - go and have fun reading! _________________ Gangster is a Project Perfect Wuj (c)Aro QUICK_EDIT
You can even build flaktroppers? You can biuld the new GI? They got rocket enjoy to kill the rockets. When you see the rockets come why u do not move your flag track there?
I have play a lot of Yuri and I really like it, but IF they do something to the units the game will be unbalanced.
You can kill the Boomers, with naval or even WITH planes !! If you allied. Get your time to get some rockketers? _________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
And if you're Soviet? The boomers need to be 3000$ at least to make them better.
And yes, truefel has won. YR is way imballanced. The game desperatly needs a balance fix, but why not simply use the UMP as a base and use BoltPatch? QUICK_EDIT
You can even build flaktroppers? You can biuld the new GI? They got rocket enjoy to kill the rockets. When you see the rockets come why u do not move your flag track there?
I have play a lot of Yuri and I really like it, but IF they do something to the units the game will be unbalanced.
You can kill the Boomers, with naval or even WITH planes !! If you allied. Get your time to get some rockketers?
I was waiting for that. flak troopers do less damage then flak tracks. Yes, you can build more, but you gotta spread them out, even to a level I can just target your flak troopers and kill them.
And GGIs are even worse. You see, all AA units target the first missile, with flak weapons you can see it not so good due splash damage, but AA missiles all go to the first rocket. But the second rocket keeps moving and the GGIs will keep firing at the first missile until it is destroyed. cruisemissiles move kinda fast, so probably the second missile will hit a building before it gets destroyed. You also forgot that you gotta make them early. If I see you making that many GGIs, I will simply not make a boomer. Now you just wasted money, I'll make gatt tanks and a pair of virusses and simply put win the game with that.
Ok, you can kill boomers with planes. Do you know how many planes are needed ? do you ? 4 planes exactly. that's 4800 credits, 1800 credits more then I spended and yet you cannot target or see it while it's submerged, giving me the oppertunity to kill your AFCC with planes on it. You gonna build navy also ? that's atleast 3000 credits again, with the planes I've now 4800 credits advantage on you, as allieds that means ussually you are broken. that's means no money for tanks, which I as yuri player have, just needing to make 3 lashers to finish you off. Not that you'll get to build 4 planes anyway; that's impossible within 3 minutes.
If you builf rocketeers, then you wasted even more money, b/c rocketeers cannot do good damage against boomers, unless you have a big rocketeer cloud, and that'll be 10000+ credits on rocketeers.
How you toss or turn it, you can't win this, anderwin. What you have done is played yuri in skirmish, but playing against AIs who are really nothing (not even the brutal one) doesn't teach you anything.
Quote:
why not simply use the UMP as a base and use BoltPatch?
It alters the game too much, for example: the mirage to radar level and the harrier having 2 missiles. People should strive for a balance that only alters what is really needed, not more. Some changes make it even worse; for example the flak track: increased armour. great, now it's even more overpowered against rocketeers. Or the boomer, having less armour but having stronger and faster missiles. really absurd. Some changes I agree with though, but I fear this patch might do more harm then good. QUICK_EDIT
For the record I have been lobbing for some small changes, I do feel that a couple of tweaks could balance the game, but not total overhauls. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Anderwin whats your problem? Consider this "just another mod", but if it will become good - it could have a chance to become a 1.002. All you can do is join online playtests to help its development. that is all. _________________ Gangster is a Project Perfect Wuj (c)Aro QUICK_EDIT
Put the above in a map and tell me how it plays, the changes are simple, and IMO they work. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
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YR 1.002, SAVE YR!
