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And the DRM from Red Alert 3 has been revealed.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject:  And the DRM from Red Alert 3 has been revealed.
Subject description: 5 installs limit before you get bugging EA support
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Few months ago, I've posted a news criticizing Spore's DRM methods (Digital "Restrictions" Manager, ok... the R is for rights, but we users don't have many rights with that). The DRM they've announced was absurd.


Quote:
According to many sources, the game will have to contact EA servers every 10 days to validate it. If the game isn't validated, you can't play the whole game, including single player modes. If your serial number matches the ones used by warez downloads or a key generated by keygens and is used online, your copy is banned. Also, as Hexetic mentioned, the horrible factor on it is that EA may actually deactivate the servers that validate it after some years and your well paid cash will turn into waste, since you won't be able to play the game anymore.




But cool down, the DRM from Red Alert 3 is not that evil and not that different from the DRM Spore is using right now (which doesn't revalidate the game every 10 days). I'll let Chris Corry's words explain it:



Quote:
Hi guys --

I’ve been hearing your concerns about the DRM situation and wanted to get back to you with some information about our plans. In the case of Red Alert 3 (and all PC titles coming out of EA), we will use SecuROM – the same copy protection that the EALA RTS group has used on our last three titles. This time around, however, the copy protection will be configured to be more lenient than we've supported in the past.

I know this can be somewhat of a polarizing topic, and I thought it would be best to open the lines of communication with some facts:

- We will authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.

- We will never re-authenticate an installation online after the first launch. In other words, no reaching out to a central server post-install to see if you’re “allowed” to play.

- You will be able to install and play on up to five computers.

- This system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. Personally, I think this is a huge improvement over our previous copy protection requirements, which have always required a disk to play.

- Life happens. I know it’s unlikely, but for those unlucky few who install the game and have their machines nuked (virus, OS reinstall, major hardware upgrade, etc.) five times, EA Customer Service will be on hand to supply any additional authorizations that are warranted. This will be done on a case-by-case basis by contacting customer support.

-You can, of course, play offline without impediment or penalty.

Red Alert 3 is shaping up to be a world-class RTS game that will give you many hours of enjoyment. I think it would be a shame if people decided to not play a great game simply because it came with DRM, but I understand that this is a very personal decision for many of you and I respect that. As you might imagine, I’m a lot less respectful of those people who take the position that they will illegally download a game simply because it has DRM.

Either way, we’ re very proud of the hard work our team has put into this game and we hope you will all enjoy it when it launches.





So far, it looks much better than Spore, but I'd say that it looks better for americans, english native speakers or those who doesn't have problems with the english language, since people who have problems on writting in english or speaking english will have a hard time to get their 6th and so on installation working. Relying on EA's support to rescue your copy is better than nothing, but not very attractive either. For those who live outside the US, your best option is to use skype to contact EA's support line, although they will probably be tempted to crack the game, rather than contacting the bureaucratic support and paying the price of the game to Skype.



The only question that I have is.... Is there any chance that this validation server will get offline, preventing you to play new installations of the game?

APOC seems to have answered that:


Quote:
Well Alex06 and everyone, I hope 5 years from now we're still supporting Red Alert 3, especially with our plans surrounding the development of a Live Team. I know its in our long term strategies to do so. So in that respect, there is no definitive timeline.

As far as we're concerned, the support is always there, its absolutely always there from the Customer Support side.

Aside from sunsetting a multiplayer server (which is extremely rare and still hasn't happened for any C&C game to date and no plans to), I don't think we'd ever intend to pull a plug on letting you install or play the game. That's crazy talk.

-APOC




Five years is really not enough for C&C games. We still play Tiberian Sun here. But don't worry. I won't be surprised if crackers get through this specific limitation.


Also, the post at EA forums had some initial confusion about uninstalling the game online could return the entitlement to the user. According to Chris Corry, it doesn't:


Quote:
Quick update. As many conversations as I’ve had about this, it turns out I got an important detail wrong so I need to clarify something important.

An uninstall does not return the entitlement to the user. I’ll be updating my original post to reflect this.

