Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:
PPM Voxel Competition 2008 results!
Subject description: After all the pc problems that I'm still having, I've managed to asemble them.
Hey everyone! First of all, we'd like to apologise the time took to get these results online. We've made a program to make it rated, calculate and published as quick and simple as possible. The problem failed when the pc that had this system suffered with several hardware problems refusing to turn on.
Then I tried to read its hard disk in another system, but my lovely Windows Vista refused to read it as well. In the last night, I've posted what I could remember, but I've made a heavy mess up by confusing the first place with the third and completely forgetting the winner. The Nod scorpion tank that I guessed as third was actually fourth place, which is close, but gets no prize.
The amount of submitted voxels was over 25, but most of them were variations of the same voxel. Some had different textures, others had more upgrades. I had to choose one of the variations, usually the one that fits the colour of the faction and had as many upgrades as possible. That left us with 11 official entries.
Anyway, we had 4 MARVs, but one was disqualified because the author (MadHQ) was unhappy with the rating system and he published his voxel before the results were published. Also, the vast majority of the units are based on the GDI ones. Anyway, here's the very quick results:
And you may be wondering... where are the screenshots, detailed ratings, etc? The detailed ratings are in the hard disk from my broken PC and I don't have Red Alert 2/Yuri's Revenge in this machine to take screenshots either. The entries are also in the other hard disk. I can retrieve some of them in the Inbox from PPM's Personal Messages, but the Hexapod is only at the other PC. So, I'd really appreciate if those who submitted it, could post their stuff here. QUICK_EDIT
congrats Machine. Seems like finally the apprentice has beaten his master
For just 2 days work i'm very happy with the second place too. I couldn't had hoped for more.
@Banshee: shall we write to you a PM with our address for the prizes?
Now i can't wait to see all the other voxels.
Here is my Hexapod
firinganimNE.gif
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firinganimS.gif
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walkanim.gif
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LKOhexapod.zip
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read the readme.txt inside the zip for more information
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:
Paranoia wrote:
Quote:
So, I'd really appreciate if those who submitted it, could post their stuff here.
I fail at reading.
Anyways here is my submission. It's a mix between the MARV and continuum's (at least I think the concept was for continuum) deployable mammoth tank.
The unit has an extra turret that wasn't released for the contest (it has a a deployed central artillery cannon; it's between the 2 dual-linked railguns).
It's meant to be used when the unit deploys, however I couldn't finish properly the deploy animation before the deadline (I'll finish when I get some free time) .
I hope you enjoy it, and also thanks, thanks a lot .
@LKO: Your entry is really nice, though I think you should make a shp of it and release it; voxels don't do justice to walkers (I was going to make a titan originally ).
EDIT: Uploaded the entry. What's wrong with me today?, first I fail at reading, then I forgot to upload the entry XD
Preview TS.png
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Preview RA2.PNG
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This ingame includes the soviet rhino's barrel, couldn't get a better preview since I didn't have access to RA2 at the time.
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
@Banshee: shall we write to you a PM with our address for the prizes?
Please do it, PM me your name and address (includes state, country and zip code). This information will be sent to Aaron Kaufman, who will send you guys the gifts. QUICK_EDIT
Machine where the D/L at?
And I am waiting for the rest. I hope they all post them. This comp is confusing _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Location: laptop? ... otherwise the Czech Republic -> south Moravia Posts: long int Posts;
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject:
Congratulations Machine (your pallete fits the best for GDI), Lin Kuei Ominae (and I thought nobody will do this complicated unit), Paranoia (so decent voxel and pretty nice), raminator and others.
So here goes my bunker version of the
GDI Maniac's Armed Recreational Vehicle
details probably screwed this a bit, also texture on this one is rather TS than TW,
read readme before putting in mod (OFFSET, FLH, art, rules, credit me note)
Also this version has only latest Autonormals with range=2,5 instead of older way (if I had more time, I could fix some messed normals).