Only five unique machines can be licensed with the same installation code. So you will be limited to a total of five machine activations.

However, we will ensure that nobody gets left in the lurch. Our customer service organization is committed to granting additional authorizations on a case- by-case basis for those folks who have good reason to need additional installs.

I am really sorry about the confusion, guys. I asked several people about this and thought I had it down, but obviously didn't. Totally my bad.



And this may complete his words:


Quote:
You can uninstall/reinstall on the same machine multiple times (no OS change, no hardware change) without risking anything. And in fact simply reinstalling your operating system would not generally require you to use an additional license either. But if you reinstalled the OS and made a variety of other hardware changes all at the same time, that would appear to the SecuROM system like a new machine and you would need to use a new license at that point.

And again, if you do use up all five licenses for legitimate reasons, I want to stress that EA customer support will work with you to make things right.



Another thing that may worry users is how SecuROM's system may detect 'new machines'. C&C games have been using SecuROM for ages and, sometimes Red Alert 2 blowed all its units due to modding changes (without having any big system changes). I wonder if we can really trust this SecureROM to be working in the way they say it does.





Anyway, you need to get online to play the game for the first time, which might displease some users. I'm not happy with this system, but I am not boycotting this game due to DRMs, as I threathened in the Spore DRM news.

Last edited by Banshee on Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Clazzy
Karma Police


Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Location: Algae Colony On Mars

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I've had to put up with this through Bioshock, it was a terrible DRM implementation that I never want to go through again. I don't see why they deserve my money when they clearly think I don't deserve to OWN the game.

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Team SomeGuy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DRM is fail, that is all.

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Deformat
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Games should be free,and producers receive donations for the games they create,as only the people can show off how good the game is.

Its just an wish,but,meh,regarding SecureROM...well,never got problems with it(At an moment,RA2 didn't had music,when YR had...

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

secret, that would kill the industry.

Not a single person this forum would donate a penny, and I could safely ASSuME that this would apply community-wide.

Why donate when I got a free game? Perfect logic.


Anyways, I love the idea of this system. Not requiring the DVD means I do not need to drag it around with me everywhere, my roommate can install it, and thus we could play LAN.

If you hit the 5 install limit, it's either extraordinary circumstances or you purposely hitting it so you can bitch and moan.

Spare the "what ifs".

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Deformat
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just said,that's the way it should be.

Or pay if people find the game to be attractive.

Its just an menthality,which thinks that what we are doing here is work and creativity.

I'm not thinking at the dang industry,its just an idea...

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Team SomeGuy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And a bad idea at that.

No profit = no games because if you aren't making money, why are you doing it?

Last I checked there have been ZERO non-profit gaming companies out there since 1977. Well zero non-profits that have survived anyways.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uhh I reformat every year or so+, so thats some bullshit.

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Holy_Master
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how i can play the game when i dont have internet - -"

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Wess
TS Mapping GOD


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Belgium, FL

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the only thing this security crap duse is piss of those that buy games!
pirates have less probs getting games running then those that buy them.

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Kurorahk
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sadly yes that is true, but the only problem is, is that current mentality says, there is no way somebody is going to pay for a game. Yeah if the game was good enough (and that would mean actually really good) and it was released for free, but they had a few spots on the page you download it from and the main page some people would donate. There is a band that is doing this actually, they are staying afloat fairly well for just living off of donations.

Anyways I am not to happy about the DRM bit but hey at least it is better than Spores DRM and we don't have to go hunt down a No-CD crack anymore for those who don't like lugging around the disks. Though it still could be a lot better.

-Kurorahk-

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DaFool
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if they close the activation servers down, the least they could would be to release a patch that overrides thi SecuRom.

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Daz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If there was a revoke tool like Bioshock I'd be alright with this set up, but I'm not buying it if I only have 5 lifetime installs before I have to contact EA.

Shame really, I was initially not interested in RA3 and was starting to come around to it but I'll be giving it a miss now. They've hit something good with allowing no-cd play but then ruined it with install limits.