Download (VXL section) containing all the versions:
http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/download.php?id=24773 _________________
Don't blame the others if you haven't checked your own (in)ability in the first case. QUICK_EDIT
I don't see how the results fit the vxls. I'm so glad I dropped out. The judges have no idea how to judge a comp, and this proves it! _________________ MadHQ's Graveyard - Click here!
(Permissions) - (F.A.Q.) QUICK_EDIT
how would your results look like?
1st MadHQ
2nd no one (prize goes to 1st)
3rd no one (prize goes to 1st)
Your an idiot Lin Kuei! Were have I said anywhere that my vxl was better then any of them? Your trying to say that I'm full of my self, witch I can be at times but what do you expect? I'm damn good at what I do. After 7 years of moding these games I would like to think I know alot about vxl/shp, So ya I pown!)
I'm just saying with the results I see in front of me, This vxl comp was terrible! The scores are off on so many levels.
This comp in total was a failure.
Like for example your vxl is good but it isnt 92%.... I has a nice walking animation, But thats about all it has for being good. Its really under-detailed, And the normals are poor. If anything I think you got more points for that awsome fireing animation you added... But then again... I dont know but I think this is a vxl comp... I guess im just crazy... _________________ MadHQ's Graveyard - Click here!
(Permissions) - (F.A.Q.) QUICK_EDIT
I don't see how the results fit the vxls. I'm so glad I dropped out. The judges have no idea how to judge a comp, and this proves it!
Would you mind giving reasons why you think so?
I had rated partyzans and your MARV the same, yours was better in terms of normals and colors (and subjectively looked better ingame), but his is much more detailed (a bit too detailed, imo) and follows the shape of the concept much more accurately (which I assume are the reasons why TB gave it such a high score).
The hybrid MARV just has the best look of all voxels, it just beats every other voxel in terms of in-game appearance, and it's the most original on top of that, since it's not simply based on a regular TW/KW unit.
And LKOs Hexapod beats everything else in terms of shape, and it's animated (very smoothly) which requires an extra amount of time and skill. If it wasn't for the shadow problems and some small clipping errors, it would have been a VERY close race between the two.
tbh I'm a bit surprised about the huge differences between the scores TB gave to ramis voxels, because to me they appeared very similar in most aspects, but then again he might have noticed something I have not. I guess things will become more clear once Banshee publishes the judges' comments. QUICK_EDIT
huhu results
i should have won coz i had 262 points in total
wont tell too much about the rating till i don´t know how the scores came together (eg points for normals, colors, etc)
screens and downloads tomorrow _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
how would your results look like?
1st MadHQ
2nd no one (prize goes to 1st)
3rd no one (prize goes to 1st)
Your an idiot Lin Kuei! Were have I said anywhere that my vxl was better then any of them?
you aren't able to see a joke, don't you? (*)
Imo you overreacted already with your disqualification.
And this -><- emoticon meant, that i didn't mentioned it serious.
This is an engine problem that it uses only the first frame of the hva anim to calculate the shadow and also that it draws the body shadow on the legs while it should be actually behind them. So it's not a problem/error of the voxel itself. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
That hexapod is the absolute damned coolest thing I have ever seen. _________________ "The thing about biology is that while it is really easy to kill a lot of something, it's a lot harder to kill all of something. And the survivors tend to be a lot tougher and pissed off." QUICK_EDIT
it´s totally ok that i´m not one of the first 3
but i´m really currious about the subscores
one thing i can tell for sure is that there are atleast 5 (heavily) overrated voxels...
i really nkow that it is hard to judge...
and though i have full respect for the judges...
there´s epic failure!
Hammerhead
animation displays only 2 of 4 frames but as you can clearly see in the 2nd pic it display 1and3 on the one chopperoo and 2and4 on the other chopperoo
the one in the middle is when you don´t use the artcode i submitted
and now the comparrision between voxelviewer (left) and hvabuilder (right) animation...
_________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr Last edited by raminator on Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
I'm not like against judge's decisions...but i do kinda disagree with the results, so i do see what MadHQ is coming at. Well done everyone though, they all look great . (Just my opinion btw, so don't flame me ) _________________ http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/files/tifansig1_copy_180.png[/img][/url] QUICK_EDIT
I can see perfect sense behind all the judges ratings, although i wouldn't completely agree on the rankings. I don't think two people would ever completely agree on which should be where in terms of ranking, thats the point of getting three judges. The point system could be improved. QUICK_EDIT
took a closer look at everything again...
and again i must say that there are tooo high scores given...
and rules were not exactly followed (that´s no fault by the entrant, more by judges)
if there´s a theme then it should be followed (see RA3 VXL Comp earlier this year and the judgement about gaffel´s submission)
so if TW/KW then no T or edited RA3 voxel (take a look at RA3 Comp and at this and you surely find...) _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere in Germany
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:
raminator wrote:
if there´s a theme then it should be followed (see RA3 VXL Comp earlier this year and the judgement about gaffel´s submission)
so if TW/KW then no T or edited RA3 voxel (take a look at RA3 Comp and at this and you surely find...)
The only voxel that *might* have some resemblance is Sheridans Predator with the RA3 hammer tank, but I'm not sure, and even if it was, there's enough difference IMO. And yeah, he didn't follow the concept most accurately, but it's not like he won or something...
If you're talking about the hybrid MARV, it's a hybrid between the MARV (KW) and a Westwoodian concept for a C&C3 mammoth tank. I don't see a problem here, in fact it was a welcome original entry, instead of just some 08/15 remake of a KW/TW unit. IMO "KW/TW-themed" doesn't necessarily mean it has to be an in-game unit, but I can feel you'll probably disagree again...
raminator wrote:
took a closer look at everything again...
and again i must say that there are tooo high scores given...
and rules were not exactly followed (that´s no fault by the entrant, more by judges)
ok, I'll say this only once:
a) I've never taken part in a voxel competition before, neither as voxeler nor as judge.
b) The only reason I applied as judge was that Banshee was in desperate need of judges, without judges there would have been no voxel competition at all. Actually I did fear something like this could happen, but I didn't want to get the comp cancelled only because I was too unsure to apply as a judge.
c) As you are aware, there was some time pressure involved. It was a bit of bad luck that Banshee didn't have the JudgePack ready earlier, 12 hours earlier and I would've had a whole Sunday more to test, leaving more time to rethink some decisions.
d) I didn't even know that there was an RA3 voxel competition in the past.
e) No matter how much you might consider my ratings too high or just wrong, I did my best to follow the rules (I'm talking about Banshees rating guideline he sent to us judges) as accurately as possible and be equally fair on every voxel.
f) If everyone was able to follow the rating guidelines 100% accurately the way intended and 100% objectively and completely ignore own opinions, competitions would need only 1 judge (and everyone would agree with the results).
But there's a saying that couldn't be more true, especially in this case: opinions are like a**holes, everybody got one.
With 10 judges, we'd probably have 7-10 different results in the Top 3, some voxels would get ratings ranging from 50 to 90, and so on. And everyone who submitted a voxel would probably disagree with the ratings of at least half of the judges, especially if he reached a lower score than he expected.
I think further discussions are pointless, since the results won't be changed. Next time I'm sure we'll have 3 judges again, different judges (rejoice my brothers, for I won't be one of them ) and more fleshed out rules with no differences between officially published and internal rating guidelines, and less time pressure. And either a theme that has no room for interpretation or no theme at all. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject:
Here's the comments I gave on the individual voxels. It might help explain some of the scores I gave
Quote:
HEXAPOD 89
I can tell a lot of thought and effort was put into this voxel. Awesome animation, good texture, and shading - could be a tad darker though to make it a little more menacing. Though I know you probably triple checked this voxel for errors, though in game the voxel bounds have created some visual distortion for your animation. The firing anims were icing on the cake, though unfortunately they don't affect your score.