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Anderwin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Another thing that may worry users is how SecureROM's system may detect 'new machines'. C&C games have been using SecureROM for ages and, sometimes Red Alert 2 blowed all its units due to modding changes (without having any big system changes). I wonder if we can really trust this SecureROM to be working in the way they say it does.


Was it secureROM on RA 2 to =P?. Thats why all units blow up? strange.

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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wess wrote:
the only thing this security crap duse is piss of those that buy games!
pirates have less probs getting games running then those that buy them.

This man speaks the truth... Even though I don't have had any problems with this kind of shit (yet), I still don't like it; it will be cracked somehow, it will only take the cracker some few hours or days more...

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ORCACommander
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Limiting the number of installations on machines imo is pure horseshit and should be banned in law. otherwise the rest of the drm sounds reasonable. Only question what about those poor saps who do not have ready access to the internet? How are they going to be able to validate and play the game?

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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The same way you play Steam games: not Confused Unless they find someone to so they can validate their game there...

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Lt Albrecht
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I plan not to buy RA3 and to piss off EA I will not only not buy it but i will wast etheir bandwith by playing and purpsefully lagging games. Assholes, they deserve every wasted penny for what they've done to C&C.

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Mighty BOB!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OmegaBolt wrote:
Uhh I reformat every year or so+, so thats some bullshit.


Ahem:

Quote:
You can uninstall/reinstall on the same machine multiple times (no OS change, no hardware change) without risking anything. And in fact simply reinstalling your operating system would not generally require you to use an additional license either. But if you reinstalled the OS and made a variety of other hardware changes all at the same time, that would appear to the SecuROM system like a new machine and you would need to use a new license at that point.

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DaFool
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Install it on a portable hard drive, use it on every computer in the world without requiring an install.

muhahahahahhahaha.

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lt A1br3cht wrote:
I plan not to buy RA3 and to piss off EA I will not only not buy it but i will wast etheir bandwith by playing and purpsefully lagging games. Assholes, they deserve every wasted penny for what they've done to C&C.

That's cute and all, but you do understand your act of protest will go completely unnoticed to everybody except the few people who have read this topic on this forum?

As for what they have done to C&C? Well, CNC-3 was decent at the beginning, had a few flaws, but I found it to be quite fun.
Then they sorta fucked it up by listening to the faggots of GR.org and the other fake pr0s.

As for RA3, I would say it is the best CNC to date. Why? Because it is the first CNC (and 2nd RTS in general) game I was able to stomach online matches with random people.

I've played TS, RA2, Generals, ZH, YR, CNC3, RA3, Starcrap't and WiC online, and of those, only RA3 and WiC would keep me coming back if that was my only option (to play online, that is)

And if I can stomach an online game of RA3, then RA3 vs AI will kill days of my time.

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Lt Albrecht
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, so you can play it online against a random person... Big whoop, everyone has preferences, the problem with the old games are that people have been playing them for years and have narrowed down the tactics they use to such precision they know exactly where to place ther Warfactory, how many Refs/miners to build and who to exclude from gameplay to promote tank rushing, it's probably done by mathematical formulas as to who will win... And the balancing was never perfect in the old games anyways...The "pros" have moved on from TW to other games now, leaving normal gamers who actually play properly and have fun games, The RA3 Beta is open to few people and most of them won't be "progamers", meaning this is what you'll get when the pros move on to trash another games online gameplay for a while, then anothers etc... I have no problem with RA3, I have a problem with the fact ea seems to think this is a C&C when it's a cartoon with apparently fun gameplay.

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Sir Modsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

'bout frigging time they made it a no-CD game. That outweighs any DRM bullcrap to me.

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DaFool
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can play myself on LAN now because of the no-cd Smile

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Lamoot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
And again, if you do use up all five licenses for legitimate reasons, I want to stress that EA customer support will work with you to make things right.


Is this the kind of customer report we can expect?
clickity clik.

In other news, there is this RTS game called Sins of a solar Empire that has no DRM whatsoever and has sold half a million copies. Think again. No DRM. Has sold half a million copies.
Source

Not to forget some really wise words on how to properly get people not to pirate your games. Is there any way Corry will want to read this?
part 1
part 2
part 3

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Team SomeGuy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looked at the links and took notes.