Small MARV 56
Perhaps this may be your personal best, though it's lacking in areas that could only come through experience. The turret for example was the biggest flaw; the fact that there is no barrel section is even somewhat excusable, though what you should have done is put the turret on the Y axis line, and used TurretOffset in rules.ini to line it up correctly ingame. The turret always rotates with the Y axis in the center, and so yours actually rotates on the barrel.
Mad's MARV 0
Disqualified.
Scorpion Tank 73
Interesting use of voxel sections, most likely to make it easy to add/remove parts like the dozer blades and turret according to the user's preference.. it probably made your job easier to slant the straight section than to build a slanted one layer by layer - gave you a few competence points for this, though it's not a technique I'd use a great deal. I see some attention to detail and texture, and that it's non symetrical shows you put a little extra into this. It acually reminds me of how I used to make voxels. There's a little too much contrast between the bright red & white and the dark black, and whereas it follows the concept, it doesn't look as good ingame, where the rubber meets the road.
Hammerhead 47
Very limited use of shading, and color variety. I gave some points for a decent voxel shape, though my biggest disappointment was the HVA animation, which seems to be a bit off center, and shows below the main section ingame.
Giant MARV 92
Holy guacamole, INCREDIBLE detail, my friend! You've practically followed the MARV's design to the letter. This voxel would have gotten first, but for two reasons:
1: It's just too big (competence. I know that this size makes it more realistic, though you have to remember the engine you're making it for. It will visually crowd out adjacent units, especially when selecting the unit with a group of others. Also since the selection box takes up about 1/3 of the unit, it is a bit harder to find.
2: The detailing is too fine. I know you probably put a lot of effort into this, though using dark outline to contrast light surfaces on a voxel to the extent that you have will turn these details to look pixely in the game. A little smoother, and about 2/3 as big, and I would have rated this voxel 1st.
Predator Tank 57
What appears to be an interesting mix of the turret from the concept art, and reverse of the mammoth tank's treads. There's no shading, no texture, and the shape is very plain, save for a few minor details here and there. Keep practicing
Slingshot 62
Practically no texturing whatsoever, hardly any color variety and a lot of contrast between light and dark, these things make it look pretty cartooney. I'll give you some points on the turret, as the angles probably took some time to do, however there's a lot of detail missing here, and it cost some points.
Shatterer 45
Practically no texture whatsoever, hardly any color variety save for the 1 shade of light blue on the gun. Needs much, much improvement.
Hybrid MARV 100
I see that you took some liberties with the concept art and other units, and where it's not exactly a unit we see in C&C3/KW, there are a number of melded designs from a few of different units. What I like most about this voxel is that although it's a hardcore unit, it is still within a practical size for RA2 and borderline practical for TS. It has great detail and shading, though it's also done moderately enough to recognize the actual quality that the voxel is given in the game. (in other words, you didn't overdo it). Congrats, anonomous
Mammoth tank 78
A nice recreation of C&C3's mammoth tank. Good shape and scale, decent detail. It could use more shading and/or hilighting on the texture that would give this voxel better quality. try to blend the dark outlines into the light surfaces for a good effect.
Keep in mind that 3 voxels were given a bonus of 5 points.
If anyone is dissatisfied, I apologize, I did my best to rate honestly and unbiased. Obviously some people are going to be unhappy with the results, and I won't pretend to try and please everybody.
I will admit to the error I made on judging Rami's Hammerhead, as the animation was too fast ingame to really look at, and I never had a reason until now to think that the hva builder might be off kilter on the animation sometimes.
Even so, it would not have affected the final lineup of the top 3, which is really what matters the most. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
ppl are so overreacting about how wack this comp is it is getting ridicilus.
This comp was good, very good voxels came out _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
it´s totally ok that i´m not one of the first 3
and though i have full respect for the judges...
there´s epic failure!
and to my "lack of colour usage"
I always prefer clean voxels that are clearly visible and not just fucked up by a texture...
but that´s my view and not yours _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
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