I'll take those for when I am making my own games (or working someone else's game company).

A lot of those ideas are actually pretty good.

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am still beyond confusion as to why this is bad.

Besides "what if" scenarios, this is a great thing. I've said it before, the most recent no-CD game I own is Quake III. (well, Blizzard released a no-CD patch for Starcrap't, which I am using)

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Sir Modsalot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unreal Tournament 3 is no-CD to begin with, and UT2004 and my Sub Command simulator are switched to no-CD once you patch them. So you can see how I've gotten used to that.

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DaFool
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read the 20 sides dice, and the guy does have some valid points.

The publisher should offer something that the pirate can't. Little silver figurines, concept art books, or books of any type. You can't email the 200 page full colour manual over the net. You can't email collector figuriens, t-shirts, hats. Add something physical to the package.

The people who suffer the most imo are those without internet. They can't authorize their games, and they download pirated versions. They are left without a game.

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Bako'Ikaporamee
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Damn, didn't really know about the security measures RA3 will have. As much as I enjoy sheer and vast amounts of cheese, freaking DRMs and what-not is kinda deterring. I mean sure, piracy puts a hurt on profits and stuff, but games that don't have such extreme counter-measures and more friendly support can easily reduce the number.

Oh and:

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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Man Lamoot, that is one nice discussion you have there with EA. In reality, this really isn't a surprise from EA, they continue to play around with security protocols (and loving it, I'm sure), but this isn't half bad for the normal players. As far as not having internet access,, well, I'm sure everyone has some way of accessing the internet one way or another, whether it's from a friends house or work, I doubt anyone would be unable to at least play single player.

As far as the 5 installs? Let's just say I'm gonna be "busting some EA tech support balls" (pardon if my language offends you Rolling Eyes) after 5 months is over. Twisted Evil

EDITO: I don't see why they don't use Adobe's "seat" system, where you can have 5 installs at once, and every time you redo a computer you just de-register the game and re-register on the next install only using 1 install (I constantly do it)
Also - 500th post, woopdedoo >.>

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Daz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

4StarGeneral wrote:

EDITO: I don't see why they don't use Adobe's "seat" system, where you can have 5 installs at once, and every time you redo a computer you just de-register the game and re-register on the next install only using 1 install


They can do it with Securom, they released a tool for Bioshock to do that so I can't see why it isn't the standard now.

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Reaperrr
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: And the DRM from Red Alert 3 has been revealed. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Anyway, you need to get online to play the game for the first time, which might displease some users.


My gaming PC has no internet connection (and will never have), and I'm updating my hardware rather often. Reinstall OS from time to time as well.

This strict DRM isn't acceptable IMO, so no RA3 for me.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wrote that little quote thinking exactly about your situation, Reaperrr Wink.

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Sir Modsalot
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DaFool wrote:
The people who suffer the most imo are those without internet. They can't authorize their games, and they download pirated versions. They are left without a game.


Hang on a second. You said at first... "those without internet", then said that the same people would download a pirated copy. How would they do that without internet access? o_0

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DaFool
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to insert "can't".

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partyzanPaulZy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

7u6k1N EA policy, they produce overpriced games and they came with such ... #Mad

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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Location: Final Alert 2

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sir Modsalot wrote:
Hang on a second. You said at first... "those without internet", then said that the same people would download a pirated copy. How would they do that without internet access? o_0


Go to a friends house and download it there, burn it to a dvd, install on your computer.

And on the other end the same person buys a game with DRM and the only way I think it can be done is if they take their computer(the entire thing) to a friends house, install the network card, hook it up to the internet, install, unhook it, put the network card back in the other computer, then hook the computer back up at his house. I would much rather go with the first option. Removing the network card after validation might also void the install.

_________________
Comcast: Yo dawg we herd yo were downloading, so we put fail in yo modem so yo cant download while yo failin!

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Ixonoclast
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Location: Somewhere up high.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bleh. Guess I'll just go play free games than... like Dwarf Fortress.

Oh wait, Toady hasn't even programmed mouse support yet... FFFFFFFFFFFFF

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